Bad move AutoZone
- Thread starter jayded1
- Start date
Geeman said:
Your woeful spelling aside, there's no logic to your argument, just generalizations. Having dead customers and dead employees on the floor -- as you put it -- is a FAR worse outcome than having a dead (or wounded) criminal on the floor. Imagine the trauma of the families and friends of the innocent victims, knowing the dead were prevented from protecting themselves out of fear of losing their jobs.
The law-abiding are at a HUGE disadvantage by being law-abiding. The Luby's diner massacre could have, and SHOULD HAVE, been mitigated by an armed employee or customer. Like the customer who left her handgun in her car (because she's law-abiding) and then watched while the killer murdered both of her parents.
You, like so many who don't trust their fellow man, equate actions with the lowest common denominator, i.e. the "cowboy" or some other lunkhead. Imagine instead if Brian Enos were the employee, and ten armed bad guys were in the store. Who's likely to emerge in the standing position? I'm betting on Brian, thanks. And I'm betting on my fellow man to be a hero, rather than a scumbag or moron.
As long as there are criminals in the world, then the citizenry should be obliged to protect itself. And if there are no criminals in the world, then all the more justification for the citizenry to carry arms as they wish.
IMO, many here are missing out on WHO gave us these rights we are talking about.
We did NOT get them from our government nor did the constitution give us these rights......
These rights came from God ...........according to the Declaration of Independence.
I'm not Bible thumping here although it could be done.
Not the congress, senate, or supreme court.........GOD gave us these rights.
The CONSTITUTION just recognizes these rights.
If the government has the power to give rights, it also has the power to take them away.
Over a LONG period of time we have allowed the government to restrict our GOD given freedom to the point where I have to have a permit to work on MY OWN HOUSE and such stupid things like that.
Not to mention the gun thing we're talking about now.
How much longer is this going to go on?
Until we have given the government permission to TAKE all our GOD given rights away?
They are usurping authority that isn't their's to have.......unless we lay down and GIVE it to them.
That is one of the biggest problems with democracy......Majority rule.
A Republic.....which is what the United States began as.....protects INDIVIDUAL rights....in SPITE of the majority.
Look how far we've come from the foundation of this country.
VERY SAD day!!!!
We did NOT get them from our government nor did the constitution give us these rights......
These rights came from God ...........according to the Declaration of Independence.
I'm not Bible thumping here although it could be done.
Not the congress, senate, or supreme court.........GOD gave us these rights.
The CONSTITUTION just recognizes these rights.
If the government has the power to give rights, it also has the power to take them away.
Over a LONG period of time we have allowed the government to restrict our GOD given freedom to the point where I have to have a permit to work on MY OWN HOUSE and such stupid things like that.
Not to mention the gun thing we're talking about now.
How much longer is this going to go on?
Until we have given the government permission to TAKE all our GOD given rights away?
They are usurping authority that isn't their's to have.......unless we lay down and GIVE it to them.
That is one of the biggest problems with democracy......Majority rule.
A Republic.....which is what the United States began as.....protects INDIVIDUAL rights....in SPITE of the majority.
Look how far we've come from the foundation of this country.
VERY SAD day!!!!
bowfisher
Silver $$ Contributor
Tozguy said:
What would have happened instead?
[/quote]
Not sure if you are being serious or just trying to bait me, but even if the Islamist deactivated the crew, they would have never been allowed to steer into the buildings like they did. Probably would have been similar to the PA flight were INDIVIDUALS gathered real time info and decided on a course of action to rectify the problem. They succeeded where trillions of dollars of gov't bureaucracies failed miserably. That's what would have happened.
Tozguy said:
Because it's a lousy "gotcha" question.......If you answer mine, I'll answer yours.
Since when has the government had the power to regulate God's authority? No bible stuff.......strictly common sense and the founding father's ideology.
Tozguy said:
Interesting to whom? You? Why is the pilot in your hypothetical situation any more trustworthy than anybody else? Why aren't teachers allowed to carry guns while on the job, when they are responsible for the care of the students in their charge? Why are police officers who visit classrooms typically packing firearms (including in their cars)? Is it because cops are more trustworthy than teachers?
A determined scumbag criminal, like the murdering thugs on 9/11, knows that the vast majority of other people are law-abiding, and thus not equipped to fight back. A wolf among sheep.
So here's an answer to your silly question: The pilot would ABSOLUTELY be okay with each and every person on that aircraft being armed, heavily.
Want proof? Look at a military flight carrying paratroopers going into a hot LZ.
As to the murdering thugs from 9/11, they wouldn't have boarded a flight knowing full well that many if not all of the passengers were carrying. That's what would (not) have happened.
Let's use some liberal "logic". Don't agree with abortion? Don't have one. Don't like CCW? Don't have one.
bowfisher said:
Not sure if you are being serious or just trying to bait me, but even if the Islamist deactivated the crew, they would have never been allowed to steer into the buildings like they did. Probably would have been similar to the PA flight were INDIVIDUALS gathered real time info and decided on a course of action to rectify the problem. They succeeded where trillions of dollars of gov't bureaucracies failed miserably. That's what would have happened.
[/quote]
Bow, No I'm not trying to bait you. My question was sincere. Thanks for the answer.
So here's an answer to your silly question: The pilot would ABSOLUTELY be okay with each and every person on that aircraft being armed, heavily. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gambleone
Silver $$ Contributor
Just as BoydAllen pointed out, there are a whole different set of circumstances between passengers in an enclosed space in the air & people walking in & out of autozone. The airplane question is too generalized to be able to answer specifically. If I were in a plane an there was a terrorist on it, I would be hoping someone on the plane was armed...
There is no arguement from me about the natural right to defend ourselves. However it is far from obvious to me that that 'right' should translate into allowing anyone and everyone to carry a firearm anywhere anytime without discrimination.
The question was as specific as it gets. Sure it would be easier to answer IF we knew ahead of time what was going to happen. But none of us really know. Decisions have to be made just the same. Where do we draw the line on carry in public in everybody's best interest?
The question was as specific as it gets. Sure it would be easier to answer IF we knew ahead of time what was going to happen. But none of us really know. Decisions have to be made just the same. Where do we draw the line on carry in public in everybody's best interest?
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I think that you can use the states that have the least restrictions on guns and issuance of concealed carry permits as indicators of the effects that these policies would have if they became more widespread.
Ultimately, no law has much of an effect on the criminal class, unless is a sentencing requirement, and those require that they be apprehended, tried and convicted before they do that.
For criminals who have not been apprehended , overly restrictive gun laws produce a significant tactical advantage.
It should also be pointed out that a tactic of argument is to misstate or exaggerate the position of one's opponent and to argue against those distortions rather than the real position that has been expressed. This may make for good entertainment, but it is not constructive for finding workable solutions to real problems.
IMO the real problem is that significant numbers of voters have not recognized that further restriction of the freedom of the law abiding, by passing new laws, does nothing to restrict criminals, and only endangers and reduces the quality of life of those whose intention is to make an honest living and abide by the law. You can blame the politicians, but ultimately, they could not exist without voters who support them. This leaves us with the long term task of educating a significant segment of our country's population who have been lead down various garden paths by leaders that find it easier to sell lies than the truth.
Ultimately, no law has much of an effect on the criminal class, unless is a sentencing requirement, and those require that they be apprehended, tried and convicted before they do that.
For criminals who have not been apprehended , overly restrictive gun laws produce a significant tactical advantage.
It should also be pointed out that a tactic of argument is to misstate or exaggerate the position of one's opponent and to argue against those distortions rather than the real position that has been expressed. This may make for good entertainment, but it is not constructive for finding workable solutions to real problems.
IMO the real problem is that significant numbers of voters have not recognized that further restriction of the freedom of the law abiding, by passing new laws, does nothing to restrict criminals, and only endangers and reduces the quality of life of those whose intention is to make an honest living and abide by the law. You can blame the politicians, but ultimately, they could not exist without voters who support them. This leaves us with the long term task of educating a significant segment of our country's population who have been lead down various garden paths by leaders that find it easier to sell lies than the truth.
If you don't want to carry...........THEN DON'T!!! NO ONE IS TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO CARRY!!!
BUT THAT ISN'T MY CHOICE!!!!
I CHOOSE TO CARRY!!!
Don't try to FORCE your choice on the rest of us!
Your type of people and the way you think are all about choice when it's to your advantage......when it goes against your wishes then choice must be taken away from everyone else that goes against your will.
Then people that think that way wonder why people like us get upset.....
Don't be trying to act like you're on our side now either......you've played your hand for all to see.
Middle aged fat white men, eh? Should be more afraid of dying of a heart attack?
Now who's doing the stereo typing?
And you want us to think you are one of us?
Sure buddy.....sure. You're way of thinking is a PERFECT example of what's went wrong in this country.
BUT THAT ISN'T MY CHOICE!!!!
I CHOOSE TO CARRY!!!
Don't try to FORCE your choice on the rest of us!
Your type of people and the way you think are all about choice when it's to your advantage......when it goes against your wishes then choice must be taken away from everyone else that goes against your will.
Then people that think that way wonder why people like us get upset.....
Don't be trying to act like you're on our side now either......you've played your hand for all to see.
Middle aged fat white men, eh? Should be more afraid of dying of a heart attack?
Now who's doing the stereo typing?
And you want us to think you are one of us?
Sure buddy.....sure. You're way of thinking is a PERFECT example of what's went wrong in this country.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
In California, getting a concealed weapons permit is a process that requires education, and proficiency, and allows time to verify application information pertaining to eligibility. I cannot think of a single report of a crime in which the person who was suspected, arrested for, or convicted of committing it was said to have used pistol that was on his permit. There may have been some, but I am not aware of any. The problems that we have are mostly because police chiefs have been allowed to make law in regard to their policies regarding permit issuance. My guess is that it is the reaction to this sort of restriction being placed on qualified applicants that has resulted in a number of states passing shall issue laws.
While I agree that unnecessary use of extreme rhetoric in public discussions may tend to polarize the uncommitted listener to a position that is not the intent of the person making the statement, I think that discussions that convey information that may not be common knowledge, or respectfully disagree with statements that are not fact based, or which intentionally distort, may be useful. All in all, I think that presenting one's self in a state of extreme emotion is usually a recipe for being on the loosing side of any argument/discussion, and tends to convey the impression that the person is not sufficiently prepared to argue his position on the basis of factual information.
While I agree that unnecessary use of extreme rhetoric in public discussions may tend to polarize the uncommitted listener to a position that is not the intent of the person making the statement, I think that discussions that convey information that may not be common knowledge, or respectfully disagree with statements that are not fact based, or which intentionally distort, may be useful. All in all, I think that presenting one's self in a state of extreme emotion is usually a recipe for being on the loosing side of any argument/discussion, and tends to convey the impression that the person is not sufficiently prepared to argue his position on the basis of factual information.
BigDMT
I do all my own mechanical work so I hope me NOT shopping at AutoZone anymore hurts them well enough 
One short comment on the concealed carry. It's a right we've fought and died for in this country, if you want to carry go ahead, I do. If you don't, that's fine too, just don't bash the folks that do because they may end up saving your life one day.
Mr. stinnett1981,
Not all muggers are going to just take your valuables, then let you walk away with your life. Think about that sir. Some criminals are much more evil and sadistic than that. Did you know that most gang members can not move up in there "ranks" (or whatever you want to call it) until they have killed someone? Perhaps you will become a gang member's stepping stone for the ranks some day.....you never know. And maybe a co-worker with a concealed carry weapon will save your life in that situation.....you never know.
And just because you carry a concealed weapon does not mean that you have to be a "hero" and DRAW your weapon every time you see a person getting their money taken or if a gang member decides to rob you. But a weapon sure is nice to have if you are 100% sure that the person robbing you intends to kill you. As a matter of fact, anybody who knows anything about being a responsible concealed weapon permit holder should know that A GUN IS NEVER TO BE DRAWN UNLESS YOU ARE 100% SURE YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER. Not that you are mad or someone is trying to break your nose with punches, that won't kill you and you can be imprisoned as a criminal for drawing a weapon in a "non-life threatening situation". They don't just hand these permits out, if there's any reason they feel a person is not competent or qualified to carry, they won't give them their permit.
Say a criminal makes you get in your car and drive to an ATM, take out money, then drive down to the river make you get out and start your car on fire... That's a pretty sure bet that you aren't going to be around much longer. It's happened too many times in society to rule it out as a possibility.
But regardless, it's still a person's choice to carry or not.
One short comment on the concealed carry. It's a right we've fought and died for in this country, if you want to carry go ahead, I do. If you don't, that's fine too, just don't bash the folks that do because they may end up saving your life one day.
Mr. stinnett1981,
Not all muggers are going to just take your valuables, then let you walk away with your life. Think about that sir. Some criminals are much more evil and sadistic than that. Did you know that most gang members can not move up in there "ranks" (or whatever you want to call it) until they have killed someone? Perhaps you will become a gang member's stepping stone for the ranks some day.....you never know. And maybe a co-worker with a concealed carry weapon will save your life in that situation.....you never know.
And just because you carry a concealed weapon does not mean that you have to be a "hero" and DRAW your weapon every time you see a person getting their money taken or if a gang member decides to rob you. But a weapon sure is nice to have if you are 100% sure that the person robbing you intends to kill you. As a matter of fact, anybody who knows anything about being a responsible concealed weapon permit holder should know that A GUN IS NEVER TO BE DRAWN UNLESS YOU ARE 100% SURE YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER. Not that you are mad or someone is trying to break your nose with punches, that won't kill you and you can be imprisoned as a criminal for drawing a weapon in a "non-life threatening situation". They don't just hand these permits out, if there's any reason they feel a person is not competent or qualified to carry, they won't give them their permit.
Say a criminal makes you get in your car and drive to an ATM, take out money, then drive down to the river make you get out and start your car on fire... That's a pretty sure bet that you aren't going to be around much longer. It's happened too many times in society to rule it out as a possibility.
But regardless, it's still a person's choice to carry or not.
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