Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone on set

[M-61]

To paraphrase Walsh in 'CHINATOWN':

'Forget it Jake, it's Hollywood'

 

[Bugs]

If it had been one of us, the folks who frequent this site, the press would ensure that we would have already been convicted in the court of public opinion. Hollywood will make certain that Baldwin will not have to face such scrutiny. The blame will be deflected, you wait and see.

 

[Tokay444]

Screen Actors' Guild (SAG) safety bulletins and guidelines. These are the standards crew and actors are held to on a set. There is a specific section for firearms. It has the obvious rules of gun safety and a bit more. This is the first statement of the entire document:

"AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND THE SAFETY Of YOUR FELLOW CAST MEMBERS. Production management and crew are responsible for creating and maintaining safe conditions, but it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety."

Here is an excerpt from the Actor's Equity Association page on gun use on set. This association is the union for the actual actors, and Alec Baldwin is a confirmed member:

"Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside."

 

[markT]

Baldwin is an actor in the movie. Also producer ($$$$). He’s a Trump hating hot head. Remember the phone call with his daughter?
So, lying commie news will run the story. For a day. Family of victims will be offered some cash and settle and this turd will crust over and end of story. Baldwin will win an Oscar or some award for his acting and overcoming such a tragic event while enduring the climate crisis effect of the last administration.

 

[INTJ]

Stunt car still a terrible example. There are no multiple layers of responsibility. It's a mechanical failure that no one is able to see. You can't see stress fractures inside a piece of metal. Unless you magnaflux or x-ray. Now if somebody didn't tighten up the nuts or used a bent tie rod etc. that's different. But that's not what you said you said "steering linkage breaks."

Stunt car is still a great example and there are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.

I didn't say why the steering linkage broke. Maybe the stunt driver was too aggressive and was told not to drive that way. Maybe the metal in the tie rod was defective. Maybe a mechanic over torqued a tie rod nut. Maybe the design was poor. Maybe the stunt itself was not safe.

So for there not to be an accident.....

1. The steering linkage would have to be a adequate design

2. The driver would have to drive within the steering linkage design limits

3. The parts would not have any defects

4. The stunt would have to be safe

Anyone one of those items failing could case and accident. Each of those items has a different responsible person/entity, thus there are multiple layers of responsibility. It could have been a combination of failures, a "chain of events", as we see commonly in aircraft accident investigations, both military and civilian. In fact, it's common that any accident has many contributing causes.

If I was the investigator in the Baldwin shooting, I would ask several questions like:

1. What are the procedures for using prop guns?

2. Were those procedures followed?

3. Are those procedures reasonable and standard within the industry?

4. What training did the armorers and actors have in using prop guns?

5. Was there any horseplay involved?

6. Are any of the actors and crew known to flaunt rules?

Many years ago I underwent USAF firearms training. It was a recurring requirement for pilots. I even managed to finagle an M-16 qual. In ALL of those firearms training classes, when we were in the classroom, guns were being handles and pointed all over the place.

Being a long time gun guy even way back then, I objected. The instructors told me that they made certain there was no ammo in the room, and there just wasn't any way to keep guns from being pointed at other people. I never liked that and I wouldn't point my gun at anyone. I even watched one time when an instructor had a student point their handgun at his face so he could he could see how she was lining up the sights.

As far as I know there has never been an accident in a USAF firearms training classroom. That said, if there was, who is at fault?

The clueless kid handling a gun for very first time who pulled the trigger? The instructor training the student? The instructor who was complacent about securing the ammo? Leadership at the squadron, wing, or higher who allowed firearms training to be conducted that way?

There are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.......

 

[Tokay444]

Stunt car is still a great example and there are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.

I didn't say why the steering linkage broke. Maybe the stunt driver was too aggressive and was told not to drive that way. Maybe the metal in the tie rod was defective. Maybe a mechanic over torqued a tie rod nut. Maybe the design was poor. Maybe the stunt itself was not safe.

So for there not to be an accident.....

1. The steering linkage would have to be a adequate design

2. The driver would have to drive within the steering linkage design limits

3. The parts would not have any defects

4. The stunt would have to be safe

Anyone one of those items failing could case and accident. Each of those items has a different responsible person/entity, thus there are multiple layers of responsibility. It could have been a combination of failures, a "chain of events", as we see commonly in aircraft accident investigations, both military and civilian. In fact, it's common that any accident has many contributing causes.

If I was the investigator in the Baldwin shooting, I would ask several questions like:

1. What are the procedures for using prop guns?

2. Were those procedures followed?

3. Are those procedures reasonable and standard within the industry?

4. What training did the armorers and actors have in using prop guns?

5. Was there any horseplay involved?

6. Are any of the actors and crew known to flaunt rules?

Many years ago I underwent USAF firearms training. It was a recurring requirement for pilots. I even managed to finagle an M-16 qual. In ALL of those firearms training classes, when we were in the classroom, guns were being handles and pointed all over the place.

Being a long time gun guy even way back then, I objected. The instructors told me that they made certain there was no ammo in the room, and there just wasn't any way to keep guns from being pointed at other people. I never liked that and I wouldn't point my gun at anyone. I even watched one time when an instructor had a student point their handgun at his face so he could he could see how she was lining up the sights.

As far as I know there has never been an accident in a USAF firearms training classroom. That said, if there was, who is at fault?

The clueless kid handling a gun for very first time who pulled the trigger? The instructor training the student? The instructor who was complacent about securing the ammo? Leadership at the squadron, wing, or higher who allowed firearms training to be conducted that way?

There are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.......

Did they search you for ammo on the way in the room?

 

[jghoghunter]

Stunt car is still a great example and there are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.

I didn't say why the steering linkage broke. Maybe the stunt driver was too aggressive and was told not to drive that way. Maybe the metal in the tie rod was defective. Maybe a mechanic over torqued a tie rod nut. Maybe the design was poor. Maybe the stunt itself was not safe.

So for there not to be an accident.....

1. The steering linkage would have to be a adequate design

2. The driver would have to drive within the steering linkage design limits

3. The parts would not have any defects

4. The stunt would have to be safe

Anyone one of those items failing could case and accident. Each of those items has a different responsible person/entity, thus there are multiple layers of responsibility. It could have been a combination of failures, a "chain of events", as we see commonly in aircraft accident investigations, both military and civilian. In fact, it's common that any accident has many contributing causes.

If I was the investigator in the Baldwin shooting, I would ask several questions like:

1. What are the procedures for using prop guns?

2. Were those procedures followed?

3. Are those procedures reasonable and standard within the industry?

4. What training did the armorers and actors have in using prop guns?

5. Was there any horseplay involved?

6. Are any of the actors and crew known to flaunt rules?

Many years ago I underwent USAF firearms training. It was a recurring requirement for pilots. I even managed to finagle an M-16 qual. In ALL of those firearms training classes, when we were in the classroom, guns were being handles and pointed all over the place.

Being a long time gun guy even way back then, I objected. The instructors told me that they made certain there was no ammo in the room, and there just wasn't any way to keep guns from being pointed at other people. I never liked that and I wouldn't point my gun at anyone. I even watched one time when an instructor had a student point their handgun at his face so he could he could see how she was lining up the sights.

As far as I know there has never been an accident in a USAF firearms training classroom. That said, if there was, who is at fault?

The clueless kid handling a gun for very first time who pulled the trigger? The instructor training the student? The instructor who was complacent about securing the ammo? Leadership at the squadron, wing, or higher who allowed firearms training to be conducted that way?

There are almost always multiple layers of responsibility.......

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Not buying it.

 

[INTJ]

Did they search you for ammo on the way in the room?

I honestly don't remember. They should have.........

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Here's the Part that, I DON'T understand,.. WHY, in the name of God would anyone, point, ANY Gun at, the CENTER of, a NON Participating, NON Actor, Woman's Chest and,.. Pull the Trigger,. WHY ???
Is Baldwin, THAT freakin',.. careless and STUPID ???
Maybe he hates Women ! He treated Kim Bassinger like,.. CHIT !

 

[INTJ]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Not buying it.

That is fine. It's not easy to argue with someone like me, especially when being contrarian.

It may well be that Baldwin winds up bearing the majority of legal responsibility. Regardless, I expect that he and the movie company are going to pay a lot in damages to the victims, whether from being sued or to avoid being sued.

And forgive me, that does seem like Karma.....

 

[markT]

Shuffle the deck or change actors. Add some Clint Eastwood in. Maybe someone of not Eastwood color and friends you a got a story.

 

[jghoghunter]

That is fine. It's not easy to argue with someone like me, especially when being contrarian.

It may well be that Baldwin winds up bearing the majority of legal responsibility. Regardless, I expect that he and the movie company are going to pay a lot in damages to the victims, whether from being sued or to avoid being sued.

And forgive me, that does seem like Karma.....

It's not worth arguing over life's too short!! The Hollywood idiots are certainly not worth arguing over. As I've said before I haven't had TV in over 10 years now and I haven't been to a movie in longer than that. These people mean nothing to me just as I mean nothing to them.

 

[Shooter13]

Rumor is that a bunch of people walked off the set, disgruntled, earlier in the day.

Not rumor.

 

[gme]

Well, this didn't take long...

 

[KMart]

WHY, in the name of God would anyone, point, ANY Gun at, the CENTER of, a NON Participating, NON Actor, Woman's Chest and,.. Pull the Trigger,. WHY ???
Is Baldwin, THAT freakin',.. careless and STUPID ???

Apparently !!!!!!

 

[tmwinds]

I wish someone would put a bullet in this thread.

 

[Richard308]

Baldwin is an actor in the movie. Also producer ($$$$). He’s a Trump hating hot head. Remember the phone call with his daughter?
So, lying commie news will run the story. For a day. Family of victims will be offered some cash and settle and this turd will crust over and end of story. Baldwin will win an Oscar or some award for his acting and overcoming such a tragic event while enduring the climate crisis effect of the last administrati

If it had been one of us, the folks who frequent this site, the press would ensure that we would have already been convicted in the court of public opinion. Hollywood will make certain that Baldwin will not have to face such scrutiny. The blame will be deflected, you wait and see.

Baldwin, Liam Neeson, Arnold Swartzenegger, are Hollywood elitists who have criticized this countries right to keep and bear arms in the past. Yet they make their violent, shootem'-up movies that make them millions and millions of dollars. Then when there is a shooting in a school they point the finger at you, the law abiding gun owner who had nothing to do with it any of it. Piss on him. Hope they burn him.

 

[markT]

We know they were vaccinated But what is important is, Was he or the victim wearing a mask?

 

[LHSmith]

As the Exec Producer, I don't see how Baldwin gets out of this without serious legal problems. He ignored several warnings via on-set firearm mishaps in the previous days. Supposedly his production company was losing money, so he comprised peoples safety. Judging by his past actions he was not an honorable person.

 

[Old Navy]

There was horseplay involved! Law enforcement has not yet made the root cause public info.