Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone on set
- Thread starter markT
- Start date
- Status
Bill Norris
Back in the Day
That definitely is the bigger question for me as well.
It's tempting to be self-righteous and condemn, especially when we despise everything an industry stands for. That said, the movie industry does indeed own this.
If it was an accident, it was due to incompetence or bad safety protocols. It's hard to imagine that Hollywood, who have been safely using guns as props for decades, doesn't have robust safety procedures in place. That leaves incompetence, and the initial reports seem to point to that.
They need to hire gun guys, since we are almost over-the-top in our efforts to stay safe with firearms. Of course, they hate us.
The should be a procedure that before filming a scene, the actors with the guns perform their own safety check to make sure the right kind of blanks are loaded. It would be no issue to have each type of round colored so as to be easily seen. I suspect they don't have that type of check. I suspect they rely on armorers.
Relying on armorers is common in the military. Several years ago, a F-15 pilot in Alaska shot down his squadron commander in a dogfight. Someone had put a live missile on his jet by mistake. IIRC, at that time, missiles weren't as distinctly marked as they should have been.
So the missile loader loaded the wrong missile. I am not sure who does the preflight walk around on F-15s or who checks what. In some USAF planes I have flown the pilot does a very thorough walk around, in others the pilot does a quick big-picture walk around because the crew chief or engineer does the thorough walk around. I think fighters also have a end of runway weapons check, but that may only be if the are purposely carrying live ordnance.
Regardless, several people missed that this F-15 was loaded with a live missile for a training mission. When the missile came off the rails the pilot has enough presence of mind to immediately tell his sq/cc to eject.
So these types of accidents are rarely the cause of one single failure. Usually it's a chain of events.....
If it was an accident, it was due to incompetence or bad safety protocols. It's hard to imagine that Hollywood, who have been safely using guns as props for decades, doesn't have robust safety procedures in place. That leaves incompetence, and the initial reports seem to point to that.
They need to hire gun guys, since we are almost over-the-top in our efforts to stay safe with firearms. Of course, they hate us.
The should be a procedure that before filming a scene, the actors with the guns perform their own safety check to make sure the right kind of blanks are loaded. It would be no issue to have each type of round colored so as to be easily seen. I suspect they don't have that type of check. I suspect they rely on armorers.
Relying on armorers is common in the military. Several years ago, a F-15 pilot in Alaska shot down his squadron commander in a dogfight. Someone had put a live missile on his jet by mistake. IIRC, at that time, missiles weren't as distinctly marked as they should have been.
So the missile loader loaded the wrong missile. I am not sure who does the preflight walk around on F-15s or who checks what. In some USAF planes I have flown the pilot does a very thorough walk around, in others the pilot does a quick big-picture walk around because the crew chief or engineer does the thorough walk around. I think fighters also have a end of runway weapons check, but that may only be if the are purposely carrying live ordnance.
Regardless, several people missed that this F-15 was loaded with a live missile for a training mission. When the missile came off the rails the pilot has enough presence of mind to immediately tell his sq/cc to eject.
So these types of accidents are rarely the cause of one single failure. Usually it's a chain of events.....
I don't even begin to understand how this isn't on Baldwin. Lets use a gunsmith for example here, in Baldwin's shoes, since he works with firearms in his industry. If someone hands a gun to said gunsmith and tells him it's not loaded and said smith turns and shoots a third party next to him with it, I'm pretty sure the gunsmith is in deep doo doo and he can't blame the guy that said it wasn't loaded. What in hell am I missing here?
Now, if ya really wanna spin this...what if Baldwin was an unknown black actor?
Now, if ya really wanna spin this...what if Baldwin was an unknown black actor?
The Air Force version of fragging.
That's right. Try shooting someone by accident, then claiming "I didn't know it was loaded," and see what happens to you. Especially if you have a concealed carry permit. Left wing cities will love to burn you and make an example out of you.
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
He is lucky this happened in the blue state of New Mexico. The outcome may be different in a red state.First thought? Move along, nothing to see here. Watch and see what REALLY happens.
If it was you or me, DIFFERENT STORY and outcome.
Alec Baldwin is a POS liberal. Too bad he won't get what he really deserves.
If a stunt car's steering linkage breaks and the car careens into cast and crew, killing people, whose at fault?
If you hand a gun to someone who is not competent with a gun, and he then turns and accidentally shoots someone, whose fault is it?
I suspect many actors have no business being handed guns, even prop guns......
jghoghunter
Gold $$ Contributor
The stunt car is a terrible example. That's a mechanical failure that no one has control over.
Handing an idiot a firearm and he kills somebody with it, HE THE IDIOT, STILL PULLED THE TRIGGER.
That’s what I understand too, that the director is supposed to make shots look real without the guns actually being pointed at the other actors.
It's a GREAT example. It illustrates that there are multiple layers of responsibility.
While I can't imagine ME pointing a gun at a person or a camera without double checking that it was safe to do so, I have been a gun guy all of my life.
And try to tell a court that when you handed a gun to an incompetent person that it was only the fault of the trigger puller.......
And I haven't said anything about Baldwin NOT being responsible......
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
You have to start with the premise that actors are too stupid to be able to safety check a weapon.
You then make a rule(for insurance purposes) that they are not allowed to check the chamber for fear that they might put something in it and instead pay someone to do that for them.
Make the chamber checker a union employee and then no one outside the union can check the chamber.
The actor is told to stand on the "X" on the floor, point the weapon at the "y" and pull the trigger on command.
Who gets charged in this will likely have no relationship to who might actually be responsible.
It will be what person, from what union, violated what rule, that may or may not have anything to do with gun safety.
From what I have read the person who handed the weapon to Baldwin, was not the armorer and may or may not have chosen the correct 1 of 3 available. Did he belong to the firearm handling union?
I have not seen if Baldwin was pointing the weapon where he was directed to.
I can easily imagine a scenario where the unions involved decide who is at fault.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
They do this all the time in movies. How many times have you seen a character in a movie make a point with someone by pointing his handgun at them?
I would imagine that an anti gun actor is absolutely clueless on safe handling.
jghoghunter
Gold $$ Contributor
Stunt car still a terrible example. There are no multiple layers of responsibility. It's a mechanical failure that no one is able to see. You can't see stress fractures inside a piece of metal. Unless you magnaflux or x-ray. Now if somebody didn't tighten up the nuts or used a bent tie rod etc. that's different. But that's not what you said you said "steering linkage breaks."
Baldwin has been around a long time, you can bet good money he knows firearms.
How does 'being around a long time' relate to knowledge of firearms?
Too bad it wasn't in Minnesota. I'd like to see the same standard applied that got Chauvin charged with murder.
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
But with Minnesota being blue, that wouldn't happen. Remember that Minnesota is a double standard state.
2 sets of rules.
Added.
You can burn down a police station with no consequences in Minnesota, and the police cannot defend the station.
Last edited:
Those type guys with deep pockets have dabbled with everything and think they know more than anyone else. I’m betting he has a big collection.
ballistic64
Silver $$ Contributor
Anyone else think the real story will never be known, if in fact, there even is a real story?
- Status
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.