Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
I can't wait to get the equipment list from SWN. I'd bet that most of the competitors (save the one 300 WSM I saw) in the top 20 were shooting loads that would pass muster per the OP's ME calculations.
Acceptable Range Restrictions for International F-Class World Championships?
- Thread starter ThunderDownUnder
- Start date
The thing with the muzzle energy restriction in place at Belmont, (Australia) is that it effectively eliminates the 30 cals from the contest. The 30 cals need to shoot the 215 and 230gr bullets to be competitive with the 284s. Obviously the heavier the bullet the greater the ME for the same velocity. While the restriction of 3500ft-lbs lets the 284s shoot the 180gr bullets competitively at 2960fps shooting the 215s at 2700fps and the 230s at 2600fps rules them out of contention.
Allowing the 30 cals to be eliminated from a Worlds Comp is something I consider to be completely counter productive to competitive F-Open and would result in a defacto 7mm, F-O T/R restricted class.
We definitely need, (In my opinion) ICFRA to step up and set a minimum allowable restriction that would allow the 30 cals to compete at a competitive level. If this is not possible then the F-Class Worlds Comp should be moved to range that will allow it!
Ian
PS a fellow Oz shooter stated in this thread that his range at Belmont allows the big cals to shoot unrestricted. He is partly correct in that the range he is talking about is the SSAA range and not the NRAA or F-Class range. Maybe the NRAA could get the restriction lifted like the neighboring range and allow unrestricted international competition.
Allowing the 30 cals to be eliminated from a Worlds Comp is something I consider to be completely counter productive to competitive F-Open and would result in a defacto 7mm, F-O T/R restricted class.
We definitely need, (In my opinion) ICFRA to step up and set a minimum allowable restriction that would allow the 30 cals to compete at a competitive level. If this is not possible then the F-Class Worlds Comp should be moved to range that will allow it!
Ian
PS a fellow Oz shooter stated in this thread that his range at Belmont allows the big cals to shoot unrestricted. He is partly correct in that the range he is talking about is the SSAA range and not the NRAA or F-Class range. Maybe the NRAA could get the restriction lifted like the neighboring range and allow unrestricted international competition.
280man said:
No...no...no...Jensen; you are entirely missing the point! I'm just trying to get everyone's "golf bag" down to no more than 2 rifles, so you won't be offended by the majority of us flashing our wealth!! ;D.Biggs 8)
ARIZONA_F_CLASS
FTR LR High Master, FTR MR Master, Smalbore Master
dannyjbiggs said:280man said:
Biggs 8)
2 rifles, 10 bolts and 24 barrels. lol
Rick, you are right about plenty of open space downunder but we also have plenty of firearm rules and regulations. Generally not a problem for target F-Class rifle shooters, but it would be nice if international events had an ICFRA maximum acceptable range restriction clause.
I would like to see F-Open remain as OPEN as possible and would not want to see international F-Open restricted to only 7mm and below. If ICFRA wants to change the F-Open rules to restrict calibers because of a ground swell from members to do it, then well and good, but the rules allow for up to 8mm at present.
We need an acceptable bottom line limit on range restrictions for international events and I would like to see 30 cals included and not excluded!
As for ranges in Australia for you to shoot your 50 cals, well they dont exist and to the best of my knowledge are illegal for civilians to own. When I see what you guys can own and shoot in the US of A, well I am just in awe! Gotta get over there one day and and have a shoot.
Ian
I would like to see F-Open remain as OPEN as possible and would not want to see international F-Open restricted to only 7mm and below. If ICFRA wants to change the F-Open rules to restrict calibers because of a ground swell from members to do it, then well and good, but the rules allow for up to 8mm at present.
We need an acceptable bottom line limit on range restrictions for international events and I would like to see 30 cals included and not excluded!
As for ranges in Australia for you to shoot your 50 cals, well they dont exist and to the best of my knowledge are illegal for civilians to own. When I see what you guys can own and shoot in the US of A, well I am just in awe! Gotta get over there one day and and have a shoot.
Ian
280man said:
I'm with Rick here, as long as we are informed well ahead of time, it's just a part of the game...
G'day Thunderdownunder
Interesting day at the range and maybe also strange.
Had a talk to the committee bloke involved at the ssaa range today, he has been involved in all areas of the safety for the ssaa belmont he gave me the run down on the safety template well apparently there is a power restriction at the ssaa it is 4182ft lbs and max 4350 fps, the restricted calibers I mentioned in the previous post were in fact an actual directive from the police weapons licensing saying that anything else is good to go but not any of the calibers stated in the window of the office, now when I asked him about this he told me he had been asked or contacted about these restrictions by numerous people over the past 3 weeks and in all his time as range liaison he had never been asked before, now his idea that there would be a power restriction on only part of the range when all 4 ranges are firing into the same safety template and bearing in mind that the military and benchrest blokes on the other side are shooting big calibers seems to him like either a mistake on info, a misdirection or some other motive that he can't find out yet. ....... that's the interesting part.
Now when me and a few mates were testing today we met a few blokes from the full bore range next door who were also testing at ssaa, they were shooting f class guns, now when I asked them if they new anything of this restriction they said that it is all part of Australian full bore's way of trying to limit f class shooting in Australia as the full bore side of there shooting is now on the down slope and there type of f class shooting is going up ( this f class shooting sounds good fun) they said this is only part of it as recently the f class shooters were told they would not receive a queen medal at some big shooting meeting as the British NRA were not going to allow it, but when a couple of blokes contacted them to find out why they made this decision only for Australia they said they new nothing about it and from the number of people contacting them were starting to get pissed off.
The 2 blokes also told us that not even a 22-250 could not be shot next door according to this new restriction and that the s... fan is now in full operation as it is limiting certain shooters from coming to their big shoots and as this is the range used for there big championship in Australia including the commonwealth games, they also told us that Australia is the f class champs, apparently there is a ground swell for legal action to be taken from
f class shooters across the country considering they now realize that you can shoot on this side at the ssaa, you can shoot on the other side at the benchrest range but you cannot shoot in the middle on the same safety template, lets say these blokes were not happy about it to say the least and believe it to be part of the Australian full bore to limit their membership. .........That's the strange part!
The one thing I can say is if we Aussie's are going to save shooting in this country we would be better pulling together and not have the rest of the shooting world looking at us and shaking there head in disbelief.
RalfyB
Interesting day at the range and maybe also strange.
Had a talk to the committee bloke involved at the ssaa range today, he has been involved in all areas of the safety for the ssaa belmont he gave me the run down on the safety template well apparently there is a power restriction at the ssaa it is 4182ft lbs and max 4350 fps, the restricted calibers I mentioned in the previous post were in fact an actual directive from the police weapons licensing saying that anything else is good to go but not any of the calibers stated in the window of the office, now when I asked him about this he told me he had been asked or contacted about these restrictions by numerous people over the past 3 weeks and in all his time as range liaison he had never been asked before, now his idea that there would be a power restriction on only part of the range when all 4 ranges are firing into the same safety template and bearing in mind that the military and benchrest blokes on the other side are shooting big calibers seems to him like either a mistake on info, a misdirection or some other motive that he can't find out yet. ....... that's the interesting part.
Now when me and a few mates were testing today we met a few blokes from the full bore range next door who were also testing at ssaa, they were shooting f class guns, now when I asked them if they new anything of this restriction they said that it is all part of Australian full bore's way of trying to limit f class shooting in Australia as the full bore side of there shooting is now on the down slope and there type of f class shooting is going up ( this f class shooting sounds good fun) they said this is only part of it as recently the f class shooters were told they would not receive a queen medal at some big shooting meeting as the British NRA were not going to allow it, but when a couple of blokes contacted them to find out why they made this decision only for Australia they said they new nothing about it and from the number of people contacting them were starting to get pissed off.
The 2 blokes also told us that not even a 22-250 could not be shot next door according to this new restriction and that the s... fan is now in full operation as it is limiting certain shooters from coming to their big shoots and as this is the range used for there big championship in Australia including the commonwealth games, they also told us that Australia is the f class champs, apparently there is a ground swell for legal action to be taken from
f class shooters across the country considering they now realize that you can shoot on this side at the ssaa, you can shoot on the other side at the benchrest range but you cannot shoot in the middle on the same safety template, lets say these blokes were not happy about it to say the least and believe it to be part of the Australian full bore to limit their membership. .........That's the strange part!
The one thing I can say is if we Aussie's are going to save shooting in this country we would be better pulling together and not have the rest of the shooting world looking at us and shaking there head in disbelief.
RalfyB
Interesting info RalfyB!
I know for a fact that there is a range restriction in place at Belmont on the NRAA managed ranges and its 3500ft-lbs and also a velocity limit. If you or anyone else wants a copy of their Range Certificate, (restrictions listed) just email me and I will send it to you.
Hopefully the QRA can match your SSAA restrictions for their ranges and we can shoot the 30 cals competitively in F-Open. Failing that there is always Lower Light Rifle Range in South Australia that could handle a F-Class World Championships unrestricted.
Regardless of the mess in Oz, I would really like to see ICFRA consult with members and come up with a max range restriction allowable for F-Class international competitions. I for one dont want to see limits introduced at ranges that would restrict us down to shooting 130gr projectiles out of a 6.5mm rifle in F-Open!
Ian
I know for a fact that there is a range restriction in place at Belmont on the NRAA managed ranges and its 3500ft-lbs and also a velocity limit. If you or anyone else wants a copy of their Range Certificate, (restrictions listed) just email me and I will send it to you.
Hopefully the QRA can match your SSAA restrictions for their ranges and we can shoot the 30 cals competitively in F-Open. Failing that there is always Lower Light Rifle Range in South Australia that could handle a F-Class World Championships unrestricted.
Regardless of the mess in Oz, I would really like to see ICFRA consult with members and come up with a max range restriction allowable for F-Class international competitions. I for one dont want to see limits introduced at ranges that would restrict us down to shooting 130gr projectiles out of a 6.5mm rifle in F-Open!
Ian
That's kinda what I'm thinking, how many people does it really affect? To me it is like Nascar running restricted engines. They put in some restrictions, but they all end up going damn fast.Busdriver said:
Am I correct in thinking that you have ranges which are unrestricted but they are in the outback and might not be too popular with overseas shooters if they have subpar facilities? Looking at the website this range is in the middle of a city next to an international airport.
maxpower said:
We have excellent unrestricted rifle ranges next to capital cities which could be used for international competitions and Lower Light, (http://www.longrangeshooting.com.au/) is one that is suitable. The NRAA HQ is at Belmont rifle range in Queensland and that is the range that has the 3500ft-lb restriction. Its a beautiful rifle range and obviously the NRAA want to use this range which is fine for international TR and Palma but very limiting for F-Class and in particular F-Open.
If they were to raise the restriction to the same as the neighboring SSAA rifle range then it would be perfect for international F-Class competition!
That is why I am saying we need ICFRA to set a max allowable range restriction for international F-Class events so that the character of F-Class and in particular F-Open can remain as intended by rule and by those that shoot it.
This would apply equally to all countries and maybe remove some of the administrative politics out of it and have the priority reset to back to the discipline and rule of the sport!
Ian
Thunderdownunder the problem is the restriction is a police one. Regardless of what ICFRA does the local police rule. What interests and Ps me off big time, when the Queens badge issue raised its head the 7mm crowd went super sonic but the restriction has hardly caused a ripple. Wonder why bet they being the 7mm crowd police the restriction to the letter sorry lbs.
Bindi2 said:
Bindi2, All I'm saying is that range restrictions for international comps are an international problem and need an international solution. The Oz range at Belmont is not suitable at present for F-Open to shoot the 30 cals, and for me that completely takes away from the character of F-Open! Other ranges in Australia could be used for international F-Class comps.
I would like to know what the international community think about calling on our ICFRA representatives to designate an acceptable max restriction limit. Then the countries wanting to hold a FC World Comp would use the appropriate ranges that comply.
Do we want to limit F-Open to 7mm and below? if we do then lets change the rules to reflect what the competition is evolving into!
I personally dont want to see something as prestigious as the Worlds deteriorate into something less because of range restrictions destroying the diversity of what an OPEN class provides.
Ian
The ICFRA rules are out there now changing them will not have any effect on the local police or military rules where ever. If Belmont is not up to what the ICFRA rules dictate is allowable then tough on the Belmont people they don't qualify to hold a shoot. Change the local rule and leave the international alone.
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