Alec Baldwin Case Status

[M-61]

“The analysis from experts in ballistics and forensic testing relied on replacement parts to reassemble the gun fired by Baldwin, after parts of the pistol were broken during testing by the FBI. The report examined the gun and markings it left on a spent cartridge to conclude that the trigger had to have been pulled or depressed.”

Pure bullshit. First how did you ‘break’ the pistol? Beat it with a hammer? What ‘broke’. Tough questions the defense will ask.
Now for the REAL problem:
You can exam the gun and the marking it left on the spent cartridge for the rest of your life under any and all microscopes known to man. Any and/or all the markings on the spent cartridge in no way, under any circumstances, nor any imaginable device, will tell you anything about the trigger. In fact it won’t even tell you if the trigger was even IN the weapon. They are in no way connected mechanically nor even imaginary have any relationship to each other never mind leaving a mark or scratching.
The above is stated by a trained, licensed, paid, former armorer who is , in this case an EXPERT with this firearm and ALL its variants. And unlike the forever incompetent FBI will not break or damage this weapon in any testing to prove this point. In fact the ‘breaking’ of the weapon by the FBI in their testing only enforces the complete incompetence of any and all ‘testers’.
Therefore, this moronic Baldwin should not be concerned by these findings.
This is not a testament to Baldwins sanity rather an accurate statement refuting the absurdity of the test.

 

[Cecil S.]

“The analysis from experts in ballistics and forensic testing relied on replacement parts to reassemble the gun fired by Baldwin, after parts of the pistol were broken during testing by the FBI. The report examined the gun and markings it left on a spent cartridge to conclude that the trigger had to have been pulled or depressed.”

Pure bullshit. First how did you ‘break’ the pistol? Beat it with a hammer? What ‘broke’. Tough questions the defense will ask.
Now for the REAL problem:
You can exam the gun and the marking it left on the spent cartridge for the rest of your life under any and all microscopes known to man. Any and/or all the markings on the spent cartridge in no way, under any circumstances, nor any imaginable device, will tell you anything about the trigger. In fact it won’t even tell you if the trigger was even IN the weapon. They are in no way connected mechanically nor even imaginary have any relationship to each other never mind leaving a mark or scratching.
The above is stated by a trained, licensed, paid, former armorer who is , in this case an EXPERT with this firearm and ALL its variants. And unlike the forever incompetent FBI will not break or damage this weapon in any testing to prove this point. In fact the ‘breaking’ of the weapon by the FBI in their testing only enforces the complete incompetence of any and all ‘testers’.
Therefore, this moronic Baldwin should not be concerned by these findings.
This is not a testament to Baldwins sanity rather an accurate statement refuting the absurdity of the test.

All gray matter thrown at the case to cover his guilt is how I feel.

 

[M-61]

All gray matter thrown at the case to cover his guilt is how I feel.

Yes. I tried to convey that thought as well as my feelings about the FBI.
And, yes, I am/was an armorer.
That’s not bullshit. Fact.
Smooth sailing for the defense ahead.
I hope he pays dearly.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Curious...asking for a friend...does anyone here know how a SAA fires? I mean, step by step, mechanically? Cause his initial defense was it just went off.

Yes, sarcasm....

I'm pretty familiar but there are variants and I really don't want to get into all of that for a discussion. Bottom line is, and it hasn't, nor should it change...every gun is loaded and capable of firing. That's the rule and there are no exceptions. That's my 2 cents and I see no reason to make exceptions, Hollywiered or anywhere else.

 

[Rwfish]

It just shows how lax and arrogant Hollywood is even though they preach differently. Would anyone on this forum take a handgun they were handed by even their best friend or family and point it at someone because they were told it’s safe? Sorry, not happening. Whether he pulled the trigger or it went off itself it was pointed at someone by him. That’s negligence, a death resulted, so negligent homicide…. I bet he has Swetty Balls now!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

It just shows how lax and arrogant Hollywood is even though they preach differently. Would anyone on this forum take a handgun they were handed by even their best friend or family and point it at someone because they were told it’s safe? Sorry, not happening. Whether he pulled the trigger or it went off itself it was pointed at someone by him. That’s negligence, a death resulted, so negligent homicide…. I bet he has Swetty Balls now!

I opened my shop in around 1999 or so. Every single gun was opened to chamber check it even if the customer said it was empty and even if it was allegedly unable to fire. No exceptions, period. A simple but effective practice, by any standards

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that the whole thing about whether he pulled the trigger or not misses an important point. The first thing that he should have done when he picked up the pistol was to check it to see if it was loaded. If he had the live round would have been discovered. When you pick start to handle a firearm, the first order of business is to point it in a safe direction and determine if it is loaded. There were a lot of things that were done incorrectly on that set with regard to safety that should have made a reasonable person even more cautious about handling a weapon, and skeptical as to whether it was unloaded.

 

[skeeljc]

Some thoughts:
1. The director wanted the scene look real. That means trigger finger inside the trigger guard and dummy rounds with real looking bullets visible in the chambers for the camera to see.
2. When Alex made his quick draw he had to have a firm grip on the revolver. Executing that firm grip without pressing the trigger requires practice.
3. Alex probably had no idea that the gun could be fired by pressing the trigger, thumbing the hammer back and releasing the hammer.

 

[wedgy]

When did FoxNews.com succumb to the paywall model?
-

about 2 weeks ago so I have been going to google news and look at the US and World news sections

 

[wedgy]

The gun was loaded with dummy rounds that have a BB inside to rattle and distinguish it from a line round and it is the armorers job to do this.

https://medium.com/@Ethan_Montoya/dummies-in-the-movies-3f1a48d9ed7
To be assured that only dummies are in a gun, the armorer will shake every cartridge immediately before loading it in a gun.

Although some filmmakers might feel that other crew members can correctly identify a dummy, they should only be handled by the armorer or qualified member of the prop crew. No one else.
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Standard safety protocols are that all guns are to be handed to an actor or stunt person ONLY by the Armorer, Prop Master or qualified member of the prop crew. The gun’s action will be opened and the loaded condition shown to that person. Face to face understanding and any questions answered.


Dummy ammunition rounds are used to visually represent real live ammunition cartridges for a variety of prop purposes. Typically, a filmed closeup shot of an actor loading a gun, but also in loaded cartridge belts, loaded magazines, an actor with a handful of bullets, etc.

Armorers can decide whether to purchase commercially made dummies or make their own. Commercial dummies have a hole drilled in the case which can be problematic in certain scenes. I chose to make my own.

Dummies are made off-set to strict standards by Prop Masters and/or Armorers and/or those few companies supplying the film industry and historical re-enactors. The procedure, which varies slightly by personal choices of the armorer, is as follows:

The bullet (projectile) is removed from a live factory cartridge with a bullet puller tool. The gunpowder is dumped into a container of water.

At this point there are two choices depending on the specific film requirements.

1st) For filming close-ups of an actor loading a gun etc, the primer must appear unfired. Without a “dimple” from being struck with a firing pin. (see photo)

2nd) For dummies that only appear in gunbelts and other wide and medium shots the dimple does not matter because the camera will never see it.

In the 1st method the manufacturer’s primer is un-seated and pushed out of the cartridge case with a tool designed for the purpose. That primer is disposed of in a container of lubricating oil or other similar liquid to render it inert. It is later disposed of permanently. A new primer which has been soaked in oil and is therefore inert and incapable of detonation, is inserted in the cartridge case with a primer seating tool. Following this a BB is placed in the cartridge case. The next step is to reseat the bullet into the cartridge case. The final step which is common in commercially made dummies, is to drill a tiny hole in the case. Visually the dummy is identical to a real live round, but when shaking it, a distinct rattle can be heard identifying it as a dummy.

The second method is for dummies that will only be filmed at various distances. The bullet is removed and the powder disposed of in water. Then the cartridge is loaded in a gun which is then fired to detonate the primer. This leaves a dimple in the primer which is an obvious indicator that it has been detonated and is safe. It’s another way of identifying an inert dummy. I still used to put a BB or little metal bead in the case before reseating the bullet.

Of course, as in all procedures, there are a few more technical considerations and handling procedures, but these are the standard safety methods armorers have used for many years. They are basically universal, production to production.

 

[D Coots]

A. As an actor why would I actually aim directly at the person?

B. How about the civil suit coming?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

He was/is the producer, responsible for a safe work environment. Responsible for employees who oversee all aspects of props,equipment, activities and safety relating to producing the product. He HAS to KNOW procedures(who can check and handle/preparation of firearms). If he lied in any formal statement about HIS ACTIONS that is also a crime.
Charged again with manslaughter.

 

[jelenko]

clear it just to make sure

Absolutely!
I want to wring peoples' neck that waive a firearm around and say "Nah, it's not loaded"

 

[BoydAllen]

Just to be clear Baldwin should not be allowed the standard industry practice defense, because the standards were not followed on the set. Here is just one source. At the time reports mentioning other things were in much greater abundance than a search revealed today.

'Fast and loose': 'Rust' crew member quit over lack of safety day before fatal accident

Lane Luper, the A-camera first assistant, cited discontinued safety meetings and accidental use of explosives in his resignation email to producers.

www.nbcnews.com

Another:

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.

www.latimes.com

And another:

‘Rust’ Production Was Chaotic Prior to Fatal Prop Gun Accident, Producers Launch Internal Safety Review

Several crew members on the set of "Rust," where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed Thursday by a prop gun shot by Alec Baldwin.

variety.com

In the construction industry, there are inspectors that are not employees of the construction firm or the property owner who have the ability to shut down a building site for safety violations, and others who inspect work to make sure that it is properly done. It seems that the film industry lacks these sorts of protections. Given that, it is hard to take their talk of standards seriously.

 

[markT]

The only thing that should be considered in this entire situation is the current New Mexico law. We all know that laws don’t matter these days, but that should be it. In the end, Alec will be cleared of any wrong doing and a case to make purchasing or owning a firearm for law abiding citizens will be made.
Poor victim.

 

[284winner]

The Democrat Party works in mysterious ways.

No doubt that the Hollywood elitists apitomize the liberals and they for the most part are held to a different standard. That could never be more clear today. The fact that Baldwin is Hollywood alone means he's held to a different standard. Money talks basically. He's bought his freedom pretty much. Compare the Daniel Penny case to Baldwins. Baldwin shot an innocent woman with a gun he pointed at her with dozens of witnesses that know that's exactly what happened. Penny restrained a man from doing harm he threatened on a subway and death occurred. There was never a doubt Penny was going to be on trial. After over 2 years, were just finding out Baldwin is going to be indicted. Let's all put on our surprise faces.

 

[markT]

^^ One has a political component , the other has racial component.
One killed an immigrant, the other killed an African "Merican."
Justice ain’t blind. Sadly.

 

[Camper]

A. As an actor why would I actually aim directly at the person?

B. How about the civil suit coming?

I believe he settled that civil suit in record time.... hoping it would make him look good in the prosecutor's eyes. lol He did what he could to make it go away for his own benefit.

 

[rwj]

I got my ass beat by my parents in my youth for what I did wrong. They made it very clear that was all that mattered and would not listen to a litany of reasons/excuses leading up to my actions. I alone was accountable!

Perhaps I’m just a simpleton living in a complex world and can’t understand the current logic… or lack thereof? Halya Hutchins is dead, by all evidence presented to date, Alec Baldwin was the last person to handle the firearm that fired the fatal shot. No question in my mind that he is responsible and should be held accountable.

 

[6BRA]

Read somewhere that the gun had a modified trigger installed and the FBI was actually able to get it to fire without a trigger pull.
Is this something you would do for fast fanning?

The FBI can make anything happen! This makes me feel assured. Lol...