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A very sad day in Maine and the country..Active shooter

gunsandgunsmithing said:
I see that differently. Identifiable or not, dead is dead. This is quite different than the 22 dead and 50ish injured being reported last night. Where did that misinformation come from? Still tragic...but plain wrong too. Maybe not miscounted, just misreported...or plain wrong either way. Very much appears that news source was simply reporting unsubstantiated rumors.
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I’m not sure when I stopped listening to the news.
Liars telling lies.
 
ErikET said:
I mean that's the nature of impairment. I'm a mental health clin and I have a whole career of anecdotes when working with folks, tons of folks get in trouble because the nature of alcohol is it impairs judgement, same with serious medical concerns, or mental illness.

People look for anything in their deteriorating condition for a reason to point and say "No I'm fine", case in point people dealing with mom/dad with dementia and they're hell bent on getting a car and cruising the world. Usual justification is "Well if I crash and I die, then it was my time!" but reality is usually they survive the crash, or kill someone else, or even run over a kid on a bike.

My own brother who is active duty tried to end his own life twice in the last 3 years before he was finally able to admit he had a serious problem and didn't try to cover it up. He's grounded now, well supported and gave up his weapons. I actually am very proud of him for realizing finally it was way outside of his control and wasn't safe, last 3 years were hell and he absolutely fixated on me as a blame target as I was a pretty obvious boundary that raised the alarm during his first attempt which was serious, sustained and quite violent.

Its not just "Personal" responsibility, which I like, and practice in spades, but we all collectively should hope for accountability, and accountability absolutely comes with risks, letting a friend know you're worried about them often comes with the standard response people oft give when they are faced with a dilemma they don't know how to navigate of "Deny, deflect, counterattack".

Its awful when someone at a range flags you, especially when we're with our kids, most people have no problem stepping in, but a lot of folks will hand waive it and just be like "Guy is a fool, we're out!" There is an element of risk to every bit of that.

We all navigate this with the resources we have, and connections we've made and the risks we're comfortable with, some of us are way better equipped than others, and we all have different ethics and points of view. I love to shoot, and will bring my kids, but if one of them later had active suicidal ideation, I'd frankly find a different past time all-together, because no amount of "What ifs" or worries over society are worth losing them, other folks would be like "I'll buy a safe!" neither are terrible responses.

Heck its a risk even writing this to some degree. Putting yourself out there comes with a lot of things.
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Respect your very on-point experiences, plus candor in sharing them, Erik. Starting where you end, these are tough subjects touched on. I know what you mean. If we found our way here, and then we chose to post, we are likely in family, social and employment settings, the more thoughtful and stalwart 2A members of the bunch and sometimes in unpleasant dynamics because of that. Long since decided I’ll just write in a way I’d be comfortable with any person at any time reading it.

Card seemed to see deterioration in his stability, along with others. I do appreciate the widerange and variables that certainly exist self-evaluation, cognitive differences in individuals and so forth, and then of course the fact that once good intentions and longevity are no longer a person’s operating assumptions, which is most of these occurrences, it all becomes irrelevant.

I don’t mean to imply that all ppl should or can handle everything upstairs, themselves. Ideally, maybe, but realistically, no, and there is certainly a constructive role for the mental heath care professionals.
 
davidjoe said:
Respect your very on-point experiences, plus candor in sharing them, Erik. Starting where you end, these are tough subjects touched on. I know what you mean. If we found our way here, and then we chose to post, we are likely in family, social and employment settings, the more thoughtful and stalwart 2A members of the bunch and sometimes in unpleasant dynamics because of that. Long since decided I’ll just write in a way I’d be comfortable with any person at any time reading it.

Card seemed to see deterioration in his stability, along with others. I do appreciate the widerange and variables that certainly exist self-evaluation, cognitive differences in individuals and so forth, and then of course the fact that once good intentions and longevity are no longer a person’s operating assumptions, which is most of these occurrences, it all becomes irrelevant.

I don’t mean to imply that all ppl should or can handle everything upstairs, themselves. Ideally, maybe, but realistically, no, and there is certainly a constructive role for the mental heath care professionals.
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Most of us are affected by addiction and similar issues, directly or indirectly. My sister died in her 40's, a schizophrenic alcoholic. Heart of gold but had her demons. Class president her senior year of hs and salutatorian. She was a good looking gal and had the world by the short and curlies but alcohol did her in. As with many, she really got into drugs and alcohol in college. Don't ever feel bad or think others don't have the same things going on in life. She got pretty bad going to college at David Lipscomb University, a Church of Christ Christian school in Nashville, Tn. Not enough partying there so transferred to WKU, notorious as a party school...but aren't they all, really. We're all different and life events affect us all differently. Still, all of that and more is no excuse for going on a shooting spree. The laws make it damn near impossible for these people to get the help they need. The problem is systematic. Frankly, she was crazy as could be at times but I know of no reason that she would've ever been denied a firearm purchase, ever. Lots of misdemeanors but never a felon and never adjudicated by a judge, as was frankly needed. She may well be alive today if the laws actually allowed her to be forcefully put into a longish term mental health facility. Those places hardly exist now because the law and society frowns upon them and doesn't want to deal with these people in the system. There's a fine line between our rights and the right thing to do.
 
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gunsandgunsmithing said:
Most of us are affected by addiction and similar issues, directly or indirectly. My sister died in her 40's, a schizophrenic alcoholic. Heart of gold but had her demons. Class president her senior year of hs and salutatorian. She was a good looking gal and had the world by the short and curlies but alcohol did her in. As with many, she really got into drugs and alcohol in college. Don't ever feel bad or think others don't have the same things going on in life. She got pretty bad going to college at David Lipscomb University, a Church of Christ Christian school in Nashville, Tn. Not enough partying there so transferred to WKU, notorious as a party school...but aren't they all, really. We're all different and life events affect us all differently. Still, all of that and more is no excuse for going on a shooting spree. The laws make it damn near impossible for these people to get the help they need. The problem is systematic. Frankly, she was crazy as could be at times but I know of no reason that she would've ever been denied a firearm purchase, ever. Lots of misdemeanors but never a felon and never adjudicated by a judge, as was frankly needed. She may well be alive today if the laws actually allowed her to be forcefully put into a longish term mental health facility. Those places hardly exist now because the law and society frowns upon them and doesn't want to deal with these people in the system. There's a fine line between our rights and the right thing to do.
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Killer found dead with a gunshot to the head.
 
One can't help but wonder in situations like this, why didn't he just shortcut to this finale and leave those innocents out of it? I reckon that's where the mental illness part comes in.
I don't know what major factor has caused this sort of event to become so commonplace, but I'm sure the seeds were planted many years ago. I suspect that sheer intransigence on both sides hampered the identification of the potential problem and the search for a solution. I would not be surprised to learn that social media has come to play a significant role. WH
 
Will Henry said:
One can't help but wonder in situations like this, why didn't he just shortcut to this finale and leave those innocents out of it? I reckon that's where the mental illness part comes in.
I don't know what major factor has caused this sort of event to become so commonplace, but I'm sure the seeds were planted many years ago. I suspect that sheer intransigence on both sides hampered the identification of the potential problem and the search for a solution. I would not be surprised to learn that social media has come to play a significant role. WH
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I have had the same thoughts, Will. I think there is a strong correlation between the rise of “mass shootings” and the rise of social media. I don’t think the human psyche is made for all this instant messaging, instant gratification and uncensored abuse. I think it allows too much unaccountable behavior that leads people down the path of madness and evil.
Not to go too religious, but any body noticing the increased prominence of the Seven Deadly Sins?
 
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I have read two different reports on the internet and also saw Fox run a banner calling this guy's gun a "sniper rifle". Do you suppose of the optics, or to boost the stories? Remember Feinstein floated a bill that would classify all guns with a scope as sniper rifles. And could be regulated as such. I just find it odd this pops up again.
 
We are our own worst enemies by not insisting on stronger laws and treatment for mental health issues and funding to enforce those laws and better treatment. Even as a teenager 4 decades ago I never understood why those that cry the loudest against mental health management aren‘t called out as contributing to gun laws.

Polititions want us to focus attention on Bud Light - almost anything to take attention away from their inability to pull their heads out of each other’s rears. Political historians say these periods of extreme stupidity flow in cycles - I’ll be glad a decade or two from now when normal behavior returns.
 
outasite`08 said:
I have read two different reports on the internet and also saw Fox run a banner calling this guy's gun a "sniper rifle". Do you suppose of the optics, or to boost the stories? Remember Feinstein floated a bill that would classify all guns with a scope as sniper rifles. And could be regulated as such. I just find it odd this pops up again.
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Fox News is just a step behind CNN on their radical views to destroy this country.
 
TaperPin said:
Political historians say these periods of extreme stupidity flow in cycles - I’ll be glad a decade or two from now when normal behavior returns.
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Sadly, this cycle is going on its fifth decade with no end in sight!
 
Camper said:
To your question, I think the standard that has been in place for a long long time, should be the deciding criteria. What is sad is that it's nothing new. If they are a danger to themselves or others and have communicated their threats or exhibited behavior such as hallucinations, hearing voices, that would be a good place to start.

Additionally, not to demean the victims, but I have no idea what country some people are living in where they think nothing is going to happen. No one was armed? Sorry, that is unacceptable at this time in this country. I visit ME and it is not a strict gun control state. I used to get their non resident permit for the summers I would spend there when they didn't have reciprocity with my state. But I don't go anywhere and feel like I'm 100% safe. Not too long ago I heard someone say they would rather die than have to shoot someone. Well, that's great for you, but how about your kid/kids? I have no idea what illusion people are living under. The day of Unthinkable Atrocities is over. Everything is thinkable at this point. Drone attacks are probably coming... but it will be unthinkable to some politician who will of course call for more gun control.

Democrats aren't even serious about stopping gun violence so it is a waste of time to even listen to them. The party that thinks it would be easier to disarm hundreds of millions of people, rather than lock up criminals and actually take credible threats from people seriously... it is just ridiculously unserious... they know it. They just want to keep their constituents stupid and keep them revved up with hysteria for many nefarious reasons: distraction, fund raising, voting if there is an election coming up and so on.

People need to realize that nowhere is safe. I don't bowl often, but when I did, I didn't disarm myself... and I am terrible too. I know people don't want to live in fear, but it doesn't take living in fear to be prepared. Why make it easy for evil people?
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I just read that the Army and Police paid him a visit and deemed him fine even though they knew he was having problems and On top of that was banned from owning firearms till a doctor released him.
 
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