Accuracy: Bolt vs Semi Auto

[C.E.Smith043]

This might be a stupid question, and I'm sure that the answer is bolt gun, but I still want opinions.

I've shot bolt guns my entire life, ie... Winchester, Remington, Savage. I just recently started to play with semi autos, namely the AR-15 in 223.

Heres my question. Dollar for dollar invested, do you think a bolt gun would always be more accurate than a semi auto AR-15? For instance, if I was to spend $3000 having a custom AR built and a custom Bolt Gun built (with accuracy being the upmost importance) which one would most likely shoot the best. Lets say for a prarie dog gun.

 

[Richard Coody]

I would say the bolt gun. Much easier to get the accuracy out of.

ARs are so hard on the brass. You will shoot a lot more of it too!

One AR i owned would make a great PD rifle. Robert Whitley 6mm AR turbo 40. Honest .25 gun. 6mmAR is the website.

Kind of drifted away from the ARs

 

[chkunz]

I have been shooting the AR in mid range matches for the past few years and I decided to build the ultimate 223 bolt rifle to see if I could shoot better scores with the bolt gun. Common opinion says the bolt gun should outshoot the AR. At this point I have much more match time with the AR and just getting started with the bolt gun but I have to say that so far the AR is still ahead.

 

[JORTZ]

I have a custom sr25 in 6.5 creed it very accurate around 1 moa out to 1k. Not benchrest or custom bolt accuracy but still great. I love mine im also the type that has to be different so i shoot ar guns at long range.
Only problem with ars are your restricted to mag lenth.

This might be a stupid question, and I'm sure that the answer is bolt gun, but I still want opinions.

I've shot bolt guns my entire life, ie... Winchester, Remington, Savage. I just recently started to play with semi autos, namely the AR-15 in 223.

Heres my question. Dollar for dollar invested, do you think a bolt gun would always be more accurate than a semi auto AR-15? For instance, if I was to spend $3000 having a custom AR built and a custom Bolt Gun built (with accuracy being the upmost importance) which one would most likely shoot the best. Lets say for a prarie dog gun.

 

[joshb]

Not a stupid question. I spent a ton of money figuring it out for myself. I should have asked this question to start, although I do like my "accurate" semi's. The answer is bolt gun, hands down. I should mention the Stag 6. One of the most accurate "out of the box " AR's I own. It cost me about $1100, four or five years ago. Try one and you won't be disappointed. I now shoot bolt guns, 95 percent of the time. I'm amazed at how accurate they can be. Read as much as you can, here. It can be "life changing".

 

[gme]

I have owned, and seen some very accurate AR's but when it comes to accuracy potential, that would got to the system with fewer moving parts

 

[JORTZ]

This might be a stupid question, and I'm sure that the answer is bolt gun, but I still want opinions.

I've shot bolt guns my entire life, ie... Winchester, Remington, Savage. I just recently started to play with semi autos, namely the AR-15 in 223.

Heres my question. Dollar for dollar invested, do you think a bolt gun would always be more accurate than a semi auto AR-15? For instance, if I was to spend $3000 having a custom AR built and a custom Bolt Gun built (with accuracy being the upmost importance) which one would most likely shoot the best. Lets say for a prarie dog gun.

Sorry to answer your ? I have around 2200 in my gun and it shoots just as good as a 2200 bolt gun but u get up into the 3k plus custom
Benchrest fclass ect guns it probably would out shoot mine 8 out of 10 times. It also has alot to do with the shooter

 

[chkunz]

As to the AR being hard on brass, I am on my fifth firing and no problems with the brass (Remington brass). I do not over load my brass, my pet load is a good stiff load but not max. I bought Laupa brass for the bolt gun. BTW off the bench at 100 yards with many 10 shot groups my pet loads with the AR are about the same as with the bolt gun. And as you say both guns are in the $3K range. I continue to be amazed at the accuracy of the AR, Stoner was a genius.

 

[chkunz]

Gary, I agree completely and I can only report on two guns, my WOA AR and my tube gun (with Eliseo tube stock). They both shoot really well and I have a lot more time with the AR but in a year or two I will know which gives me the best score. I am betting on the bolt gun but the scores will answer the question.

 

[chkunz]

Busheler, I am just saying that the two guns I am shooting (AR and bolt gun) are comparable in price (they both are quality). My project was intended to answer the question, can I shoot better scores with the bolt gun than the AR. I agree that the bolt gun should win and I will know if I live long enough to shoot the bolt gun enough for a meaningful comparison. I am driven by data over opinion.

 

[js2013]

Dollar for dollar invested, do you think a bolt gun would always be more accurate than a semi auto AR-15? F

Always? I'd say no especially at the lower prices. But as the price goes up then yes the odds for bolt guns get much much much better.

 

[jepp2]

Lets say for a prairie dog gun.

I will answer this specifically for PD's. I don't have a 3K custom built gun, but for me my AR's shoot as good or better than my bolt guns. But! In the field for PD's, my AR's will greatly out kill my bolt guns. My caliber preference is 20 Practical which has a huge advantage.

On the subject of brass life, I read where folks toss their AR brass after X loads (put your own value in for X but most talk 3-5 reloads). So I picked up 20 once fired LC brass at the range, and proceeded to load and shoot them every trip to the range. The brass lasted 30-35 firings, and the failures were predominately (18 of 20) due to small tears in the neck from a new barrel extension. I have since eliminated that issue. So at least for me, brass life isn't a factor with my AR's.

Maybe I'm cheap, but I wouldn't take a $3K rifle in the field for PD's. And the very slight advantage you might get in accuracy will be washed out in ranging error and wind - at least it would for me.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Thanks so much for the info

 

[people]

Bolt. Now with that being said almost all of my pd rifles are AR15's. When using a free floating tube an AR can be very accurate. I want kills when I shoot pd. A semiautomatic is where it is at.

 

[carlsbad]

As I've repeatedly said in bolt gun threads, 99% of the accuracy is in the barrel. So if you have a bartlein or similar barrel turned for your gas gun, it should be pretty danged accurate. I have a 223 with a 24" criterion barrel that shoots 1/2 to 3/4 moa. Better than I expected.

Now I haven't looked at SD of the MV with gassers much. I don't think the moving bolt and gas powered action will affect it much but would want to confirm that. Important for longer distances.

Given the limits of magazine feeding and brass handling, I don't see gas guns ever taking over for bolt actions ever. But if I needed a precision rifle with fast followup shots, I could confidently build one.

--Jerry

 

[AckleymanII]

One major consideration on barrel life is length of the magazine...you simply can not chase the lands as the leade grows. Finding the "sweet spot" for accuracy, then chasing that OAL as the leade grows is a deal killer in a gas gun. This OAL issue leads to using Bullets with less BC, which is another painful fact, especially past 1000 yards.

It is a hobby, have fun with it your way.

 

[BoydAllen]

If someone tells you that a semiautomatic shoots as well as a bolt gun, you might want to note what kind of shooting they do. For instance if they are a highpower competitor then they may be right because their ability to hold the rifle is really the limiting factor. One can build a bolt rifle that can Agg around a quarter inch at 100 yards for a reasonable amount of money, compared to what the most accurate ARs sell for. I do not know of any AR that will AGG a quarter inch. From the answers that you have seen in this thread it should be quite apparent that accuracy means different things to different people, and there is nothing unusual or wrong about that. We all get to use our own definitions. Many shooters who do not compete are really talking about what I call wallet groups that are the best that a particular rifle has shot. That is a lot different than an aggregate shot under match rules. Both are just fine for their intended purposes, but one should not be confused with the other.

 

[Intheshop]

There's also;shooting competitively means we show up to,time/place and deal with the conditions vs only going out on Bluebird days and shooting groups at leisure.

 

[chkunz]

One major consideration on barrel life is length of the magazine...you simply can not chase the lands as the leade grows. Finding the "sweet spot" for accuracy, then chasing that OAL as the leade grows is a deal killer in a gas gun. This OAL issue leads to using Bullets with less BC, which is another painful fact, especially past 1000 yards.

It is a hobby, have fun with it your way.

One minor point, for slow fire in NRA and CMP High Power rifle competition we load one round at a time and are therefore not restricted to magazine length ammo. This does however become a factor for the rapid fire events but we get a big target and can clean the rapid fire target with magazine length ammo even with thousands of rounds thru the barrel.

 

[RustyMetal]

I agree. It is not a stupid question at all. It is also a question that could be a good conversation thread about the finer points of equipment accuracy.

I think that all other things being equal, the bolt action will always be a tiny bit more accurate.

I believe it has to do with shooting from a tight and trued action, compared to a moving semi-auto bolt group. And through a barrel that is not bleeding off gasses yet further to rack the bolt back to load a new round in the chamber.

Truer bullet delivery at maximum velocity, for a given cartridge.