6mm BR vs 6mm PPC for 100-300 yd

[Dusty Stevens]

Youd figure a long range bullet would help if you missed a condition. Just shows you cant miss a condition period and short range isnt the cakewalk everybody thinks it is. Maybe this year one of the heavier guns with the better bc bullets will win. Theoretically a ppc shouldnt come close to winning a 330yd match against a long range rifle weighing 7-8lbs more.

 

[Ccrider]

I am sure your correct. I would be interested in knowing what records in what disciplines.

There are several that I have read about on this site. This is the most recent: https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/a-record-day-at-piedmont.4018881/

 

[JEFFPPC]

Ccrider, nice find. Sam is the man, no doubt. Besides the no turn neck I was interested to see he shoots a square mark on his bullets which is where I have shot most of my barrels over the years, like 90 percent of them. In spite of Sam, not a normal shooter for sure, I am still a beliver in turning necks. Thanks for finding that article I enjoyed it.

 

[Ccrider]

Ccrider, nice find. Sam is the man, no doubt. Besides the no turn neck I was interested to see he shoots a square mark on his bullets which is where I have shot most of my barrels over the years, like 90 percent of them. In spite of Sam, not a normal shooter for sure, I am still a beliver in turning necks. Thanks for finding that article I enjoyed it.

I actually agree with you. Sam (and several others on here) is an extraordinary shooter and I am sure he has an extraordinary process for shooting no turn necks. Fir us mere mortals, we are probably better off to at least clean our necks up. Just one less variable to worry about, assuming our turning process is consistent and repeatable.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Ccrider, nice find. Sam is the man, no doubt. Besides the no turn neck I was interested to see he shoots a square mark on his bullets which is where I have shot most of my barrels over the years, like 90 percent of them. In spite of Sam, not a normal shooter for sure, I am still a beliver in turning necks. Thanks for finding that article I enjoyed it.

There is another Tack Driver next year. Everybody now knows the rules and the layout.
We know a Rifle designed for and in a chambering geared toward Short Range Benchrest can win it. As to whether a Rifle designed for and geared towards 600/1000 yard shooting can win in this particular Format is still up for debate.
I would venture that even if you stretched it to 400 yards, the advantage would still be with the Point Blank Benchrest Rifle, probably in 6PPC.

 

[JEFFPPC]

There is another Tack Driver next year. Everybody now knows the rules and the layout.
We know a Rifle designed for and in a chambering geared toward Short Range Benchrest can win it. As to whether a Rifle designed for and geared towards 600/1000 yard shooting can win in this particular Format is still up for debate.
I would venture that even if you stretched it to 400 yards, the advantage would still be with the Point Blank Benchrest Rifle, probably in 6PPC.

I have done well the last 20 years shooting the ppc at 500 yd groundhogs shoots against whatever the popular caliber of the year is. However, going back to the
OP, I do not think he is at a dissadvantage with a br. And a totally agree with you, the Tackdriver is a short range match that invited long range guys to participate in. You know, more money in the pot and they probably won't win. I get it, smart idea.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have done well the last 20 years shooting the ppc at 500 yd groundhogs shoots against whatever the popular caliber of the year is. However, going back to the
OP, I do not think he is at a dissadvantage with a br. And a totally agree with you, the Tackdriver is a short range match that invited long range guys to participate in. You know, more money in the pot and they probably won't win. I get it, smart idea.

I really dont think that was the intent. I think it was that a gun that weighs almost twice as much, with double the bc bullets should be able to handle a short range gun pretty easily. You have the short range guns shooting 130yds farther than they were designed for and the long range guns are just getting started at 300m. Seems to me it was designed to take the short range guys monies if anything.

 

[sdean]

I really dont think that was the intent. I think it was that a gun that weighs almost twice as much, with double the bc bullets should be able to handle a short range gun pretty easily. You have the short range guns shooting 130yds farther than they were designed for and the long range guns are just getting started at 300m. Seems to me it was designed to take the short range guys monies if anything.

It seems that way. Sure didn't work out that way this year.

 

[rwj]

It seems that way. Sure didn't work out that way this year.

If the outcome could be accurately predicted, there would be no reason to hold the match!

 

[rayporter]

Seems to me it was designed to take the short range guys monies if anything.

if i remember right, in the years previous to the tackdriver, there had been a long string of groups posted of heavy guns in 6 br and 6br variants basically claiming that they could shoot the same size groups as a ppc. hence, a challenge to end the debate.

 

[foxguy]

Ccrider, nice find. Sam is the man, no doubt. Besides the no turn neck I was interested to see he shoots a square mark on his bullets which is where I have shot most of my barrels over the years, like 90 percent of them. In spite of Sam, not a normal shooter for sure, I am still a beliver in turning necks. Thanks for finding that article I enjoyed it.

Jeff
"He shoots a square mark on his bullets"?

I have seen this stated several times in regards to seating bullets and don't know what it means. would you please try to explain it to me.

Tia,

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I really dont think that was the intent. I think it was that a gun that weighs almost twice as much, with double the bc bullets should be able to handle a short range gun pretty easily. You have the short range guns shooting 130yds farther than they were designed for and the long range guns are just getting started at 300m. Seems to me it was designed to take the short range guys monies if anything.

I still believe conditions played a big role and that they nullify pure accuracy to a large degree but lend well to great wind reading and sighters. It's no different than the top shooters rising to the top in rough conditions at a normal match. FWIW, that's all I've been trying to say in regard to that match and a ppc vs a br. I will say that I thought there'd be a high bc rifle to do well in tough conditions at that match. No doubt, ya gotta trust your equipment to do what the sighter tells ya, though, so accuracy certainly matters a ton.

Ultimately, it sounds to me like the long range guys just failed to read the flags and use their sighters, as well as the short range guys. Having said that, I don't think it's fair to say that anything was "taken away" from anyone. They all had sighters and could use flags. Learning to use them does take some time to do well and we're all still learning at that.

I also believe flags and wind reading is THE biggest part of shooting well, be it long or short range, given good equipment. I hope that there are some people that use that match to their benefit, that maybe didn't put much thought into how important flags really are. I'd love to see some of the long range shooters make big strides in preparing for this match next year. I think some will do just that and it'll improve their shooting at every match.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Jeff
"He shoots a square mark on his bullets"?

I have seen this stated several times in regards to seating bullets and don't know what it means. would you please try to explain it to me.

Tia,

He's referring to "jam" that leaves rifling marks on the bullet that are basically as long as they are wide..square. I agree and I find that it's rare to find a gun like really likes big jump. In virtually every instance I can recall, my best loads have been between .010 in and .010 out of the lands...even with vld type bullets.

 

[Tim Singleton]

I remember listening to one of Jack Nearys videos where he was recalling being chastised by someone early in his shooting career. Just because you can start shooting at commence fire doesn’t mean you have too !
learning when not to shoot and when to stop shooting is a big step

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I remember listening to one of Jack Nearys videos where he was recalling being chastised by someone early in his shooting career. Just because you can start shooting at commence fire doesn’t mean you have too !
learning when not to shoot and when to stop shooting is a big step

That's a great tip! Ya shouldn't start in a lull unless you can finish in it..for example.

edit...I should add..if you start in a condition that won't come back, you have to pick a different condition that will hold and you then have to hold off, to a different place, that will land the rest of the rounds into the group. That's where sighters come in.

It's usually a big mistake to hold off without KNOWING where the shot will go. Again..sighters!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

It seems that way. Sure didn't work out that way this year.

Maybe it will this year

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I still believe conditions played a big role and that they nullify pure accuracy to a large degree but lend well to great wind reading and sighters. It's no different than the top shooters rising to the top in rough conditions at a normal match. FWIW, that's all I've been trying to say in regard to that match and a ppc vs a br. I will say that I thought there'd be a high bc rifle to do well in tough conditions at that match. No doubt, ya gotta trust your equipment to do what the sighter tells ya, though, so accuracy certainly matters a ton.

Ultimately, it sounds to me like the long range guys just failed to read the flags and use their sighters, as well as the short range guys. Having said that, I don't think it's fair to say that anything was "taken away" from anyone. They all had sighters and could use flags. Learning to use them does take some time to do well and we're all still learning at that.

I also believe flags and wind reading is THE biggest part of shooting well, be it long or short range, given good equipment. I hope that there are some people that use that match to their benefit, that maybe didn't put much thought into how important flags really are. I'd love to see some of the long range shooters make big strides in preparing for this match next year. I think some will do just that and it'll improve their shooting at every match.

I agree 110%

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I remember listening to one of Jack Nearys videos where he was recalling being chastised by someone early in his shooting career. Just because you can start shooting at commence fire doesn’t mean you have too !
learning when not to shoot and when to stop shooting is a big step

No telling how many times ive sat there for over 6 minutes watching the flags not twitch admiring my huge group

 

[HTSmith]

I sure have enjoyed this thread. I'm assuming all these folks could see their bullet holes at 300 M?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

No telling how many times ive sat there for over 6 minutes watching the flags not twitch admiring my huge group

Again.. time to shoot the sighter, and still get fooled at times