ANNEALING

[Bnhpr]

I've been spoiled for some time with good brass, because I have favored calibers that have it available. I picked up two new 223 wssm's lately and decided to anneal a bag of 223 wssm cases (garbage) last week in a desparate attempt to control neck tension. After having completed that, when I started seating the bullets, I then knew I had failed.

So, I cut a mandrel in the lathe and rigged a shell holder in the tailstock and turned the necks on 10 brass down by .005 and the neck tension dropped to reasonable levels and was consistent.

Don't know how long the cases will last, but it worked, where annealing did not.

 

[TonyR]

Bnhpr. Unfortunately, I have found precision reloading to be like peeling an onion in that you sometimes have to get a lot of things out of the way before you can see something else that is underneath. My first forays into annealing occured after I had figured out how to get necks turned to consistent thickness and tried custom dies to eliminate runout. I had also started using a medical balance to weigh my powder charges and trimmed and pointed my bullets but I still had more ES and SD than I wanted and I still had more rounds coming out of the die with higher runout than I wanted. Annealing fixed all of that the first time I tried it. I should point out that this might have been an extreme example because I don't know how many times the brass had been fired and my chamber has a lot of clearence in the neck area so the brass was probably worked pretty hard but I was sure pleased with my investment in the annealing machine. And I am not trying to argue that annealing is the most important part of my reloading process. It probably is not but it does play a role in conjunction with a lot of other things.

Jim. I would be interested in how you use the strain gauge. Where to you put it on the die and how do you get the readings? Sounds like a great idea.

 

[johara1]

Tony i borrowed a pressure load cell to see if the one on the K-M was worth the using and guess what that works good enough....jim

 

[Bnhpr]

Rereading my post, I didnt make clear that I did anneal the brass and skim the necks. The combination of the two produced better grouping.

 

[ordnancemarine]

It seems that we are all spending a lot of time trying to justify our individual reloading processes. The trouble with that is not everyone's situation is the same. Annealing works. Make no mistake about it, it corrects the hardening due to the stress placed on it by the changes in shape due to firing and reloading. Whether you do the hand-held method, a machine, or induction annealing it all does the same thing. It returns the spring in the brass therefore extending the life of the brass. THESE ARE KNOWN FACTS! I just wonder why so many people out there are trying to dispel these facts and offer their own anecdotal testimonies swearing that their way is the only correct way. I guess I'm just dissuaded by the shooting community because of the amount of "my way is the best way" mentality. It seems that instead just relying on the known good methods of reloading, or shooting technique for that matter, shooters would rather tell you that you are wrong because you are not doing it the way they do it. I shoot high power and F- class on a regular basis and it never seems to amaze me how much audacity some people have when it comes to offering their opinions. I'm sorry if some of you think that this reply is unnecessary, but I'm tired of unwanted opinions that begin with " you need to...". So to those of you that need to offer their unsolicited opinions to me and other shooters that already know what they are doing, please save your breath, go get behind your rifle and practice. I doubt you'll have much to say when I put down scores which are higher then yours.

 

[Steve Blair]

I doubt you'll have much to say when I put down scores which are higher then yours.

Do you shoot at Pendleton, Marine?

I agree that no matter how you do it, what really matters is what your scorer reports.

 

[ordnancemarine]

Yes, I shoot at Pendleton, Wilcox Range 103 and NSW range 117a off Basilone Rd.

 

[TonyR]

For those ineterested in the brass metalurgy, forum member RonAKA posted a very interesting study of the work hardening effects on brass:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3762045.msg35936529.html#msg35936529

I found it interesting because I know a number of top shooters that don't anneal and I would like to understand when it is important and when it is less so in a real shooting environment. I was surprised by how little stretching seems to be needed to significantly harden the brass. This may explain why annealing helps even the new brass for my 284 Shehane, which I make by necking up 6.5X284 Lapua brass then fireforming, and the loose chamber I have on my 6mmBR. One of my shooting buddies holds the F-T/R 600 yard national record of 200-17X and he never anneals anything but he also runs about 0.0015 chamber neck clearance.

 

[Steve Blair]

Yes, I shoot at Pendleton, Wilcox Range 103 and NSW range 117a off Basilone Rd.

Me, too, with Santa Margarita Gun Club. I try to make all the mid and long range prone matches. Sadly, all our matches have been cancelled until the road work is complete.

 

[amlevin]

Doug. I believe that you are correct. The properties of the brass change to the same state as long as the brass is heated somewhere in the correct temperature range. Too low and nothing happens. Too high and the brass is ruined. It would appear that the range is something like 200 dgrees F. The only other requirement seems to be that the case head area stay in the "Too low" temperature range. Again just an opinion based on reading what the makers of the machines seem to be saying.

Considering that the annealing temps for 70-30 Brass are 800-1400 degrees F. The main consideration is to keep the lower part of the case cool.

I've started to use a smaller torch (a small Bernz with a pencil flame) to heat the shoulder area. This seems to keep the case mouth from getting too hot yet the remainder hot enough. Using some form of heat sink, a deep socket wrench or a tool made for the purpose, and the case head should remain cool enough while the remainder reaches that 800 degree spread of temps to anneal.

I can remember tempering steel and annealing copper back in the early 60's when just about the only method available to read temps was color. Today I cheat and use a Tempilstik.