Barrel TQ and Headspace Crush Measurements

[kthomas]

Its like watching a nigerian scam interaction unfold right before my eyes - what is even happening?

What's the scam?

 

[Tacticalintervention]

Mike has explained to me many times how he does it. I am not a smith so I can not address those questions with expertise . Just ability of the rifle and the fit and finish. Every claim he has made to those have been more than met by his work

he is truly a craftsman and nice guy

Everyone has levels of knowledge on certain subjects. Just because you do something for a living does not mean you know everything or every way to do something

I once had a guy tell me the way I switched my barrels on my Tubb 2K was not the correct way. Rather than argue I just reminded him I just kicked his ass with that rifle changing barrels that way.

 

[dnellans]

What's the scam?

Thats what I can't figure out, this is some next level shit! New guy shows up to site for 2-4 posts ever to tout rifles in a mile long thread, prompted by other guy who appears to be a professional aggitator.

I presume at some point I'll be asked to give them my social security number so that Mike from TacOps can send me a free rifle to test for myself!

 

[Tacticalintervention]

How can we -really- know this isn't FGuffy in disguise.... Does TacOps measure 2 millionths with feeler guages? Only the true puppet master knows the answer to that question!

This Mike Miller Period dot
I invented the Quick Cuff sling.
I owned and ran Tactical Intervention Specialists for over twenty years. I wrote a ton of reviews back in the day. I got tired of arguing with net tough guys and retired to Florida

if you need more I will gladly talk to you when I get back to Florida from visiting my new Grandson in Texas next week. Just PM me and I will give you the phone number. It’s the same one I used for TIS for a decade

 

[kthomas]

Thats what I can't figure out, this is some next level shit! New guy shows up to site for 2-4 posts ever to tout rifles in a mile long thread, prompted by other guy who appears to be a professional aggitator.

I presume at some point I'll be asked to give them my social security number so that Mike from TacOps can send me a free rifle to test for myself!



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You sure seem eager to throw out accusations.

Have you personally dealt with TacOps? Have you ever handled a TacOps? If not, why are you throwing out all of these accusations and screaming scam?

 

[Tacticalintervention]

I joined here in 2009. Hardly a FNG

 

[Tokay444]

How can we -really- know this isn't FGuffy in disguise.... Does TacOps measure 2 millionths with feeler guages? Only the true puppet master knows the answer to that question!

Tac Ops doesn’t measured to 2 millionths, for the 3rd or 4th time now. It’s was Krieger, and they sent it to a 3rd party metrology lab. It’s the only Krieger barrel in Tac Ops history to not shoot Mike’s guarantee or better.

 

[Tokay444]

Thats what I can't figure out, this is some next level shit! New guy shows up to site for 2-4 posts ever to tout rifles in a mile long thread, prompted by other guy who appears to be a professional aggitator.

I presume at some point I'll be asked to give them my social security number so that Mike from TacOps can send me a free rifle to test for myself!



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Lol!! That’s the bungee cord bipod guy. You side with him all you want. He’ll tell you you can’t win if you don’t cut kernels and weigh to .001gr, after you’ve just beaten him never having done either.

 

[dnellans]

Tac Ops doesn’t measured to 2 millionths, for the 3rd or 4th time now. It’s was Kreiger, and they sent it to a 3rd party metrology lab. It’s the only Kreiger barrel in Tac Ops history to not shoot Mike’s guarantee or better.

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving, I'm so glad Dusty suggested I wait around a little longer.

Given that Tac-ops website says they use all kreiger barrels - we've now up'd our claim that its the only barrel in tac-ops history to not shoot .250 or better. Amazing stuff I tell you

 

[Tokay444]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving, I'm so glad Dusty suggested I wait around a little longer.

Given that Tac-ops website says they use all kreiger barrels - we've now up'd our claim that its the only barrel in tac-ops history to not shoot .250 or better. Amazing stuff I tell you

For the reading impaired, the barrel Krieger sent to the metrology was the only barrel they’ve ever delivered to Tac Ops that didn’t meet his accuracy guarantee, which was why it was sent there in the first place!

 

[dnellans]

For the reading impaired, the barrel Kreiger sent to the metrology was the only barrel they’ve ever delivered to Tac Ops that didn’t meet his accuracy guarantee, which was why it was sent there in the first place!

Right - comm'on and use your engineer powers of deduction here... and since he only uses krieger barrels in his builds, thus he has only ever recieved and built a single rifle in the company's history that didn't shoot .250

 

[Tokay444]

That was THE ONLY barrel he’s gotten from Krieger that didn’t deliver on his guarantee, and that was determined to be the barrel. The end.

 

[CharlieNC]

With all of the hoopla going on in this thread it took 30min of research to find many, many amateur and professional reviews backing up the 1/4moa guarantee using factory ammo. Techniques, measurements, who cares with a huge track record of success?

 

[kthomas]

With all of the hoopla going on in this thread it took 30min of research to find many, many amateur and professional reviews backing up the 1/4moa guarantee using factory ammo. Techniques, measurements, who cares with a huge track record of success?

Apparently its a lot easier to just talk trash about a company and product that you don't have experience with, then to look up actual results and reputation of a company and its product (this comment obviously not directed at you).

This is why the internet sucks, because talk is cheap, and people are quick to impose their judgement when they have zero experience on the matter at hand.

 

[DirtySteve]

Their accuracy guarantee is usually 3/8" or 1/2", depending on the model.

My mistake I did that from memory..

 

[darkangel_r2]

Rifle Accuracy Facts Full V 1.0 ( First Full Scan) : Harold R. Vaughn : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The author, who spent his career studying trajectories of nuclear missles and artillery shells, wrote this work after becoming dissatisfied with the accuracy...

archive.org

Vaughn's chapter on threads for any who are interested.

Having read through most of the snipershide posts about these rifles they appear to be excellent quality and I didn't see a bad word said against them other than the price. To function as advertised their custom work on these rifle would have to drastically reduce barrel harmonics and cure bullet alignment issues. This is not impossible and would certainly explain the price tag.

Tactical Operations Response (UPDATE - 1/22/08)

We at Tactical Operations have been "called out", and our integrity is in question. We have heard statements that our quarter minute guarantee is 100% B.S. and that the procedure of building precision rifles is done exactly the same by everyone. Some of debate became blatant personal...

www.sniperforums.com

They make reference to barrel harmonics a few times in the post above so he at least knows about it. So its possible his machining and build philosophy targeted its minimization. If his reamer has crush fit on a loaded round and jam on the bullets (or extremely close to both) its possible his claims are true. Part of it is probably definitions though. Will it produce a 1/4 moa average groups size for 3 shots? Or will it produce a couple 1/4 moa groups out of a box of 20? How many rounds does it have this guarantee? For 7k your great great grandson better be rebarreling my great great grandson's 308 for free.

That being said I still doubt it. If it was sold as a complete system with scope, base, bipod ect..., and you not being able to choose barrel length I'd be more inclined to believe it. They are without a doubt fine rifles though.

 

[memilanuk]

How can we -really- know this isn't FGuffy in disguise...

Because Mike Miller is a stand-up guy, and has other folks to vouch for him.

If you disagree with what he says, fine, that's your prerogative. Tossing around terms like 'Nigerian scam' 'sock puppet' or even worse 'FGuffy' is uncalled for.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I don’t post on net much anymore because once the arguing starts I just say good luck and move on but I probably have more time with TacOps rifles than most of this group combined.
I was a cop 25 years and worked as a sniper and sniper instructor for longer than that
I used to be a moderator on Snipers Hide and years ago Tac Ops was attacked on there
I personally did not believe the guarantee and told Mike R that back then. Mike said I will build you a rifle and you shoot it. If it does not shoot like I claim with Federal Match ammo I will give you every cent back and keep the rifle.
I took him up on the offer

when it arrived I took it out and shot one five shot under .25 moa group after another at 100 yards. Witnessed by another cop sent by Mike to make sure I gave it an honest review

that rifle was the most accurate rifle with factory ammo I have ever shot. I have seen and shot many of Mikes Rifles and they all perform that way

I made my living with a rifle and then competed in National and World Championship Events doing well most of the time. Not the best shooter around but I know good rifles when I shoot them TacOps are the best

Do you still compete with a tac ops rifle in ftr?

 

[kthomas]

Do you still compete with a tac ops rifle in ftr?

I don't believe Mike has competed in FTR with his TacOps, the rifle is not setup for that style of shooting. They are built to be "working" guns.

I believe Mike's FTR rifle was a GAP that was specifically built for that purpose.

This is from what I recall from a conversation I had with Mike on another forum, but I'll let Mike correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstood.