F-Class @ Camp Perry - 2015

[XTR]

Yea, fly, and deal with the logistics of shipping front rests that weigh who knows how much, rear bags full of heavy sand that push 30 lbs, two rifles (seriously, who goes to a national w/o a backup), and ammo. You still need room for your mat, spotting scope (most probably don't have a shipping case for that), scope stand. Probably cheaper to buy a new cleaning rod and cleaning supplies and have them shipped to the motel, then give them away when you leave, add in a rental car. And hope nothing essential doesn't show up.

You will spend more on shipping than on airfare. (and the cheapest 60 day advance from TYS to PHX today is close to $500)


Yea, that trip will set you back more than a new NF competition by the time you are though.

Yes it's faster than driving the 1850miles from Knoxville (28 hours if you average 65), or 2100+ from Greensboro but it's going to be a logistical and financial challenge. (unless you drive over 12 hours a day it's three days each way)


(which reminds me I need to start looking for a case for my spotting scope before next yr.)

 

[Steve Blair]

Fly? And have a bunch of monkeys play football with my gun case between plane changes only to somehow lose it, be strip search by a TSA agent wearing a turbin who can't speak English, and then set between the two fattest, smelliest people on Earth? I'll pass..

[br]
Jim, you could just borrow the Dassault, right?

 

[boltman13]

This has been a very interesting topic. I can see the merits of all the different positions taken, and the demerits as well. What to do? I certainly do not pretend to know the answer. Entering my 3rd year as a F-Class competitor, having come over to the dark side from sling I am hooked on the sport. It has become my favorite, to the elimination of almost all other competition. I want the sport to grow both at the local level and nationally. My home range here in western Colorado has only 12 firing points, and we have no problem with capacity now. There is no way we could host a Regional or State championship at this time due to a lack of manpower to organize it and funds to sponsor it. Our biggest range in Colorado would have room for only 80 shooters at most. Having attended the last 4 Berger SW Nationals I can't say enough about how well run these events have been. It is the highlight of my shooting year. The people at Ben Avery are so good at putting on a large match, but they can't be expected to do this for other ranges, nor should they be expected to do it every year. Now that I am retired I hope to be able to attend several National Matches, and would be able to travel much more . Smaller ranges, holding Regionals, or State Championships are definitely in my future plans as well. It is good that our competition is growing, instead of shrinking like some. To me the best solution for awarding the Nationals, is to open it to any range that has the capacity to handle at least 400 shooters and the manpower to run the match correctly. Keep MR and LR separate and rotate both among interested ranges capable of doing it. Just my opinion. Hope to see some of you in Phoenix in February.

 

[falconpilot]

Steve

The thought has crossed my mind, but I'm sure the boss will miss it ;D

 

[ericskennard]

With no disrespect meant to other disciplines, F-Class is the up and coming sport. I have seen that at my own Port Malabar Rifle & Pistol Club in Florida. Yes we still have some Mid Range Prone competitors. Across the course has dwindled to only a few. But F-Class has grown and grown. The F-Class competitors dominate our matches. If not for them, we could not afford a rifle program.

So let's work together and see how we can best improve the sport. The technology for F-Class and F-TR grows by leaps and bounds. We sure have come along way from the old flip down bipod!

How can we accommodate more competitors? It is a simple, if expensive answer, ELECTRONIC TARGETS!!! With electronic targets, European ranges handle thousands of competitors in less time. It is time the ranges here in the United States start thinking about the same thing.

Eric Kennard, President
Port Malabar Rifle & Pistol Club

 

[TonyR]

Or have paid target pullers. We accommodated 65 shooters on five relays, three matches each, using 13 targets at our Cabela's Mid-Atlantic Regional because we had paid pullers and did not have to do pit changes. It really moves things along.

 

[Immike]

Or have paid target pullers. We accommodated 65 shooters on five relays, three matches each, using 13 targets at our Cabela's Mid-Atlantic Regional because we had paid pullers and did not have to do pit changes. It really moves things along.

I've always thought that the Boy Scouts would be a able willing source for pullers. Too bad there isn't a badge for that.

 

[Scott Harris]

With no disrespect meant to other disciplines, F-Class is the up and coming sport. I have seen that at my own Port Malabar Rifle & Pistol Club in Florida. Yes we still have some Mid Range Prone competitors. Across the course has dwindled to only a few. But F-Class has grown and grown. The F-Class competitors dominate our matches. If not for them, we could not afford a rifle program.

So let's work together and see how we can best improve the sport. The technology for F-Class and F-TR grows by leaps and bounds. We sure have come along way from the old flip down bipod!

How can we accommodate more competitors? It is a simple, if expensive answer, ELECTRONIC TARGETS!!! With electronic targets, European ranges handle thousands of competitors in less time. It is time the ranges here in the United States start thinking about the same thing.

Eric Kennard, President
Port Malabar Rifle & Pistol Club

Electronic targets. That's probably the first real answer I've seen to how you could accommodate a lot more shooters without building a bigger range. The technology exists to allow more than one shooter fire on a point at the same time.....huge multiplier effect.

 

[Cochran]

How do electronic targets work when somebody crossfires on your target and doesn't claim it ? Is there still a score keeper watching you shoot and monitoring the screen ?

Jeff

 

[daniel.chisholm]

How do electronic targets work when somebody crossfires on your target and doesn't claim it ? Is there still a score keeper watching you shoot and monitoring the screen ?

Jeff

Electronic targets work the same way that manually marked targets do. If a shot is fired at the target and hits the target, the target tells you where the shot landed and what the scoring value of the shot is.

No more, no less.

Don't hit your target, your target tells you nothing. Shoot at another target by mistake, your target shows you nothing. Shoot at your target but your bullet blows up before it arrives, your target shows you nothing. Or have your bullet drift off target to the left, or fall short, or go high.... e-target tshows you nothing - which is exactly what arrived at your target.

The *interpretation* of this still needs the same rules, procedures, scorekeepers paying attention to what is going on, etc.

If someone else crossfires onto your target, your scorekeeper (had better!) realize that you did not fire your rifle, therefore a shot appearing on your target is irrelevant to your score and is not to be counted. General courtesy would suggest that it would be useful to announce to the neighboring scorekeepers and to the range officer that you have just received a crossfire, to help them sort out their problems.

The scorekeeper for the unfortunate shooter who just shot the crossfire, is hopefully on the ball enough to realize that his shooter fired and no shot arrived at the target. And therefore unless some system malfunction is discovered, he is about to assign his shooter a "0" for the shot just fired. Of course having the target next door or four doors down announce that an "extra" shot just arrived at that time will help everyone really determine exactly what happened, so that the scorekeeper can assign a "0" to his shooter with reasonable comfort that it is the correct value to be giving.

 

[Bob Sebold]

Plenty to do within 1/2 hour of Lodi. You guys don't have time to see it all! If you want 5 star restaurants there are at least five. You could go north to Wisconsin Dells or if you need you liberal fix (sleepy gator) you could check out all that Madison has to offer. Yicks!! You could go fishing at Lake Wisconsin, or you could also stay right near the range and drink beer. I think Raton has a lot to offer for that matter. You guys just need to find the right places. More targets will be added at Lodi, if I need to strangle someone I will. What else you southern crybabies want to complain about?

 

[Rtheurer]

Geez... I watch this thread with pure awe. How nice would it be to be concerned about having a range with not enough capacity to hold a National Championship? The Thread Eric Rud pointed out on another forum that has now gone over 400 posts is all about a shooting discipline that is dying in the Championships ranks. NRA XTC at Camp Perry is getting smaller and smaller every year. ( down to just a couple hundred from over 1000) Just wanted to point that out but understand it has nothing to do with your immediate dilemma.
On the other hand I would like to point out that the Bald Eagle club in Raton has run the Fullbore Nationals for many years now and has done such a fantastic job that I cant even imagine it being done any better. Many of you here have shot this match should agree with that. THEN it was moved to Camp Perry last year.. Uhfta..What a mess. I was actually embarrassed for the NRA and range personal for pit falls that happened.
Long Story short I would suggest a larger club typically holds a better event than the NRA itself. Or at least that is my experience. Camp Perry is cool to shoot at...But the matches are better at other venues.
RussT

 

[Va Jim]

Bob
Count me in for LODI. If they have it I will come, and if that means that FTR and open need to be separate to have it somewhat out East I am ok with that.

I am in favor of keeping it on a rotating basis as this keeps all of us on our toes. Lodi is totally different shooting that Phoenix. I also owe a butt kicking to THAT RANGE.

James Crofts
USA F-T/R Vice Captain

 

[Immike]

Same here Mr Sebold, my shooters will make your match. Already making plans. That mr Sebold thing will cost you a beer. Lol

 

[Bob Sebold]

Yeah, I didn't think you knew my Dad, mike. Anyway, going to a board of directors meeting on Wednesday night and fight it out. I hope new board members will listen to reason. Earl or I will try to keep you posted

 

[LRRiflemanSNJ]

Hello fellow shooters, I am new to this site, but I need to vent about the news that John shared.

I just found out about the relocation of the F class matches this morning. I honestly feel like I got kicked in the teeth. I can appreciate how shooters in other regions of the country may feel excluded from the matches when they are held at Camp Perry, I am not trying to deprive others from participating in this sport.

From my perspective, i suddenly feel excluded from the sport I love, and am physically able to participate in with my physical disability. I have competed at Camp Perry from 1988 to 2006 as a service rifle competitor, and then from 2011 to present working my way into F class as I conceded to the limitations of my injuries. Being between surgeries 23 and 24, I really don't want to travel more than half way across the country.

At this point, I don't even know if an F class shooter would be permitted to shoot at Perry this summer, even if they were not shooting for awards!

 

[davek]

I think it was kind of sad that the nra pulled the plug on the f class at perry, a experiment for sure, but the range is no where near full for the midrange shooters and the f class shooters there were not bothering anyone , quite afew new shooters were hurt , this was a chance to start something new and I think the nra blew it again bigtime. Midrange or nmc this year for the second week at perry ? Iam unsure at this time but at this rate , soon both will be gone for sure . davek .

 

[Heman]

Overall XTC and Mid Range aren't dying it is just at Camp Perry. I've heard nationally the numbers haven't dropped as greatly as the numbers have at Perry. The biggest problem at Perry as to why the numbers are falling is cost. Not necessarily the cost of the equipment as that is the same generally all over the US. The Port Clinton area knows what they have and they put it to the shooters and the volunteers in room rates of base but also the base itself. Because of the volunteer cost this is past on in the cost to host the matches and what the NRA can do. I forget what on base housing at Camp Perry costs but I know at Camp Atterbury you can get an individual room with queen bed, TV, internet, fridge, microwave, ac, with gang shower/bathroom for $27 a night. I know two years ago when I stayed in the barracks at Perry I paid more than this per night and it was crap.

There is a restaurant that has all you can eat ribs on Monday's that I frequent. I noticed this past year they had a different menu while I was up there for NRA week. During fullbore I was commuting from Findlay where their other restaurant is. The place in Findlay had the normal menu and the prices were lower. I am willing to bet that if I would got the Port Clinton right now they'd have their normal menu out and the prices would be inline with their Findlay restaurant.