6mm BR vs 6mm PPC for 100-300 yd

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I sure have enjoyed this thread. I'm assuming all these folks could see their bullet holes at 300 M?

I've been there a few times. If I can, I'll shoot several on the sighter, trying to make a hole that I can see...then try to SHOOT! It's worked at times and not at others. A few years ago, had what looked like a good condition at 300 yards, but couldn't make bullets touch, and in poor lighting. Didn't work that time!

But yea, it's a big difference, being able to see your bullet holes..for sure!

 

[Tim Singleton]

several of us had the new ED Sightron 10-50
i only had trouble a couple times with bullet holes but that’s 2 too many

 

[Greyfox]

I sure have enjoyed this thread. I'm assuming all these folks could see their bullet holes at 300 M?

That would be a mistaken assumption. At one point on the first day (about midday as I recall) the sun was shining on the back of the targets and many could see nothing. I know of at least one competitor who shot an entire score target and never saw a single bullet hole. I shot sixteen rounds on a group target and never saw one. That problem was corrected and did not occur on the second day. It won't happen next year either.
Although the winners are superior shooters, much depended on which relay you drew. On the last score target of the second day, the wind was in the 25 mph range and constantly switching. I could be mistaken, but I think the high score for that relay was around 40. If you look at the list you will see several well know shooters who shot very well on one or two targets and horrible of the others. They didn't forget how to shoot, but some of the conditions were unshootable depending on your draw. The match was a hoot, but not everything was dependent on the chambering or even the skill of the shooter. You've probably heard the saying "I'd rather be lucky than good". It applies.

Rick

 

[HTSmith]

several of us had the new ED Sightron 10-50
i only had trouble a couple times with bullet holes but that’s 2 too many

I'm betting folks came to this match with the best they could muster. That speaks highly of Sightron.

 

[Tim Singleton]

I'm betting folks came to this match with the best they could muster. That speaks highly of Sightron.

several Sightrons and March
I think Billy was shooting one of those big Valdada's

That would be a mistaken assumption. At one point on the first day (about midday as I recall) the sun was shining on the back of the targets and many could see nothing. I know of at least one competitor who shot an entire score target and never saw a single bullet hole. I shot sixteen rounds on a group target and never saw one. That problem was corrected and did not occur on the second day. It won't happen next year either.
Although the winners are superior shooters, much depended on which relay you drew. On the last score target of the second day, the wind was in the 25 mph range and constantly switching. I could be mistaken, but I think the high score for that relay was around 40. If you look at the list you will see several well know shooters who shot very well on one or two targets and horrible of the others. They didn't forget how to shoot, but some of the conditions were unshootable depending on your draw. The match was a hoot, but not everything was dependent on the chambering or even the skill of the shooter. You've probably heard the saying "I'd rather be lucky than good". It applies.

Rick

worst stuff I’ve ever shot in. I shot a 33 score I think on that relay
went from 5th in score to 47th
if you were on those couple relays it didn’t much matter
pretty sure that’s what cost Roy H. the match

 

[JEFFPPC]

I really dont think that was the intent. I think it was that a gun that weighs almost twice as much, with double the bc bullets should be able to handle a short range gun pretty easily. You have the short range guns shooting 130yds farther than they were designed for and the long range guns are just getting started at 300m. Seems to me it was designed to take the short range guys monies if anything.

I have seen quite a few 1000 guys show up at groundhogs matches over the years with their 1000 yd guns and only ever saw 2 of them do well.....one time each. Dusty, I was in the auto business for 51 years. You woyld get rich selling used cars. Sir, you are not getting 14 miles per gallon, this model is designed to get 33 in town, 38 or better on the highway and not only that but................lol.

 

[JEFFPPC]

several of us had the new ED Sightron 10-50
i only had trouble a couple times with bullet holes but that’s 2 too many

Tim, I have one of the new Sightrons also, I really like it.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Thanks Bart!! I think Cabin Fever is going to come early and stay late this winter.

Hopefully the abrupt drift from the OP's question didn't scare him off. There's about half a dozen BR shooters within a half hour or 45 minutes of him of which 4 would probably be willing to help him out if I knew where he was planning to shoot and his current equipment. WD

I’m still here.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Gun, gun, gun.......How about the shooter. Take the best shooter at any match that is inclusive of 100, 200, and 300 yds and have him shoot his rifle in 6br instead of 6ppc and I will give you even money he is still on top.

I guess this was kind of my point. I think for potentially years I would be the same place as either....then when/if I build a real br rifle, I would be better served by the PPC....or at least know enough to make my choice clearly.

 

[nksmfamjp]

you never did say what type of BR you want to attend ?

the short answer to your last question from someone who usually takes the long way to get to somewhere is this
if all you intend to do is shoot local ground hog matches and club matches. Shoot Berger or Sierra Bullets in it, have a great time and meet/make new friends sure the BR will serve you just fine

Short range 100-300 yds

 

[JEFFPPC]

Everyone who makes a buck off the game wants to make it gun. I think shooter means more then most want to admit, nothing to sell. If I was building a rifle for just 1to 3 I would go Ppc Do I think your at a disadvantage with a br. Not for score, maybe group but I will still take a good shooter with a br over a mediocre shooter with a ppc. I do feel lots of rifles come to the line not properly tuned. Many feel a .25 gun is good enough, I want under.2. Gets you those line cutters/misses. I have one goal, be competitive. I do good or bad based on how I steer the rifle and read the conditions. Years ago when I first started I went to the IBS school with my home built br. I wanted to see if I was competitive with the PPC and to learn. Until the last group of the last day I had small group and small egg. I had the only br, all ppcs. I found out the fellow who shot a tiny last group to edge me out had been shooting br for 5 years before attending the school.That told me a br could do well.I still believe that.The difference between the 2 is small. Unless your shooting against the very best every match I think you can do well with a br. That given, if I was limited to 1 rifle for out to 500yds, it would be a ppc.

 

[aka Hunter]

I shot sixteen rounds on a group target and never saw one. That problem was corrected and did not occur on the second day. It won't happen next year either.

What was the correction?

 

[johara1]

That would be a mistaken assumption. At one point on the first day (about midday as I recall) the sun was shining on the back of the targets and many could see nothing. I know of at least one competitor who shot an entire score target and never saw a single bullet hole. I shot sixteen rounds on a group target and never saw one. That problem was corrected and did not occur on the second day. It won't happen next year either.
Although the winners are superior shooters, much depended on which relay you drew. On the last score target of the second day, the wind was in the 25 mph range and constantly switching. I could be mistaken, but I think the high score for that relay was around 40. If you look at the list you will see several well know shooters who shot very well on one or two targets and horrible of the others. They didn't forget how to shoot, but some of the conditions were unshootable depending on your draw. The match was a hoot, but not everything was dependent on the chambering or even the skill of the shooter. You've probably heard the saying "I'd rather be lucky than good". It applies.

Rick

Rick that is so true luck of the draw is an under rated thing. The only fair way is the winners of the relays go head to head on the same relay..... jim

 

[Ccrider]

Rick that is so true luck of the draw is an under rated thing. The only fair way is the winners of the relays go head to head on the same relay..... jim

So, why is this not done?

 

[johara1]

That isn't hard to figure out...... jim

 

[Tim Singleton]

Short range 100-300 yds

Straight answer is
for 100to300 group match
You show up the a 6br you will be at a disadvantage

 

[JEFFPPC]

You all need to re-read the original post. No wonder we have a hard time getting new shooters.You know for all my years of shooting position matches and offhand I always heard that benchrest shooters were snobs. I found this to be untrue but some times I am not so sure. Let a guy try what he wants and perhaps can afford. If a new shooter gets the bug after trying our sport he can expand. But got gotta do this, only this won't work, no that gun can't win a Nationals......just keep chasing them away.....soon there will be none. Yep, pissed off here..

 

[jackieschmidt]

So, why is this not done?

This match was run like a short range Benchrest Match.
In that venue, you shoot into what is out there when your relay comes up. There is no pause for anything unless there is a safety issue, or the shooters can not see the target due to fog.
I have been to National Events where one relay had to shoot in a pouring rain and a 20mph wind. The rain stopped by the time the next relay received their commence fire command, and you could drop a feather and it would float straight dow,.
Was this fair? In the world of Benchrest, yes.
We all know this going in. It is an oddity the te shooters who shoot the most accurate Rifles on the Planet at 100/300 yards compete in what ever Mother Nature hands them at their moment to shoot.
There are Tim’s when the Gods shine on you, and there are times that they sh-t on you.

 

[JoeDuke]

Well said Jackie. The tackdriver match was run exactly like Jim said he was going to run it. It was not set up to be run like a 600 or 100 yard match. I was there and shot the match and got caught by real bad conditions just like a lot of other folks. But, it was what it was. I had a great time and met a number of good folks. I will be back next year.
All sort of folks have come on and given their opinion oh how they thought it should be done. But no one has stepped up to hold the match the way they think it ought to be done.
For the op, I think probably the guys that won could have done so with either a BR or a PPC. They are very accomplished shooters who simply read the conditions better and out shot all the rest of us.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Conditions are part of every match, often determining winner and losers. That is why shoot offs from relay winners is the fairest match. Everyone is competing in the same conditions. Plus, you can't get lucky one time. You must win your relay then win a shoot off. Suggesting a short agg is just as fair is like saying there is no fraud in elections. Now, an agg over an entire season can be fair....or can be made into a money spent game sometimes. Depends how it is set up. Since few matches have shoot offs the luck of relays can be an important factor. Part of the game.