AR 15 build advice

[GSS]

As a Service Rifle shooter that manages my clubs 600 yard Highpower range and program, competes in 600 yard full distance competitions regularly and has been to the Annual National Championships at Camp Perry 13 times since 2003 I have done business with all 3 of the most popular Service Rifle / Service Rifle Components companies;
White Oak (John Holliger)
Keystone (John Scandale)
Compass Lake (Frank and Theresa White)

They are all great people and companies no matter if you are buying complete assembled uppers, parts to build your own or annual re barreling of 20" NM Service Rifles.

No offense intended to the OP of this thread or anyone else but,

If one is looking to build a Home Defense / Rambo / Zombie gun for as cheap as possible those may not be the best people to call / contact.
I'm 150% NOT saying they won't provide what you want but it isn't really what they do...
Plus they are all typically very busy with existing Service Rifle customers as their primary market with wait lists and back ordered parts from time to time.

Kinda Silly comparison but,,,
picture going into a 5 star steak house in an upscale location and asking the chef if he can whip you up something like a big Mac for $5 as you don't want to spend the $14 for the burger with the fresh / quality ground beef they have on the menu. Maybe they will be nice and whip you up something for $5, maybe not.

Around a year ago when I contacted John at Keystone to order another YHM Quad Rail off him with a permanently / more securely attached front sling swivel as opposed the cheapo clamp on styles you can get on ebay for $8 John said he is doing less and less service rifle work. Reason was many service rifle shooter ( myself included ) have a reputation of being cheap and will often nickel and dime things where we can ( probably cuz we spend money to travel all over the country shooting matches and shoot 4000 - 6000 rounds of ammo a year between practice and matches ) John said he is doing more and more PRS and custom hunting rifles as 99% of those customers don't care what it cost they just want top shelf. No slight intended by this post towards any of them either. We all do what we do and like what we like.

So I guess I'm saying is,,,,
if you or anyone wants a rifle like in the pic below or similar simply for some fun GI Joe / Rambo / Real Operator reenactments or zombie target blasting in a sandpit or keeping home invasion thugs at bay WOA, CLE or Keystone may not be the best people to call.

If I were the Op ofthis thread I'd buy decent Quality parts at any of the previously mentioned sources in this thread and bring some beer over to your friends house having him show you how to use his tools to build your "1st one" and then take it form there for any future children / siblings it may spawn.

Everyone should own at least one Just for Fun AR15.
Mine is a S&W M&P15/AR22 that I have a blast with the 3 grandsons with for cheap money to buy and shoot. Any home invasion thugs get a Louisville slugger or 45 cal hollow points.

Cheers All,
George
https://nfga.org/leveridge-range/


View attachment 1153355

 

[Minshooter]

Unless it's a pistol, or building an M4 clone, or always shooting suppressed,

get only a mid length gas tube for 16" or rifle length for anything longer. Just do it.

About 500K threads online for why. (Probably also 500K on why someone's carbine length tube works fine).

 

[snowpro440]

Lots of YouTube videos out there on assembling AR"s So many distributors of parts and rifle kits for sale ...example
http://blackthorneproducts.com/cart...Path=6_33_36&zenid=fu0hne6ir6hcsbmjqktnkfajd1

 

[Richard Coody]

Another thing i learned along the way. An AR15 can gain weight fast. When you start talking precision heavy barreled ar's pretty quickly all you want to do is lug.it.to the bench.

It is.difficult to find a compromise between precision and weight. Myself my truck gun is a stock PSA. Quite.light with the noodle barrel. It.serves the purpose. Now for.hog hunting i have built what.i feel is a.good compromise. A grendel with a JP 20" lightweight barrel, skeletonized stock, JP hanguard, SSA-E trigger, 13 oz leupold 2x10 scope and aerotech 3oz scope mount. Weighs right at 7.5 lb without a mag. Consistent less than 1 moa rifle. It is not.easy but i am pleased with how it.turned out.

 

[skeeljc]

Another thing i learned along the way. An AR15 can gain weight fast. When you start talking precision heavy barreled ar's pretty quickly all you want to do is lug.it.to the bench.

It is.difficult to find a compromise between precision and weight. Myself my truck gun is a stock PSA. Quite.light with the noodle barrel. It.serves the purpose. Now for.hog hunting i have built what.i feel is a.good compromise. A grendel with a JP 20" lightweight barrel, skeletonized stock, JP hanguard, SSA-E trigger, 13 oz leupold 2x10 scope and aerotech 3oz scope mount. Weighs right at 7.5 lb without a mag. Consistent less than 1 moa rifle. It is not.easy but i am pleased with how it.turned out.

My 24" heavy barrel PD AR-15 comes in at 13+ pounds. It is truly a bench gun.

 

[dc.fireman]

Thats not even remotely funny!
Sorry had to reply

Agreed.

And, I doubt it.

Mine have all met with a terrible boating accident:

 

[Pawnee Bill]

You've wisely admitted up front just how little you know about ARs.
I was in the same situation.
-
After much research, I had Compass Lake assemble my parts from Mega Arms.
(What little they charged amounted to the single best decision I made throughout the build.)
They thoughtfully advised where to spend money and where to save.
I couldn't possibly be more pleased: flawless functioning that wouldn't have came together, otherwise, on my first attempt. Certainly not the least expensive route, but absolutely free of any upgrade that doesn't contribute to accuracy and/or reliability. (Caution: that market is chock full of BS ranging from aesthetics to full on snake oil.)
-
My 16" Krieger barrel easily shot 1/2" 5-shot groups at 100 yards, outdoor from a Harris bipod, across more than 10 bullets with basic dies and little reloading experience at the time. Occasionally, match bullets (52, 53 & 69) would dip into the mid 2s at 100. 55 Blitzkings would print repeat 1.2" groups @ 200 and the 60 Sierra Varminter would repeat in the 8s @ 200.
-
Best of luck with your project. Let us know how it turns out.

+1 on Compass Lake Good folks to do business with!

 

[mauser284]

If you have a free float handguard, match grade barrel and the headspace is right you will be fine with any Milspec lower and upper reciever. PSA has a fine reputation for putting together reliable upper's, lowers and parts. They are more accurate than what the Military issues but not known for supreme accuracy. I assembled my AR from PSA parts and an Anderson lower purchased from Cabela's. All in I spent $300 to build my AR.

If I was planning on competing with it I would definitely change the barrel and improve on the GI trigger I have. I would prob. go with White Oak or LW for the barrel.

GI BCG, lower,upper,buffer, gas block are all fine no guarantee of accuracy to be had from spending big on those. In a perfect world you would have a box of bolts and extensions so you could get the best possible headspace with out the need to hand machining. Hand fitting stock parts to arrive at the best fit is easy to do and not that expensive to do.

Just like any other rifle how the chamber is cut, head space, throat, crown, stress in the barrel, how true, square and concentric all of the parts are machined matters. Tossing money at expensive parts does not guarantee much of anything with regard to how all those parts fit together and operate. That is why it is better to spend the money on the builder not on the parts. You put the money were it will do the most good.

Also note that no one ever post's anything remotely resembling facts and figures as if they are an engineer, gunsmith or machinist and have actually measured all of these GI parts and boutique parts and put them into a spreadsheet with all of their measurements proving which parts are better! They will never name names either too afraid of being sued I am sure. Anyone so unsure of their facts or too afraid to tell the truth has a weak foundation to stand on. No one can ever demonstrate any test results that can be tested and repeated by another. No one ever takes the time to find the problem, remain the part to fix it to prove that it was brand X's machining that caused the problem and once fixed solved the problem.

Opinions are a dime a dozen and experts that will not name names or list facts and figures makes them pretty weak experts!

In fact the experts on this sight and many other's will on one hand tell you that by the time you blue print an OEM actions you could have just bought a custom action. THen in the same thread they will tell you that even a custom action needs to be remachined to be worthy of competing with. So which is it? All the while no one will put down anything remotely resembling a hard fact. I am no better but I do not pass myself off as an expert either.

My mother inlaw shot a 1/4 MOA group with my sons Ruger AR556 with Federal Bulk 223 ammo and my son claims it is a 1/2 MOA rifle all day everyday on the other hand his Remington 700 is at best a 1.5MOA rifle. My son is not a liar or exaggerator not with a 1.5MOA Remington 700. My mother inlaw is a world class hunter though. I doubt all Ruger AR556 are that accurate but clearly some are. When you look at the cost though and Ruger's warranty it almost makes building one from parts as a bargain option look silly and high risk to reward ratio. The only reason I did it was because I got all of my parts on sale/clearance and with shipping and taxes I did mine for $300 last year. If you really must have a very accurate rifle with under 1 MOA accuracy building from parts is not worth it until you have some experience and 'smithing skills it is not a sure thing or close to it!

If you are going to piece together an AR and need it to be accurate get an upper with a LW barrel or some other premium barrel and a BCG made in the USA to Milspec as the minimum and you should be fine.

 

[skeeljc]

JP Rifles has come up with an interesting improvement. They provide an interference fit between the upper and the barrel extension. You assemble it by heating the upper receiver. I look for more manufacturers to adopt the process.

 

[dc.fireman]

Agree 100% with this.

Not sure everyone has a set of roll pin punches in their toolbox. And I have seen enough of folks mark up the lower when driving the bolt catch roll pin home, and breaking an ear off the trigger guard when not supporting it on the underside when driving the roll pin through.

Guilty. Twice.

 

[mac86951]

Agreed.

And, I doubt it.

Mine have all met with a terrible boating accident:

View attachment 1156227

Terrible! Mine went the same way, but in the desert. Substitute water for trailer.

-Mac

 

[Rocketvapor]

Another low bucks "I want an AR" guy.
Our first was a PSA 2 pin build
Yup, it was an AR.
Then just to say I build it (assembled of course) I got another, but this time from parts.
Wanted it to look like an A2 with open sights.
It does, and from a sling it shoots about an MOA @ 100
A few more (all the others fell into the lake) with a GOAL of shooting 600 yards.
Would never have thought I would go there.
Thermal fit barrel, lapped receiver (not needed with high end parts).
I shopped for bargains used my Midway birthday discount to advantage, and put together a couple uppers.
How, 'bout that, swapping uppers
16" PSA upper, kitchen assembled 20 inch, and a 22" from Green Mountain that shoots under an MOA.
I don' have any that shoot .1s or .2s. I probably couldn't point a laser to that or shoot lights out anyway.
Does that keep me from enjoying my AR's?

My advice to the Op is to decide if he wants the knowledge gained from putting an AR together in the kitchen, or buy one.
Don't expect to compete with it, or rely on it for home defense. A mistake with one is a low score a mistake with the other is worse.

Maybe buy your first just so you have one, then consider putting one together from parts.

 

[VaniB]

I envy you guys that have consistent 1/2" MOA AR15 rifles. I always wanted one. Years ago I bought DPMS 308 panther and RRA National match rifles, and changed the barrels out with Krieger and White Oak barrels with small improvements in accuracy. The norm with the new barrels or the factory barrels was 5-shot 3/4" to 1" MOA with careful handloads and Gieselle triggers and a 24X scope off of solid Hart Rest. Rare targets were 5-shot 1/2" MOA that I could NOT duplicate again that day during the same range visit. I have since given up on seeking benchrest accuracy with an AR, sold those 2 expensive barrels, and rebuilt my 2 AR rifles with lighter 18"-18.5" light weight barrels with collapsible LMT stocks, 4 way rails, and detachable mounts, with BUIS sights and Eotechs. With my handloads they are now 7/8" to 1 1/8 MOA 5-shot group shooters with an occasional 5/8" to 3/4" 5-shot group . (which is OK with me, because I like my AR's to resemble military weapons anyway) On the other hand, all 4 of my Remington 700's are 5 shot 1/2" moa to 1/4" moa with handloads (3 are custom, and 1 is factory)...... so I know it's NOT that I don't know how to shoot causing mediocre standard 7/8" -1 1/8 results with the AR's.




This was a DPMS 308 Panther Rifle that had a heavy factory 24" stainless barrel, a round forearm tube, and an fixed stock when it was new. It now shoots 7/8" to 1 1/8" 5-shot groups with an occassional 5/8" group.

 

[Richard Coody]

Well an ar can be incredibly accurate but i wouldn't say bolt gun accurate. My 6mm ar turbo 40 improved built by Robert Whitley was such a gun.

9

 

[jghoghunter]

I received my WOA upper a while back and yesterday here in Pa was a terrible day to try to shoot groups but I had to go to the club anyways as the president. So that said I shot probably 10 year old 60gr. vmax loads that were loaded from random surplus military brass for my bushmaster from 200 to 500 yards. On paper at 200 was 1.5" to 2" at 300 was a 6" square plate 12 out of 12 hit the plate using hold over. At 500 was a 8" rock that pounded a hole right next to it probably 5" or less till the wind would change then you could be as much as 8-10" away. Yesterday was very windy with gust up to 18 mph or so. Wind was switching up quit a bit. I fired 6 shots from the ar with the dust blowing to the right, in the time it takes to recover and aim the next shot the dust was going to the left then back to the right for the following shot.
All in all I was happy with the WOA and with some more work I believe it will do exactly what I wanted it to do.
I want to thank all the guys that helped me here to make my decision on what to do and buy.
Thanks

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

You don't sound like a competitive shooter. I have built a lot of AR's using a mixed bag of parts. Most parts are standard parts and will interchange with other brands. Even the trigger can be outfitted mixing branded parts together and you will hardly notice the difference. You don't need to spend a fortune building an AR for hitting the kill spot at 100 yards.

If you are looking for 1/4 moa, while it's possible to shoot one, you will need to spend a bit more money especially on the trigger and barrel. Further, a good expensive upper receiver and bolt group will pay caddied dividends when it comes to accuracy. While building an AR, don't forget to face both the barrel extension to the upper. They make tools for this.

I seen guys come to the range with AR's costing upwards of $1500.00 and they don't close to my less than $400.00 gun. It's up to you. Buy the parts in the price range for what you intend to shoot.

 

[jghoghunter]

You don't sound like a competitive shooter. I have built a lot of AR's using a mixed bag of parts. Most parts are standard parts and will interchange with other brands. Even the trigger can be outfitted mixing branded parts together and you will hardly notice the difference. You don't need to spend a fortune building an AR for hitting the kill spot at 100 yards.

If you are looking for 1/4 moa, while it's possible to shoot one, you will need to spend a bit more money especially on the trigger and barrel. Further, a good expensive upper receiver and bolt group will pay caddied dividends when it comes to accuracy. While building an AR, don't forget to face both the barrel extension to the upper. They make tools for this.

I seen guys come to the range with AR's costing upwards of $1500.00 and they don't close to my less than $400.00 gun. It's up to you. Buy the parts in the price range for what you intend to shoot.

I'm a highly competitive shooter. Just yesterday (weather) and the ammo that I used I felt that it did pretty well. I'm looking for .5" groups from this rifle and I believe it MAY do that with some load work. My 6mmAR will be here tomorrow and I'm expecting it to be very competitive in our AR class groundhog shoots out to 500 yards. What I'm not expecting out of either ar upper is .75-1.25 groups at 500 yards which is what you need to shoot to win at our groundhog hog matches.

 

[Rocketvapor]

That's .75 inch to 1.25 inch groups @ 500 yards?

Sounds doable to me.
600 yd record is much less than that.

 

[jghoghunter]

That's .75 inch to 1.25 inch groups @ 500 yards?

Sounds doable to me.
600 yd record is much less than that.

I understand the 600 yard record is much less than that but what is the 600 yard average. Much higher than the record. None of this was shot with a AR either.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Well it won't be me