AR 15 barrels

[Pyscodog]

Here's the rifle. ZRO Delta, MagPul stock and CMC trigger that breaks at 2lbs.

 

[tobnpr]

Service Rifle shooters use 4.5X scopes and haven't seen a difference in group size in MOA.

Not a fair comparison.
OP is not a competitive shooter...

 

[jelenko]

Not a fair comparison.
OP is not a competitive shooter...

Right. But, many service rifle shooters are new to the sport.
From my own experience, the difference between 1 1/2 and 1/2 MOA groups is not the difference in magnification regardless of level of expertise.
Actually, for beginners, the high mag may actually produce larger groups due to trying to hold harder.

 

[atfdlocal4020]

No.
If he shoots 1/2" groups at 50 yards, it would have been a 1" group at one hundred.

After it leaves the barrel the bullet is unaffected by any thing the shooter did.

Exactly. You just proved my point. The group will be smaller if he shoots 1/2" at 50.

 

[atfdlocal4020]

Right. But, many service rifle shooters are new to the sport.
From my own experience, the difference between 1 1/2 and 1/2 MOA groups is not the difference in magnification regardless of level of expertise.
Actually, for beginners, the high mag may actually produce larger groups due to trying to hold harder.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[round]

Maybe I missed it, what twist is the barrel and are you using reloads or factory ?

 

[LVLAaron]

AR's are hard for a bunch of reasons. Far more complicated than a bolt gun.

My two cents:
* If you want to shoot groups; single load. Skip the mag.
* Bipod discipline. If you load the bipod, it can bend things and has a huge impact on POI.
* Upper/Lower fit gets more attention than deserved.
* Ignition is key, just like on a bolt gun. I really like trigger tech cartridge triggers. The springs are TIGHT and the triggers are smooth (strong, consistent, ignition)
* There are more than you can count barrel makers out there, and everyone says they're all great. It's a cultural thing in the AR world. No one wants to say they can't shoot groups / a lot of these guys shoot paper plates at 25 yards and say their gun is awesome. A lot of these guys are pistol hobbyists who are happy to hit paper, thet buy an AR and are blown away that their new toy can shoot 2 moa groups.
* The best bang for your buck barrel, is a WOA Varmint barrel.
* The best barrel you can get is a White Oak Precision (These are Krieger or Bartlein barrels)

The absolute best best barrel is one that your qualified gunsmith makes.


Long story short... get a WOA Varmint barrel and bed it. Or have a custom barrel made. Not sure many AR people want to spend 900 bucks on a barrel/smith work, but I assure you, for how many rounds a good 223 barrel lasts, it is worth it.

 

[LVLAaron]

^ Great barrels are practically free (compared to wasting ammo, testing, frustration, replacement, etc)

 

[Pyscodog]

I don't shoot off a bi-pod. I either use a Wichita front rest or a bull bag and a protector rear bag. For the AR, I actually prefer the bull bag.

 

[Walt Krafft]

I don't shoot off a bi-pod. I either use a Wichita front rest or a bull bag and a protector rear bag. For the AR, I actually prefer the bull bag.

If you are used to shooting with a light grip on the gun, try a very firm grip holding the gun down in your bags. All the moving parts of an AR need to be constrained.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I am a weirdo but I can actually shoot tighter groups from the sling than off of a bench with an AR. They just don’t like the rests and bags in my experience.

FWIW - Groups in an AR with 4.5x are not significantly larger than those shot with 15-20x for me. Larger but not by much.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Isn't that essentially the same as an accuwedge?

As far as I know, the fit between the upper and lower doesn't affect accuracy in the 1 MOA range.
I have several uppers that are reasonably loose that all shoot sub MOA.

Same experience.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

As LVLA suggested, first thing single load a couple groups. If grouping improves or that flier is gone. You have a mag/feed issue or a bullet seating/crimp issue. Mag check,ramp check-- shoot groups with feed off only left side and then right side(ramp check).

 

[Pyscodog]

I ordered a Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel today. Its not bench rest quality but supposed to be a decent barrel. All I'm looking for is a consistent shooting barrel. I don't know if this will solve my accuracy issues but I got to start somewhere. I feel that all I'm doing now is wasting ammo and making noise.

 

[dryhumor]

Years ago, I had a 16” Rock River 1:9 heavy barreled upper. Hands down the best AR barrel I’ve ever had. I truly have some regrets in selling it. 69 SMKs were most accurate.

The next best barrel was a White Oak SPR profile in 1:8.

I’ve found myself looking at AR barrels again myself. Trying to decide to put an Xcaliber 1:12 twist back in service, that I never spent enough time on, or go back to Rock River… or Armalite… or….

 

[AccelR8]

I ordered a Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel today. Its not bench rest quality but supposed to be a decent barrel. All I'm looking for is a consistent shooting barrel. I don't know if this will solve my accuracy issues but I got to start somewhere. I feel that all I'm doing now is wasting ammo and making noise.

I got my BA barrel. I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet. Against my better judgment (I thought) I looked at it with a bore scope and now I'm glad I did.

First of all, it looks really good for an inexpensive barrel, at least in my opinion. I've seen much worse. It's a Premium Series barrel, stainless, and the web pages says “Our Premium Series 6.5 Creedmoor Barrels are proof fired and MPI tested...” The reason why I'm glad I did bore scope it before shooting is I found heavy copper deposits. I think heavier than I've seen in any barrels new or used. The deposits are about in the middle of the barrel and about an inch inside the muzzle On top of the lands only, not in the grooves. Again, the deposits were really thick, heavy. It is not like the little bit of copper sometimes left by the button rifling process. Also copper up in the gas port. The port looks nice, with no burr or anything.

Looking at the throat it does look like the barrel had been fired as down in the grooves the steel is darkened a little but the throat looks pristine other than that. So I think it must have not been fired much at all. I don't understand why the heavy copper. As I clean away the copper the underlying lands do not appear to be rough at all.

I've been working on removing the copper over several days. I've been soaking with Hoppe's No.9 for 6 to 8 hours or over night then brushing and patching. Copper is gradually coming out. Trying to speed it up I bought some Hoppe's Black Copper Cleaner which was the only copper remover I could find locally. It doesn't seem to have any effect at all. The No. 9 works faster.

edited to clarify, the copper is in the middle of the bore two or three inches in length and about an inch inside the muzzle for a length of about an inch or an inch and a half.

 

[LVLAaron]

If that's all you have, put an earplug in the end of the barrel and fill it up with cleaner to soak. (Cabelas / Bass Pro usually has little bottles of butches bore shine)

 

[Pyscodog]

I stopped in a Tulsa shop that is mainly AR related and he recommended BA barrels and quoted me a price. I got home and looked them up myself and could get it cheaper than the shop plus a 15% discount and free shipping. Kinda hard to pass it up but now I'm wondering if I should have went a different direction. Its hard to think it will be any worse than what I have now.

 

[jelenko]

From all that I've read, BA barrels are ~ 1+ MOA with ammo tuned to the barrel.
From personal experience and that of a bunch of others, WOA brand [i.e., not Shilen, Kreiger, etc] are 1/2 MOA +/-

 

[hoz53]

I got my BA barrel. I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet. Against my better judgment (I thought) I looked at it with a bore scope and now I'm glad I did.

First of all, it looks really good for an inexpensive barrel, at least in my opinion. I've seen much worse. It's a Premium Series barrel, stainless, and the web pages says “Our Premium Series 6.5 Creedmoor Barrels are proof fired and MPI tested...” The reason why I'm glad I did bore scope it before shooting is I found heavy copper deposits. I think heavier than I've seen in any barrels new or used. The deposits are about in the middle of the barrel and about an inch inside the muzzle On top of the lands only, not in the grooves. Again, the deposits were really thick, heavy. It is not like the little bit of copper sometimes left by the button rifling process. Also copper up in the gas port. The port looks nice, with no burr or anything.

Looking at the throat it does look like the barrel had been fired as down in the grooves the steel is darkened a little but the throat looks pristine other than that. So I think it must have not been fired much at all. I don't understand why the heavy copper. As I clean away the copper the underlying lands do not appear to be rough at all.

I've been working on removing the copper over several days. I've been soaking with Hoppe's No.9 for 6 to 8 hours or over night then brushing and patching. Copper is gradually coming out. Trying to speed it up I bought some Hoppe's Black Copper Cleaner which was the only copper remover I could find locally. It doesn't seem to have any effect at all. The No. 9 works faster.

edited to clarify, the copper is in the middle of the bore two or three inches in length and about an inch inside the muzzle for a length of about an inch or an inch and a half.

sounds like they sent you a used barrel. why didnt you contact them and ask for a new one?