6MM PRS PROJECTILE CHOICES?

[ELR LVR]

The automated line is less than a Berger and bc doesn’t matter if a bullet doesn’t shoot well for your rifle….
Some very successful PRS fellas shoot bullets with a lesser bc

Not arguing those facts
and yes if a guys twist rate is not up to handling 115's then I def agree with you there.
I would take consistency over BC myself although..... not if it is only marginal
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IE: Lapua 105's have better consistency in OAl, Base to Ogive etc
But, past 600, the DTACS really take over.
Just wondering if your experience or recommendtion is more catered to 600 and under or if they are worth ditching Dtacs even when shooting 1000.
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IF we're going to ditch BC for more consitency then we should also Consider WTC -Flatline Solid bullets and compare them to the Vapor trails and run a side by side
If we are stepping it up to that level

 

[nmjwolf]

I’ve shot em past 1000 at least a time or two.

 

[Ranger188]

The DTAC's got a bad rap soon after they came out. Not very consistent.
I think they've fixed that problem.
A high B.C. bullet doesn't mean a good shooting bullet.
Look at what wins at bench rest competitions, mostly custom hand pulled bullets
with a lower BC and weight. (this is at 600 and 1000yds.)
Try a couple of different bullets and see what shoots best in your setup.
I know it burns some barrel life, better to have a great shooting bullet than
a just a so so one.

 

[ELR LVR]

The DTAC's got a bad rap soon after they came out. Not very consistent.
I think they've fixed that problem.
A high B.C. bullet doesn't mean a good shooting bullet.
Look at what wins at bench rest competitions, mostly custom hand pulled bullets
with a lower BC and weight. (this is at 600 and 1000yds.)
Try a couple of different bullets and see what shoots best in your setup.
I know it burns some barrel life, better to have a great shooting bullet than
a just a so so one.

Well definitely, but the DTACS are a good shooting bullet.
And there is documentation of guys winning 1000 yd matches with them,
One guy who Even beat Dave Tubb in a straight .243
So I am not understanding the assertion to try lower BC bullets
Like one guy mentioned there was a time when Tubb was experimenting and trying different weights up to 117's etc etc so they may have just been cutting their teeth arriving at a conrete design for the bullets
I remember the first lot I used did not even have a rebated boat tail yet
The next year he started doing that and BC went up even further just from that design change alone.
And it was a good change
I have been using that same design ever since with great results
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No biggee my friend I mean we all like to ....and have to try various combos
forget what i said other than the DTACS HAVE, proven themselves to have won many matches

 

[Ranger188]

If they shoot in well in your setup then go for it.
Just saying don't get caught up in the highest BC bullet is always
the best bullet.
The manufacturers got into the high BC race a few years back to SELL bullets.
A lot of shooters tried them and then went back to a slightly lower BC that shot smaller.
Theirs a difference between a good shooting bullet and a great shooting bullet.
My 2 cent. Thats all it is.

 

[maximusdecimusmeridius]

what do you guys think the most consistent bullet is as far as bc consistency and dimensional consistency?

the berger 109 lrht's seem to be the most popular as far as prs usage but i'm willing to try the 115 dtac's and 110 smk's first because the bc is better

 

[ELR LVR]

what do you guys think the most consistent bullet is as far as bc consistency and dimensional consistency?

the berger 109 lrht's seem to be the most popular as far as prs usage but i'm willing to try the 115 dtac's and 110 smk's first because the bc is better

The WTC - Flatline will be the most consistent everything.
and good price for a Lathe Turned Solid.
I have tried their 180 gr .308 bullets but not their 6mm yet
I will be trying them later this season though
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What Ranger said here
"Just saying don't get caught up in the highest BC bullet is always
the best bullet."
ok now I get what he's saying, and yes agree,
----------just because BC is the highest dont mean anything
But in my testing it has pretty much been apples to apples they all really shoot very well if you stay within their jacket design limits
Lapua 105's impressed me most out to 600
even though it has a lower BC.
I only tested one box of Berger 109's and they shot great
I keep wanting to test them again but as long as I have DTACS I have no need to run another bullet
In the discipline I use which is all pretty much past 1000 yds ELR
The DTACS are king
I can pretty much stack them one on top of another (stay within 0.1 Mils dispersion at 1200 yds)
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It really depends on what you will be doing
If it's Competition 600 yd, I would test the Lapua 105 Scenar - L ....against all others for repeated grouping consistency.
If you have wind, then you must test 109's 110's and 115's
( I have not tested SMK 110's only because the Dtacs ARE MADE BY SIERRA! so you ARE buying a 110 SMK,
just in a 115 grn version labeled by Tubb)

 

[ELR LVR]

I think I see a common theme with some people not being able to realize the full potential of the 115 Dtacs.
It is similar to someone wanting to use the Berger 7mm 195 EOL in a 7/08
Whereas-------
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When bumping to a heavier bullet simply to seek B.C. there is a point of diminished returns once the bullet becomes heavy enough it is too slow to realize the benefit of the added B.C.
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And using a lighter yet faster lower BC bullet will actually yield LESS wind drift simply by virtue of the added velocity that better suits a particular cartridge.
Same as trying to use a Berger 230 gr in a .308
when a 175 TMK will give better trajectories across the board including better wind drift.
---- because that case cannot drive the bullet fast enough to benefit from... Nor Use the Heavier Higher BC Bullets full potential. Which is more designed for a case like a 300WM.
And by virtue of going too slow, adds MORE drop and wind drift from actually using a Higher BC bullet just because it is too heavy for the case to drive it.
So guys will think the heavier higher BC bullet is a polished turd when actually they are benefiting from Velocity when stepping down to a lighter bullet.
If we stay behind the point of diminished returns line and do not cross it....
....Velocity cheats the wind, simply due to physics because the bullet spends less time in the air for the wind to affect it. (TOF, is another calculation that should be factoed into what we are trying to accomplish within our particular discipline.
IE: a 220 Swift Ackley Improved with an 85 gr bullet will beat a 6 Dasher using a 107 simply due to less Time Of Flight spent in the air)

The 6 BR's and 6 Dashers etc may be in this particular category where going to a 115 is just too slow to realize the added benefit of the higher BC. Where the 243's and 6x284's can dominate with them.
and the borderline case capacity of the 6 BR's may better be suited to 105's up to 110's
5 grains is actually a noticeable amount of added mass to push from a small cartridge
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Something that should be considered

 

[DHuffman]

The automated line is less than a Berger and bc doesn’t matter if a bullet doesn’t shoot well for your rifle….
Some very successful PRS fellas shoot bullets with a lesser bc…
In any event it is a bullet option that has worked well in my PRs rifles

My son and I have shot buckets full of the automated Vapor Trail VTacs in PRS.
They're not holding anybody back whose willing to give them an honest chance.

 

[ELR LVR]

My son and I have shot buckets full of the automated Vapor Trail VTacs in PRS.
They're not holding anybody back whose willing to give them an honest chance.

Oh fudge, Those are much more cost effective than the $650 + I seen for the others.
I did not know they had a second cheaper option
Not bad then at all. (Just wish they had some higher BC choices for 1K)
(I Miss the older choices we used to have such a 108 Eubers, and the 110 JLK's)
I mean .500 BC is ..........meh okay, its all we had back when the Sierra 107 was pretty much the only choice back in the early 90's but....
I like how things have progressed for the newer 6mm BC's
All I'm sayin is, can't they just step it up a little tiny bit? maybe? Someday a 104 even?
I mean here's the thing, nowadays even an 85.5 Berger 22 has 0.524 BC (and those shoot lights out at 600)
that combo in a Swift is...............better than shooting a 22PPC or BR at 100
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To each their own, I dont knock any persons individual taste in their choice of cartridge
I like accuracy, but I prefer Speed and Accuracy even more if I can get both

 

[Ranger188]

@ELR LVR
I know you mentioned the all copper bullet (Flatline)
Have you shot them much at distance?
I know they had a reputation for having vertical and you have to
run a pretty fast twist to stabilize them.
Have you found this true or are they ok in certain applications?
Plus they are pricey.

Back to the OP's question, had a 6 Creedmoor that loved the SMK 110g
Second barrel liked the 107's
I'm sure you know a lot of PRS shooters use the Berger 105 hybrid

 

[ELR LVR]

@ELR LVR
I know you mentioned the all copper bullet (Flatline)
Have you shot them much at distance?
I know they had a reputation for having vertical and you have to
run a pretty fast twist to stabilize them.
Have you found this true or are they ok in certain applications?
Plus they are pricey.

Back to the OP's question, had a 6 Creedmoor that loved the SMK 110g
Second barrel liked the 107's
I'm sure you know a lot of PRS shooters use the Berger 105 hybrid

Here's a vid of some load workup I did on it
You can jump to the 20:00 minute mark to save a lot of time
since the first 20 mins is comparing measurements of ogives etc and just zeroing in the scope at 100 real quick until I got 2 shots touching before progressing out to do some real testing of loads, different primers etc.

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I verify a trajectory and DOPE chart by shooting at 3 dif distances
as shown in this vid of the load workup I did for that bullet
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Twist is not near as tight as needed for other Solids
The 180 gr only needed a 10 twist and has a BC of 0.712
I was more impressed with the achieved velocity of 2820 in a .308 Win
This velocity coincided within 30 fps of other people using the same CFE-223 load
Once I got dialed in and arrived at a good load, every shot was within 0.1 Mils of POA at 700 and 875 yds
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They were 80 bucks per 50 at the time of that video and testing, as with all things they've went up
but In my opinion they're a Specialty bullet,
The one thing I DID NOT like, is being a very sharp copper solid, they almost drill right into rock so they are hard to spot at long distances, being they don't come apart or expand
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What many people are Failing to understand with BC is this....
..... you have more RETAINED ENERGY downrange, or a velocity loss of only 4.5% per every 100 yds.
(Compared to 10% per every 100 yds)
Some of us are NOT COMPETITION shooters, we shoot for real, for what a gun was intended for.
We have mouths to feed, We have no use for trophys,
we cannot eat a trophy nor feed our family with a trophy.
our loads are for a different purpose and with More BC means More retained velocity which equates to
More Retained kinetic energy downrange.
We strive for a target KE of 1000 ft/lbs at 1000 yds or close to that.
1380 Ft/lbs at 875 is dang good for a 308 Win

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Was the original question before the thread turned into a DTAC Blog not about best 6mm bullet for PRS competitions ?

 

[urbanrifleman]

$$$$$$$
Is their lower BC of .507 compared to .620
and nearly DOUBLE the price of DTACS
worth their supposed better consistency?
It is also discouraging their lowest quantity offering is you must buy 1000 for $650
When you can get 500 Dtacs for $190 and at least experiment before committing to a large purchase.
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Not being a smart alleck, because I have read a few guys rave of them but mostly out to 600 which would make more sense
Many of us using the High BC 6mm's are just warming up at 1000 before progressing out to go to work

Do yourself a favor and try some Barnes 112 at 20 jump.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

“What the Pros Use” feature on bullets on the Precision Rifle Blog:

Best Long Range Bullet – What The Pros Use

When it comes to long-range shooting, the bullet is arguably the most critical component to hit pro...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[marchx]

@maximusdecimusmeridius

Glandes Bergeri optimae sunt.
ave atque vale.

 

[ELR LVR]

Do yourself a favor and try some Barnes 112 at 20 jump.

I second this
Barnes 112 Matchburners are an overlooked nice made bullet (Better than Berger)
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I took the time last night to measure every 6mm bullet I have 95 grains and up to 115
Barnes
JLK - 105
Berger 95, 109, 115
DTAC 115
Hornady 105 Amax
Lapua 105-L
Sierra 107
Lapua 105-L
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OAL and Base to Ogive with a comparator
You will be surprised with the results
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I will post them later this evening
Hint (current production) Bergers faired the worst of all of them
Matchburners and 115 DTACS were Top in consistency aside from 105 JLK's

 

[ELR LVR]

Do yourself a favor and try some Barnes 112 at 20 jump.

I dont change seating depth once I find the magic depth.
In over 30 yrs of using 6x284 for Mile plus shooting starting back in the early 90's when 600 yds was unbelievable to most people
my experience is ....They most always liked jam
The lead angle in the reamer also facilitates to lend itself to jam rather well by matching the ogive at the contact point of the rifling. The bullets "EASES" into the rifling.
jam allows more powder also
I could try jump but, I doubt it would shoot any better than it does now.
....may shoot the same I'll give it that
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It fully meets my expectations for what the rifles intended use is
To be able to set up, at any time, any day, at any hour, at any temp and POA = POI
To put the bullets into the same spot at any given time.
Good enough for minute of squirrel at 1000 yds, or rabbit at 1500
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looking at the price of the Win 284 brass on the box, may also provide an idea of how long I've been doing, experimenting and using 6x284's
They are not a 6 ppc capable agging type cartridge, due to recoil, but they come darn close if all is done right.

 

[ELR LVR]

Was the original question before the thread turned into a DTAC Blog not about best 6mm bullet for PRS competitions ?

Is comparing relevent 6mm bullets ...in a question regarding BEST 6mm bullets ...not relevent?

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

part of the switch was also because cartridges like the 6x284 are considered too much of a barrel burner.
With Reports of being burned out in 1000 rounds etc.
And that idea has not been corrected, (Good for me, bad for them)
The new coatings on the bullets helps tremendously with throat erosion.
I will measure my throat erosion this week compared to a new chamber and report back here
since I have not done so for awhile. I know I'm past 1000 rounds
My last 6x284 went 1900 rounds and still shot well but velocity had fallen off
My velocity has not fallen off yet and is holding at 3400 fps
But for my first 200 rounds of load development, I kept measuring, and it was not chaning so I stopped measuring.
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Conslusion, A 6x284 does not HAVE to be.....a barrel burner if treated right
(But Shhhhh.... don't tell the other guys, let them all keep shooting under 3000 fps)
I havent tried the Tungsten Disulphide yet to get a comparison but can attest the Boron Nitride works and works very well for my hot rod.)

If they shoot in well in your setup then go for it.
Just saying don't get caught up in the highest BC bullet is always
the best bullet.
The manufacturers got into the high BC race a few years back to SELL bullets.
A lot of shooters tried them and then went back to a slightly lower BC that shot smaller.
Theirs a difference between a good shooting bullet and a great shooting bullet.
My 2 cent. Thats all it is.

great synopsis 188