Annealing in molten lead

[Jacks Grampa]

Just read an old post about annealing brass by dipping the case neck in your bullet casting pot. Pros and cons? Thanks, James

 

[rockhound78]

slow but it does work. Fingers get kinda warm

 

[JSH]

There are better ways that are as simple as that.

 

[Webster]

Just read an old post about annealing brass by dipping the case neck in your bullet casting pot. Pros and cons? Thanks, James

That's a very high temp for a lead pot. Lead fumes are dangerous. I tried it once and had a problem with lead sticking to the neck. Almost impossible to remove.

 

[SecondsCount]

I've heard of molten salt but never lead.

 

[Evlshnngns]

If you are doing it for brass longevity, I would absolutely go with the drill and torch method before I went with lead or salt.

 

[TC260]

I've heard of molten salt but never lead.

Without looking it up I can’t remember the guy’s name (Barker maybe?) but there was a metallurgist that wrote an article some years ago about annealing by two different simple methods, candle and molten lead. Low tech but hot enough for recovery annealing

Edit…did a brief search and his name was Fred Barker and the article may have been in the July ‘96 issue of Precision Shooting

 

[clowdis]

Annealing brass is done at a faint red color or about 1300 degrees F. Molten lead at a good pouring temperature is about 850 degrees F, not near hot enough to anneal brass.

 

[TC260]

Annealing brass is done at a faint red color or about 1300 degrees F. Molten lead at a good pouring temperature is about 850 degrees F, not near hot enough to anneal brass.

It’s not hot enough to fully anneal but it’s hot enough for recovery annealing

 

[piie]

I've heard of molten salt but never lead.

I thought it’s called soldering

 

[SecondsCount]

I thought it’s called soldering

Funny. The subject of this thread is annealing

 

[PhilC]

I've heard of molten salt but never lead.

I'm a low volume shooter and have used the salt bath method for over 2yrs. PID controlled Lee pot, a pair of welding gloves, goggles, and 5gal bucket half full of water on the floor behind my right shoulder so there's no chance of splashback. Does what I need it to do.

I cast at 825° - 850° and never a problem.

 

[rockhound78]

Lead fumes being dangerous at normal casting temps is an old wives tale. I have used the molten lead method but on fired cases. A new piece of brass probably would be soldered. My ugly annealer should work on the large cases I used to do the lead method.

 

[Jacks Grampa]

I think I'll try this.

 

[TTE]

I think I'll try this.

That will work, however if you use a socket and a drill motor you will get more even heating results

 

[brokeasajoke]

That will work, however if you use a socket and a drill motor you will get more even heating results

This^^. Socket and a handheld drill. I use a small Black&Decker rechargeable electric screw driver.

 

[Webster]

This^^. Socket and a handheld drill. I use a small Black&Decker rechargeable electric screw driver.

I use the shell holder for my neck turner and anneal with a propane torch. I never do more than 50 cases at a time. Probably shoot less than 500 shots a year.

 

[rijndael]

Lead fumes being dangerous at normal casting temps is an old wives tale. I have used the molten lead method but on fired cases.

Please post the proof or supporting documentation.

"I've been doing it this way for 20 years and I'm fine" is not a sufficient answer.

I'll start with this:

https://oem.msu.edu/images/annual_reports/lead%20hazards%20casting%20and%20reloading-sept.pdf

 

[RegionRat]

Annealing brass is done at a faint red color or about 1300 degrees F. Molten lead at a good pouring temperature is about 850 degrees F, not near hot enough to anneal brass.

Not to be argumentative here since I do agree we happen to have an alignment between heat treating of alpha phase brass necks and what is called The Draper Point Temperature (the point where a human eye can see a visible dull glow).

However, that temperature is much lower than 1300 degrees F. Depending on which human technician we test, that temperature is roughly 980 F and can vary a little with different humans. If I were to blind test you in the lab, you would call the temp under 1000 F, or we wouldn't qualify you for heat treating.

What usually happens in practice, is that the heat rate of the process will overshoot that Draper Point Temp and that allows for what we would call flash heat treating in the necks for a shorter time.

One of the only reasons the type of immersion heating being discussed with molten lead or salts still exist, is for settings where the temperature over-shoot cannot be allowed. But here we are talking about hobby reloading, not industrial settings where we have to protect from over-shoot.

Now for the OP's question... I don't recommend using molten lead or salt for heat treating necks when other methods are less total fuss. Both molten lead and motel salts can heat treat brass necks to varying amounts, but it wouldn't be the method of choice when all things are considered.

There are always safety issues with an open flame and beginners should proceed with extreme caution of they don't have an experienced mentor or extensive shop/lab experience with safety. However, there are also safety issues with molten lead and salt so there are trade-offs between the issues and benefits.

 

[RegionRat]

Lead fumes being dangerous at normal casting temps is an old wives tale. I have used the molten lead method but on fired cases. A new piece of brass probably would be soldered. My ugly annealer should work on the large cases I used to do the lead method.

In all the lab and industrial settings where we have humans near lead, molten or not, we always find lead and lead oxides in the environment where there is lead work, ammo, or shooting being done. Even the solder girls had regular blood tests.

We had to have year-round medical surveillance on these folks, and you can always find elevated lead in their blood tests when they worked with lead or places where ammo was being handled or shot. Keeping those lead levels as low as possible took education and training. It wasn't wives tales.

We just have to be realistic about handling lead in general, be it from casting, or even shooting or reloading in general. When you cast molten lead, or do solder work, or handle heavy metals in general, play it safe and do your homework. YMMV