I have shot the 6.5 Creed, but only shortly. I agree with Stomp442, I don't see the need of replication. Have had 2 XC's and love them; on my 3rd now. Easy to tune, shoots lights out at 3030 -3060. I built one for my wife and she smiles all day. My rifles seem to like the 107 MK and the 105 Scenar best.
6XC OR 6 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Frankr
- Start date
Did the same thing with the 6 Creed, my wife shoots #2, I shoot #3.
So, reading all the opinions back and forth, and assuming that you're starting fresh without brass and tooling. The Creedmoor would seem a better choice - not necessarily because it's better (other than a slight capacity advantage) but because of component availability which will almost certainly continue to be an increasing advantage.
As to the 6.5 vs 6 I really struggle with going to a 6.5. The 6 just plain beats its ballistics out to any sane ranges. There are certainly specific rifles and shooters that will be exceptions but speed makes a huge difference. Case capacity of these rounds seems near ideal for 6mm. If I want/need more seems better to step to a bigger case and a 7. If the 6.5 truly is all that please prove me wrong before I buy the next new barrel. I really don't understand the almost cult following of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good round but to hear many speak it can do no wrong. Shoots wings off flies at 1000yds and will easily dispatch a trophy elk at the same distance.
Also, I'd really love to understand how or why an equal BC slower heavier bullet outperforms the faster lighter equal BC bullet. As long as density, mass/area relationship, is the same wind should affect them the same. The faster bullet has less time for air to affect it. Air molecule size in relationship to bullet size?
Also, I'd really love to understand how or why an equal BC slower heavier bullet outperforms the faster lighter equal BC bullet. As long as density, mass/area relationship, is the same wind should affect them the same. The faster bullet has less time for air to affect it. Air molecule size in relationship to bullet size?
urbanrifleman
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A 243 will shoot 105s all the way up to almost 3400 with N160, and you can shoot the lower nodes to the same or even better accuracy. I am really kind of stunned no one shoots it. Works for Dan Whidden, and considering how people love to copy so and so whoever won this or that, people not copying Whidden is really kind of perplexing. Maybe it the cost of VV 160N powder... No one uses it. It is one of the neatest powders i have ever tried in my life. It runs cooler than H1000, is so clean it barely leave anything in the bore and is just stupid accurate from the bottom node to the top.
The 243 is certainly a timeless cartridge and no slouch. I've not seen it loaded that high with 105s, at least not magazine length. And, how is case life? Are you seating those way out to get that? I was headed that way (243) with this rifle when cartridge length and effecency had me looking at the 6 Creedmoor. Unless seated way past magazine length those type of speeds with a 105 don't seem remotely possible, even with N160 or Superformance or whatever wonderful new powder.
urbanrifleman
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Using a standard SAMMI reamer gets you a standard FB of about 85 thou. Well short of mag length. You could go way longer.
I shoot 108 to the lands in my AR10 and that is not even close to magazine length. I am not sure what mag you are using.
It is not a new powder. It is an old powder. Dan Whidden has been shooting that load for longer than 10 years. And yes, it is possible (I said, 3400 but I should have said 3300). Like I said, you don't need to shoot the the upper nodes. You can easily shoot the lower nodes, from my testing it shoots bugholes in the lower nodes. Dan is shooting this:
“I use Lapua brass, PMC primers (Russian, similar to Wolf), Vihtavuori N160 single-base powder, and Berger 105-grain Hybrid bullets. I switched to the Hybrid bullets at the beginning of 2015. Previously I shot the 105-grain Berger hunting VLDs. During testing, I found that the Hybrids were just as accurate without having to seat the bullet into the lands. The velocity of this combination when shot through the excellent Bartlein 5R barrels (32-inch) is around 3275 fps.”
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urbanrifleman
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John Whidden not Dan Whidden
Man, I am batting zero percent.
Max SAAMI COAL for a 243 is 2.710". Most "standard boxes" mine included on this particular rifle are 2.80". I think Winchester model 70 and some others are longer. Wyatts does a lot of longer versions for popular bolt action stuff.
Those specs are getting down to a more realistic level. 32" barrel vs 22" is ~250 less so that alone puts it at 3025 (or 3075 in a standard test 24"). I'll be using a Bartlein 5R as well. Moly coated bullets probably gives a little (Whidden states he is using them with this setup). And I really doubt those are seated shorter than 2.800", I certainly could be wrong but I would go longer shooting his setup so that long bullet isn't killing valuable powder capacity especially needing a bit more to make up for the moly. Impressive shooting and I see his reasoning on the cartridge choice. Can't argue with the results, impressive!
I've spoken with Berger on this project and they were not optimistic it could be done using the 105 hybrid or VLR with the 6 Creedmoor let alone a longer case 243 brass. And, if you can accommodate the longer COAL why not use a 6 SLR assuming everthing is handloaded anyway.
Good info but getting way off the original poster's topic, sorry. For that, I'll refer back to post #23.
Those specs are getting down to a more realistic level. 32" barrel vs 22" is ~250 less so that alone puts it at 3025 (or 3075 in a standard test 24"). I'll be using a Bartlein 5R as well. Moly coated bullets probably gives a little (Whidden states he is using them with this setup). And I really doubt those are seated shorter than 2.800", I certainly could be wrong but I would go longer shooting his setup so that long bullet isn't killing valuable powder capacity especially needing a bit more to make up for the moly. Impressive shooting and I see his reasoning on the cartridge choice. Can't argue with the results, impressive!
I've spoken with Berger on this project and they were not optimistic it could be done using the 105 hybrid or VLR with the 6 Creedmoor let alone a longer case 243 brass. And, if you can accommodate the longer COAL why not use a 6 SLR assuming everthing is handloaded anyway.
Good info but getting way off the original poster's topic, sorry. For that, I'll refer back to post #23.
Everybody and their Mother-in-law, is now making, 6 Creed Brass ( Alpha, Starline, Peterson ) with lge and small Pr pockets and Loading Data "abound's", for it ! My thought was, trying to shoot, the "Colder",.. Temp insensitive Powders like, N160 RL-16 or, H100V in the 6 Creed because, the Creed has a .040 longer case "body", to hold MORE Powder. Thus longer barrel life with, those Powders ! Thought's,.. anyone
Yesterday, I was SOLD on the 6XCII ,.. NOW,.. ???
Not trying to start any argument's here, just wanting, to learn, get idea's and pick the best caliber,.. for me ! I am not shooting, Bench rest, PRS or F class,.. just for fun and Varmints, 80-95 grain bullets for, lower recoil and hopefully long,.. Barrel "Life" !
Not trying to start any argument's here, just wanting, to learn, get idea's and pick the best caliber,.. for me ! I am not shooting, Bench rest, PRS or F class,.. just for fun and Varmints, 80-95 grain bullets for, lower recoil and hopefully long,.. Barrel "Life" !
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WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
What are you expecting in the way of barrel life? Wd
Since I never shoot with, a "Hot" barrel ( 3 shots, then WAIT) and I'll be using the 6 Creed with, a "Cooler" powder than, H4350/ RL-17 and by not shooting, Max loads, if possible, I would think that, 2,500 or more rounds, would be doable. Mr. jaygorski thinks that, possibly 3,000 rd's is doable. Since Mr. jaygorski and his Wife have several, very accurate, 6 Creed's, I'd say he knows quite a bit about, the Caliber. The 6 Creed's dimensions are almost exactly, the same as the 6XC except, the .039 longer case "body" which allows, a bit more of the "Cold/ Slow" burning powders, to be used. The Shooting Industry has given the "Blessing" to the 6 Creed thru, 4 different brands of Brass Companies making Brass and several pages of new loading Data from, VV, Hogdon and Sierra !. As much as i like, the 6XC, I'll probably, "go with the flow" on the 6 Creed, when building my new Rifle. Barrel "Life" is never, a "sure thing" tho as, lots of Factors, at play !
I am just, "shooting MY best shot" at good barrel life with, the 6 Creed as it now seems, to make good sense with, what "WE" know now about, the newer "Cold", Powders available. Several Shooters, have had good luck ( great Velocity and accuracy) with, VV N-160 and RL-16 so far. I haven't read much yet, on H-100V with, the Creed but I'm sure somebody's, trying it. I am trying, to keep an open mind about, these two calibers, still ! Don't want the 6x47L due to, small primers!
I am just, "shooting MY best shot" at good barrel life with, the 6 Creed as it now seems, to make good sense with, what "WE" know now about, the newer "Cold", Powders available. Several Shooters, have had good luck ( great Velocity and accuracy) with, VV N-160 and RL-16 so far. I haven't read much yet, on H-100V with, the Creed but I'm sure somebody's, trying it. I am trying, to keep an open mind about, these two calibers, still ! Don't want the 6x47L due to, small primers!
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A lot of shooters like the 6 creedmoor for it's laser-like muzzle velocity, however, many don't realize (at least I never hear anyone talking about it) that it can be downloaded into the 2700 ft/sec range:
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/10/03/sierra-bullets-6mm6-5-creedmoor-load-data/
It's such a versatile cartridge and with the popularity of 6.5 creedmoor, high quality brass can easily be formed. Hopefully someone will start breaking records with it, since this is the only argument anyone can come up with that's against it.
I experienced the same thing shooting my 6XC against my 260 shooting the 123s. With my loads both guns used the same data to 1000yds. or within a half moa as I recall. My XC had the edge on accuracy until the wind came up then the 260 would most always outshoot the XC past 600yds. I don't know why it just did. I also think the heavier bullets will fly better in the wind.....
What 6mm bullet has the same BC as a 140 hybrid that goes 3100 fps in a 6mm creedmoor?
Sierra 110
Dtac has the same bc too, I run Lapua brass, 205M, 41.1gr of RL 16, 110 Sierra, average 3110fps, I've had it up to 3155 with no pressures signs.
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