A few questions...

[jjp016]

Good morning, everyone. I have a few questions pertaining to reloading for my WOA Varmint 223. I think I know the answer to the first two, but can't find the answer to the last one for the life of me. Any help is much appreciated.

1) I have some once fired brass from Mil-Spec (or close to it) AR-15s. Using my Wilson headspace gauge, I measure these at about .020" over spec. When measuring brass that has been shot out of my WOA rifle, I get about .011" over spec. Is there anything wrong with FL sizing this brass down to about .008" over and using it in my WOA? (P.S. I also use a concentricity gauge to weed out the bad brass).

2) If I am culling brass for concentricity, turning necks, and reaming primer pockets anyway, is there any point in using Lapua brass over Hornady or any other manufacturer?

3) What is the "A" headstamp? The brass has "A" on the top and "223" on the bottom.

Thanks in advance.

 

[fguffey]

1) I have some once fired brass from Mil-Spec (or close to it) AR-15s. Using my Wilson headspace gauge, I measure these at about .020" over spec. When measuring brass that has been shot out of my WOA rifle, I get about .011" over spec. Is there anything wrong with FL sizing this brass down to about .008" over and using it in my WOA? (P.S. I also use a concentricity gauge to weed out the bad brass).

You went straight to using your Wilson Head space gage, I have Wilson case gages, my Wilson case gages measure case length from the datum. Meaning? the case can protrude from the gage from both ends of the gage. If you are talking about case head protrusion we are talking about the length of the case from the datum to the case head (the case does not have head space).

And then? I do not know what .020" means, it could be .020" above the gage, I suggest you measure the length of your cases from the datum to the case head before firing and again after firing. Instead of every gage being a head space gage I suggest using a comparator when comparing before and again after firing; same thing when sizing, measure the length of the case from the datum to the case head before sizing and again after sizing. I am the fan of the comparator, many reloaders purchased Digital head space gages not knowing they were purchasing a comparator.

In the perfect world a minimum length/full length sized case would be even with the bottom deck of the Wilson case gage and a go-gage length case would be even with the top of the gage. So? I so not know if you need to add the difference to your case head protrusion; but if you were using the Wilson case gage as a comparator you would know what effect the chamber had on the case when fired. When using gages a reloader should learn to zero them, and then? There are comparators.

F. Guffey

 

[hogpatrol]

What is the mission and how far are you shooting. What' the twist? Need this info for a definitive answer to your questions.

Generally speaking though,

Question number 1. Don't use brass shot in another AR even it if it's another WOA varmint. Do a search on "AR stuck case".

Question number 2. My two cents on turning necks, doing primer pockets and checking concentricity for an AR WOA is a waste of time, on using Lapua or other expensive brass in an AR, waste of money.

 

[msinc]

Wow....020" sounds like a lot of headspace. Not really familiar with the Wilson gauges, but even your fired cases measuring .011" seems high. I mean generally speaking, even the worst excuse for a gunsmith can hit headspace better than that. I would seriously double check the actual headspace of the rifle and make certain that it is in spec.
I too have a WOA barrel on my AR. It's their 26" one and I like it, it shoots great. I think it was called their "Varmint" back when I got it. Wilson actually makes these and they are great barrels. Mine is a 1-in-9" twist and I found that it shoots 26.0 grains of W748 behind a 69 grain SMK into real small groups.
As to the Lapua brass...I am with hogpatrol on this one. I have bought it, it is pretty and there are guys out there that believe the sun rises and sets because it exists....but it don't do anything for me besides use up money that I could have spent on more bullets or powder. Some people really get upset if the least derogatory word gets typed regarding Lapua brass...theirs to get over, or not. These are usually the kind of guys that constantly have to have fairy dust blown up their skirt.
Cant speak to the "A" on your brass...never seen it, new one on me. Best thing I can say is try it, it will probably work as well as any other.

 

[hogpatrol]

Headstamp codes here: http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes?page=headstampcodes#A

 

[Bart B.]

1) I have some once fired brass from Mil-Spec (or close to it) AR-15s. Using my Wilson headspace gauge, I measure these at about .020" over spec. When measuring brass that has been shot out of my WOA rifle, I get about .011" over spec. Is there anything wrong with FL sizing this brass down to about .008" over and using it in my WOA? (P.S. I also use a concentricity gauge to weed out the bad brass).

Those numbers are very close to showing the chamber headspace is that much greater than maximum spec. A possible dangerous situation. I'd have it measured by a competent person; if over maximum, a different bolt may fix it.

I would full length size those fired setting their shoulders back about .003". That's .008" over the spec you mention. Any more will soon lead to case head cracking and separation about 1/10th inch in front of the extractor groove.

 

[Rsadams]

If your going to use range brass a set of small base dies would be nice but alot of people get away with regular F/L dies.. I use the small base shoveing the shoulder back .003 to make sure it chambers.. Be careful of to much headspace as mentioned so you don't get case head separation... This can be checked with a tool such as a bent paper clip..

 

[fguffey]

Be careful of to much headspace as mentioned so you don't get case head separation... This can be checked with a tool such as a bent paper clip..

Because reloaders throw the term 'head space' around like it is everywhere and everything has head space and all tools are head space tools I have to ask: What do you mean when you say "be careful of too much head space"? If there is too much head space I would think it would be in the chamber between the shoulder and bolt face, that would mean there is too much clearance; I off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face with the length of the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head.

If your going to use range brass a set of small base dies would be nice

I would think being able to measure the length of range brass from the shoulder to the case head would be nice, that added with the ability to determine the length of a chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face would be even nicer. I have small base dies, I do not use them but I have them JIC.

F. Guffey

 

[danny]

What is the mission and how far are you shooting. What' the twist? Need this info for a definitive answer to your questions.

Generally speaking though,

Question number 1. Don't use brass shot in another AR even it if it's another WOA varmint. Do a search on "AR stuck case".

Question number 2. My two cents on turning necks, doing primer pockets and checking concentricity for an AR WOA is a waste of time, on using Lapua or other expensive brass in an AR, waste of money.

What do you do when priming for an AR if you don't ream the crimp if the brass has a crimp, and if you don't uniform the primer pockets? Do you just force the primers past the crimp and then force the primers below flush if they resist going in that far?

Danny

 

[johnfred1965]

What do you do when priming for an AR if you don't ream the crimp if the brass has a crimp, and if you don't uniform the primer pockets? Do you just force the primers past the crimp and then force the primers below flush if they resist going in that far?

Danny

The simplest solution I have found for the primer crimp is a tool you should already have on your reloading bench, a 45 degree chamfer tool. A few turns in the primer pocket bevels the edge and knocks the crimp off the lip of the pocket, allowing smooth priming.

 

[johnfred1965]

Question one: If you have a WOA upper, it is most likely close to a minimum spec chamber, unless a serious mistake has been made. With that in mind, I would invest in a small base sizing die to insure proper functioning. I had a minimum chamber on mine, and brass loaded with a normal FL die would not even chamber. If you have the dies already, size some brass and test them in your chamber. If they fit, load up about 10 for testing. Measure these rounds base to shoulder(I use an old 9mm case inverted onto the shoulder to compare cases) Fire the rounds and measure the rounds again. The difference between the loaded and fired brass will indicate how much room your chamber has. It will show you how much you need to resize. 3 or 4 thou for an autoloader is good.

Question two:If you have a bolt gun you will see the advantages of lapua brass. It is a bit expensive though for the beating it will take through an autoloader. Resize the brass you have, then weight sort it. This will give you consistent internal capacities for your brass. 223 is a small powder load, and 223 brass varies a lot between manufacturers. As far as turning necks, I aoso think that is best left to the bolt guns. You will still realize excellent accuracy. If you are bent on turning, measure to find your thinnest necks and turn to clean up about 2/3 around, then turn the thicker ones down to that for consistency.

I have no idea about the headstamp, I hope the others posts helped with that.

 

[hogpatrol]

What do you do when priming for an AR if you don't ream the crimp if the brass has a crimp, and if you don't uniform the primer pockets? Do you just force the primers past the crimp and then force the primers below flush if they resist going in that far?

Danny

I use the Dillon tool for removing the crimp. I do not "ream" the pockets. Uniforming primer pockets in used military grade brass for an AR, is in my opinion, a waste of time. As long as the crimp is removed, the primer SHOULD seat properly without any additional work.

 

[Rsadams]

If your going to be removing crimps alot you should look into a case prep center or dillon swager... Totally worth it...

 

[fguffey]

Question one: If you have a WOA upper, it is most likely close to a minimum spec chamber, unless a serious mistake has been made. With that in mind, I would invest in a small base sizing die to insure proper functioning.

I sizes cases for long chambers, I size cases for short chambers, when I sit down at the press the first thing I do is relax. I do not get into mortal combat with;

unless a serious mistake has been made.

I size cases for chambers that are .015" shorter than a go-gage length chamber, I size cases that are .016" longer that a minimum length/full length sized case as long as the length of the case is understood to be measured from the datum to the case head; and then there3 is all of the length between. One more time, my cases do not have head space, I off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder if the chamber to the bolt face with the length of the case, again if we are talking about the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the case head. with nothing more than a feeler gage.

F. Guffey

 

[duanehunter1]

The "A" headstamp is General Dynamics brass. I am currently using it. Midway had a good deal on it so I bought 1000. It is good brass, no problems with it at all.