Asking for a friend, your opinions, insight

[jackieschmidt]

This video come across as a little bit “holier than thou”, but he does know what he is talking about when it comes to cleanly killing game at over 500 yards.

 

[br1111]

This video come across as a little bit “holier than thou”, but he does know what he is talking about when it comes to cleanly killing game at over 500 yards.

very well said!

 

[butchlambert]

300 Ultra Mag, a good stock, and a March or Schmidt&Bender scope.

 

[tsyarnall]

Well, first, I haven’t used the Nosler ammo. That makes it impossible to give any opinion about it, but it does look like a good hunting bullet. Second, I was going by my experience based on the OP’s criteria, as I understood them, lower recoil and would like the ability to make 700 yard kills. I was giving my opinion from the position of a person that has moderate to server chronic neck pain and has experience shooting heavy recoil inducing rifles. The conditions would have to be near perfect for me to take a 400 yard shot, much less a 700 yard shot. I would love to hear other people’s opinions that have chronic neck pain and shoot magnum rifles.
Now, that aside, it amazes me the number of people who try to demean someone that doesn’t say what they want to hear. This society has gotten to the point to where it wants to shutdown anyone that doesn’t believe or think the way they do. If you have chronic neck pain and have experience shooting magnum rifles, I’d love to hear your opinion on this subject. And, if you don’t think as I do, I promise, I won’t try to shut you down or disparage you. It’s an opinion........

Scott

 

[mensajd]

The beauty of living in the internet connected, handheld computer age (yes ARMv8 64-bit multi-core devices in phones are powerful computers) is that you don't have to argue over stupid stuff that you could simply look up. Similarly, pick a bullet, look at achievable velocity in the cartridge under observation, and model it using one of the many inexpensive or free ballistic solvers. Each person has to figure out their priority constraints - recoil, BC, velocity, terminal kinetic energy, whatever, but this is rocket science made simple. There is no need to empirically resolve every possible case. In fact, that's stupid.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

6.5x284 is one of my favorite cartridges but no matter how it looks on paper its not enough. Thats from experience of using them for hunting deer and plains animals for probably 15+ years with me and my dad both using them. From 300-350 yds in they work great. One advantage they have is being able to hit what you aim at that far but killing power is not there

 

[antelopedundee]

6.5-284 or 6.5-06 will meet his requirements. The latter is easier to make feed in a variety of actions. Good energy at longer ranges and a larger diameter bullet kills better than 6mm. Also much less recoil than a 7mm Mag. If he just can't take the recoil of a 6.5, the 6-06 as mentioned above would be his best choice in a 6mm. -- .240 Wby. and 6-284 are virtually identical to the 6-06, but the longer neck of the '06 case is better for the long VLD bullets than the .284 case, feeds better and easily made from .25-06 brass. .240 brass is scarce, expensive and a belted case which is not necessary on an '06 size case.

A Pachmayr Decel pad will tame the recoil of a 6.5-06 purty good.

 

[matthias]

I recently built just the rifle for this question.
Roger m77mk2 kreiger 31" barrel in 264 win mag. Pushes 130 Barnes tsx 3350 with a middle of the road published load. Recoil is manageable, handling it is a bit of a chore due to the length. But it is a shooter and makes the 6.5 bullets scream all the way to the target.

I have not had a chance to use it on heavier game but prairie dogs it seems to penetrate and expand well.

 

[JEFFPPC]

One thing to take note of with 6.5 bullets is they got their reputation as hunting cartridges with long 160, 170 gr bullets offering great penetration due to the sectional density. Once you pass 500 yds bullet weight becomes a bigger factor in retaining bullet energy. Something to consider when choosing a long range hunting round.

 

[Racebannon3855]

Snert,

I went down a similar road in upstate NY. We used to get lots of doe tags so I built a tower blind in a field where I could shoot past 600 with a good backstop. This spring we had a windstorm that wiped out half the hemlocks that made up my backstop and my tower blind and we don't get doe tags anymore so....

I went with a tang safety Ruger 77 6 mm Remington Ackley that I bought on here. Worried about barrel life I stuck to 115 gr Berger VLD Hunting bullets and never got it hot. The barrel is a 1:8 Pac-Nor that is 27.5" long. Using a 6.5-20 Leupold with side focus and a Varmnt Hunters reticle the 115 at a little over 3200 fps matches the reticle. My range is 250 yards and I have shot several 3 shot one inch groups at 250. Once I did that I stopped shoting groups and went to shooting cold bore with a range finder out to 600. The Pac-Nor is around 600 rounds and still a hammer.

Regarding how it works on game, fantastic. The 115 always exits on chest shots from 175 out to 586. The deer at 586 was a 179# buck, made a mess of his lungs and still exited. Previous to this I shot a 300 Win Mag with 165 Sierra Game Kings. The 115 Berger ruins less meat and is more fun to practice with. (I inherited a 7 mag that shoots great and I left that where I hunt in Texas, a 7 Rem Mag is not a bad choice. It is a real Sendero hammer with 160 gr Game Kings.)

I had great success picking out the old barren does and filling the freezer. I cannot stress enough how much time it takes to get cold bore confident out past 500. You have to believe in your range finder and your abillity to judge the wind. After all the time I put into this rig I should sell it, no more need for it. Going back to still hunting.

Good Luck!

 

[butchlambert]

The beauty of living in the internet connected, handheld computer age (yes ARMv8 64-bit multi-core devices in phones are powerful computers) is that you don't have to argue over stupid stuff that you could simply look up. Similarly, pick a bullet, look at achievable velocity in the cartridge under observation, and model it using one of the many inexpensive or free ballistic solvers. Each person has to figure out their priority constraints - recoil, BC, velocity, terminal kinetic energy, whatever, but this is rocket science made simple. There is no need to empirically resolve every possible case. In fact, that's stupid.

Science trumps all? Chuckle chuckle

 

[butchlambert]

Well, first, I haven’t used the Nosler ammo. That makes it impossible to give any opinion about it, but it does look like a good hunting bullet. Second, I was going by my experience based on the OP’s criteria, as I understood them, lower recoil and would like the ability to make 700 yard kills. I was giving my opinion from the position of a person that has moderate to server chronic neck pain and has experience shooting heavy recoil inducing rifles. The conditions would have to be near perfect for me to take a 400 yard shot, much less a 700 yard shot. I would love to hear other people’s opinions that have chronic neck pain and shoot magnum rifles.
Now, that aside, it amazes me the number of people who try to demean someone that doesn’t say what they want to hear. This society has gotten to the point to where it wants to shutdown anyone that doesn’t believe or think the way they do. If you have chronic neck pain and have experience shooting magnum rifles, I’d love to hear your opinion on this subject. And, if you don’t think as I do, I promise, I won’t try to shut you down or disparage you. It’s an opinion........

Scott

Scott, I've had 3 neck and 2 back surgeries. I have no pain now. The 300RUM is great with a good brake, recoil pad, and hearing protection. My personal limit is 300yds unless it is a hog.

 

[mensajd]

Science trumps all? Chuckle chuckle

Tested hypothesis? Sure. That's called scientific method. The fact that your computer even works relies on this.

 

[tsyarnall]

Scott, I've had 3 neck and 2 back surgeries. I have no pain now. The 300RUM is great with a good brake, recoil pad, and hearing protection. My personal limit is 300yds unless it is a hog.

And that is mine and, yes, no limit on ferrel hogs. I wish my neck was as good as yours, but I’m not going to do it again for that possibility.

 

[joshb]

Hows about a 45/70 Siamese Mauser. Fairly inexpensive guns. Capable of launching 500 grain bullets at near 458 Win Mag velocities.

 

[antelopedundee]

One thing to take note of with 6.5 bullets is they got their reputation as hunting cartridges with long 160, 170 gr bullets offering great penetration due to the sectional density. Once you pass 500 yds bullet weight becomes a bigger factor in retaining bullet energy. Something to consider when choosing a long range hunting round.

So to kill a deer with one of those pencil bullets at 700 yards you'd need a 6 twist barrel to get it there accurately?

 

[hogpatrol]

Snert, my 2¢: 26 Nosler launching 130 HVLDs or 28 Nosler with 168 HVLDs. RL 33 in both. Put a Beast brake on it and shoot it off of your chin. What wind? Those bullets out of those rifles get there in a hurry. The worst drift I've seen is six inches in a 20 mph steady 90 degree crosswind. BTDT multiple times and both have enough juice to 1000 for deer and other larger animals. As far as getting closer? Get down on your hands and knees, slink through the old termite mounds, maybe a few waitabits, and just hope a Cape cobra or puff adder isn't somewhere in between you and the hundred yard shot. I'll take that shot at 500 plus, thank you. From this chair, the aim of hunting is to take the animal without it knowing you are there. It makes no difference to the animal if I'm five yards or a thousand yards. YMMV.

 

[INTJ]

A 30-06 would cleanly take deer at 700 yds. 300 WSM would add a little more velocity with minimal increase in recoil. 300 Win would excel here as well as would a 300 Ack, 30 Nosler, 300 Wby.

I am not a 7mm guy but anything from the 280 Rem and up would work well. I am not a 6.5 guy but many of those would work too. A .270 would also work but I am not sure of the longer hunting bullet availability for a .270.

However, WAY more important than the cartridge chosen is the rifle. It ought to weigh 10-12 lbs with a scope and have a stock set up to shoot well off bags. It also needs a good scope that dials well like a NF NXS in say 5-22 power.

Then an accurate and repeatable load needs to be developed and a lot of time needs to be spent shooting the rifle to make sure the shooter knows the impact at various ranges. Otherwise shots should be limited to 300-400 yds.

 

[jonbearman]

Why would you need a 700 yard shot anyways . In new york the average shot is under a 100 yards anyway. I get it but I think it is a little over ambitious but the 30-06 will do the job easily with 150 grain bullets. Our deer run around 165 pounds on average and up to 225 with some exceeding that but more rare today. You dont really need a magnum to do this job iimho.

 

[snert]

Hey Jon, good to hear from you! Hope you are doing well and your daughter as well.

I know the question is rhetorical, and this thread is more about a cartridge/bullet that can do a deer at 700 and in, but I will bite...and probably derail my own thread in doing it. "Why would you need a 700 yard shot anyways"? Answer: cause the average shot in NY is 100.

I hope you hear my tone of good natured ribbing. You are a heck of a good guy and I just thought it cool that the answer was sorta in your post, at least for me. I also agree you do not need a mag to do it. You need efficiency and BC, in a bullet that works at impact. And THAT is a topic I am NOT up to date on. (For the record, I've done it, three times, three shots. 625, 545, and a 331 yard head shot, called. all with a back-up shooter in case I messed it up, and all with a 7 rem mag, 150 grain NBT and a pile of 7828. Old school. All were DRT or within feet. ) I don't do it anymore cause I moved to western PA where deer shots are only as long as the hood of my Kia. (anyone care to quote the Kinetic energy of a Kia Soul at 55?? Cause it sure does a number on deer)

For all the guys here who are reminding me that it is unethical or wrong or near impossible to shoot a deer at 700 yards (I never called it hunting...its shooting), just let me say, again, I used this number cause its the longest field he has. Just that simple. Will he? Won't he? That's not the question.

I'm not going to go into that discussion further because I just really wanted the opinions of guys who have done it, and how, with what. And you are coming thru.

I really want to say I appreciate all of you for being willing to offer your thoughts and experiences. The info about recoil mitigation is a big one, cause he does have cervical spine issues and unless its a heavy braked rifle, a mag is out of the question. The info about bullet performance, especially the newer bullets, is priceless. And thanks too, to the guys who PM'd me, offering thoughts that they just didn't want to share in a group. Priceless stuff. This is a fine forum and great Site.

Snert