6-6.5x47 Dasherized Imp.

[johara1]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Ackley Improved Lapua???

Hi Scott, have you worked up any loads/chronograph with the 6mm Vortex yet? I would really be interested in hearing more about it. 8)

Yes, I have a few barrels and they all are a little different.

My 8tw likes 42gr of 4350 with 105hyb averaging 3140. Most the matches I shoot have a 3150 speed limit. Otherwise Im sure you could push them much faster. I've got them up to 3250 with H4350 without a stiff bolt lift or any other worrisome pressure signs. However, Im sure the pressure is up there at that point. The x47 case just hides it very well.

I have a 7.7tw that I shoot 115Dtacs in at 3040. They shot pretty well around 3100, but shot fantastic at 3040. Thats 41gr of H4350

My fireform load is 34.5gr of vgt with 107smk(velocity around 2800), but I throw that with a bone stock Dillon thrower on a 650. So it can range from 34-35gr,but it still shoots very, very well. It really surprised me how well it shot, even out to 700yds.

I do have this disclaimer. I highly recommend using a false shoulder and soft primers(ie-205's) when fireforming.I was not able to get enough neck tension to just jam the fire form loads which led to premature case stretch. I dont seem to get any case stretch when using the false shoulder. The other option would be COW. Personally Id rather practice while fireforming so I dont use the COW method.


Let me know if you have any questions.

I have no trouble reaching over 3100 with a Dasher and a 106 bullet in a 28" barrel and it shoots ok i guess if you 1/4 min. but dropping back to under 3066 it goes in a .1. I have a 6.5 x 47 imp. that is sized with a Dasher die with the hole opened to .301 and that is interesting with the 130 - 140 gr. bullets….. jim

Jim,
Is your 6.5 just improved or "Dashered". Either way did you see any notable gain over the standard case?

Story is still out on that 6.5 imp would like to get a 140 @ 2850 with out compressing the H 4350 powder. very close right now,more to come. Working with Berger bullets, but the ones i have it is hard to find two the same. FF. in .3 Looking for a .1 or under I have hit 3000 with other powders but it didn't shoot that good…….. jim

 

[Jason Boersma]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

The speed to shoot 6.5's improved or standard in between 2800 and 2880fps with a 140 gr bullet. I've shot a improved version for three years now and I have found they won't shoot competively going faster than that but you can push a 140 faster than 3000 with h4350. I shoot 140 hybrids at 2860 so far for me that's the bullet to shoot but I will be trying some custom Bullets for next year.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

The speed to shoot 6.5's improved or standard in between 2800 and 2880fps with a 140 gr bullet. I've shot a improved version for three years now and I have found they won't shoot competively going faster than that but you can push a 140 faster than 3000 with h4350. I shoot 140 hybrids at 2860 so far for me that's the bullet to shoot but I will be trying some custom Bullets for next year.

I'm curious?? Do you notice less recoil compared to larger 6.5mm cases shooting the same weight bullet at the same speeds?? Meaning, is there a noticable benefit to improved cases "recoil vs. velocity vs. size of case OAL???"
Also, you mentioned you have a 2,860fps load with your improved case... I as well have a load about that speed or greater with the standard case, 41.7gr H4350 and 140gr Hybrids... But, the problem with shooting the higher node charge is to much powder compression and the bullets maybe working themselves back out the neck over time.. I mention this for those interested in shooting a 6.5x47 at the higher node would benefit from improving the case so compression wouldn't be as bad... How many grains of H4350 are you using for your 2,860fps load?? I ask to compare the pressure your getting at that velocity to what I get with the standard case...

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Ackley Improved Lapua???

Hi Scott, have you worked up any loads/chronograph with the 6mm Vortex yet? I would really be interested in hearing more about it. 8)

Yes, I have a few barrels and they all are a little different.

My 8tw likes 42gr of 4350 with 105hyb averaging 3140. Most the matches I shoot have a 3150 speed limit. Otherwise Im sure you could push them much faster. I've got them up to 3250 with H4350 without a stiff bolt lift or any other worrisome pressure signs. However, Im sure the pressure is up there at that point. The x47 case just hides it very well.

I have a 7.7tw that I shoot 115Dtacs in at 3040. They shot pretty well around 3100, but shot fantastic at 3040. Thats 41gr of H4350

My fireform load is 34.5gr of vgt with 107smk(velocity around 2800), but I throw that with a bone stock Dillon thrower on a 650. So it can range from 34-35gr,but it still shoots very, very well. It really surprised me how well it shot, even out to 700yds.

I do have this disclaimer. I highly recommend using a false shoulder and soft primers(ie-205's) when fireforming.I was not able to get enough neck tension to just jam the fire form loads which led to premature case stretch. I dont seem to get any case stretch when using the false shoulder. The other option would be COW. Personally Id rather practice while fireforming so I dont use the COW method.


Let me know if you have any questions.

I have no trouble reaching over 3100 with a Dasher and a 106 bullet in a 28" barrel and it shoots ok i guess if you 1/4 min. but dropping back to under 3066 it goes in a .1. I have a 6.5 x 47 imp. that is sized with a Dasher die with the hole opened to .301 and that is interesting with the 130 - 140 gr. bullets….. jim

Jim,
Is your 6.5 just improved or "Dashered". Either way did you see any notable gain over the standard case?

Story is still out on that 6.5 imp would like to get a 140 @ 2850 with out compressing the H 4350 powder. very close right now,more to come. Working with Berger bullets, but the ones i have it is hard to find two the same. FF. in .3 Looking for a .1 or under I have hit 3000 with other powders but it didn't shoot that good…….. jim

Like mentioned earlier, you shouldn't have a problem getting 2,850fps with H4350 and Berger 140gr Hybrids in an improved case.. I have an upper node at 41.7gr H4350 with the standard case, it's just not as tolerent as the 39.9-40.1gr H4350 node getting 2,750-2,800fps (this load bugholes in everyones 6.5Lapua!) I would like to see you try H100V,, that's your speed demon there and I've heard great reports on it's use with a 6.5x47,, plus they said it's pretty tolerent to standard shooting tempertures (this info came from a tactical/practical type shooter using H100V in his 6.5 Lapua getting first round hits..) It may just be what your looking for?

 

[Jason Boersma]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

Shootstraight22.
I use 42 gr of H4350 to get 2860 out of a 28" barrel, I have another barrel that takes 43.06 to be able to group good and be around the same speed. Yes the standard case will achieve the same speed as I shoot mine but it will do so with higher pressure, even at 43gr I can still hear powder shaking around in the loaded round. As far as the recoil question, I shoot it in my HG so I can't tell the difference in recoil, a friend of mine shoots the same cartridge in a light gun and has no issues with the recoil. I will be putting a 6.5 barrel on my LG for this next season to see for myself how it shoots as a LG.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

Shootstraight22.
I use 42 gr of H4350 to get 2860 out of a 28" barrel, I have another barrel that takes 43.06 to be able to group good and be around the same speed. Yes the standard case will achieve the same speed as I shoot mine but it will do so with higher pressure, even at 43gr I can still hear powder shaking around in the loaded round. As far as the recoil question, I shoot it in my HG so I can't tell the difference in recoil, a friend of mine shoots the same cartridge in a light gun and has no issues with the recoil. I will be putting a 6.5 barrel on my LG for this next season to see for myself how it shoots as a LG.

Thanks, I'll chrono my 41.7gr H4350 standard case load when I have a chance.. It should provide us with some good numbers to play with in reference/comparison to performance benefits while using the improved case..

 

[johara1]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

The improved version i am playing with has a 40 degree shoulder pushed ahead with a .273 neck. A 12" drop tube is used………. in loading….. works good….. jim

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Ackley Improved Lapua???

I havent done 6x47L ackley, but what I have done is "dasherized" the 6x47L. Which is even more case capacity, but a shorter dasher neck. I originally did it with a 243ai reamer and just ran the reamer short about 160thou or so just to see if I liked it and if it would be less temperamental than the 6x47L.

I really liked it so I had JGS make a reamer. It is called the 6mm Vortex (JGS actually named it that on the print,not me,lol)

It is basically a long Dasher or a short 243ai. I just shortened up a 243ai sizing die and it works great. The case capacity is in between a 6xc and a 6creedmoor. So its a pretty good improvement over the 6x47L.

The reason I did it is because I had a theory that the case capacity is the what makes the 6x47 temperamental. So I figured if I got the capacity closer to 6 creedmoor, which is a very forgiving case to load for, and higher than the 6xc which is also pretty forgiving. I could see if my theory had any validity.

Whether that was the problem or not I dont know for sure, but I can say with out a doubt that this case is much more forgiving than the 6x47L. Honestly the fireform loads are more consistent than any of my 6x47L's ever were.


I know some people have had great luck with the 6x47L, but it seems to me that many more people do not.

Anyhow, hope that helps.

Scott, when guys com[plain about experiencing problems or temperment with the 6-6.5x47 what are yall speaking of.. Are you talking about the accuracy nodes just being small like say .3 grains or less window or having to rework your load after every .010 of barrel wear... It doesn't have to be them two issues but could you or someone else please describe what tempermental load problems you experience with this cartridge.. Thanks

 

[scott_at_vortex]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Ackley Improved Lapua???

I havent done 6x47L ackley, but what I have done is "dasherized" the 6x47L. Which is even more case capacity, but a shorter dasher neck. I originally did it with a 243ai reamer and just ran the reamer short about 160thou or so just to see if I liked it and if it would be less temperamental than the 6x47L.

I really liked it so I had JGS make a reamer. It is called the 6mm Vortex (JGS actually named it that on the print,not me,lol)

It is basically a long Dasher or a short 243ai. I just shortened up a 243ai sizing die and it works great. The case capacity is in between a 6xc and a 6creedmoor. So its a pretty good improvement over the 6x47L.

The reason I did it is because I had a theory that the case capacity is the what makes the 6x47 temperamental. So I figured if I got the capacity closer to 6 creedmoor, which is a very forgiving case to load for, and higher than the 6xc which is also pretty forgiving. I could see if my theory had any validity.

Whether that was the problem or not I dont know for sure, but I can say with out a doubt that this case is much more forgiving than the 6x47L. Honestly the fireform loads are more consistent than any of my 6x47L's ever were.


I know some people have had great luck with the 6x47L, but it seems to me that many more people do not.

Anyhow, hope that helps.

Scott, when guys com[plain about experiencing problems or temperment with the 6-6.5x47 what are yall speaking of.. Are you talking about the accuracy nodes just being small like say .3 grains or less window or having to rework your load after every .010 of barrel wear... It doesn't have to be them two issues but could you or someone else please describe what tempermental load problems you experience with this cartridge.. Thanks

All of the above and even worse sometimes. If I had any hair the 6x47 case would have made me pull it all out. Its funny too, cause the 6.5x47 is the exact opposite.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

I've heard of people complaining about the 6-6.5x47 and I've also heard guys praising it.. I'm curious if it likes a particular freebore/twist combo or something like that??? I know Team Short Action use the round with a .100 freebore and 1-8 twist.. They love it and the leading man for two years straight shoots it in the PRS.. I was told to leave the long free bores alone with it but shoot the .100...

 

[scott_at_vortex]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

I've heard of people complaining about the 6-6.5x47 and I've also heard guys praising it.. I'm curious if it likes a particular freebore/twist combo or something like that??? I know Team Short Action use the round with a .100 freebore and 1-8 twist.. They love it and the leading man for two years straight shoots it in the PRS.. I was told to leave the long free bores alone with it but shoot the .100...

Dave Preston(who you are referring to and won the PRS this year) runs our scopes and he is a friend of mine. We have had the 6x47 discussion on a number of occasions. I can tell you that while he has had very good success with the 6x47 he has also fought with a few.

There certainly are those that have had great success with the 6x47, but the number is relatively small compared to those that have not. That certainly is not scientific data, but rather my perception over the years from talking to people and reading numerous threads about it on this forum.

I can tell you that I have had 5 or 6 barrels chambered in 6x47 (different brands(Bartlein.(brux,benchmark,kreiger),twists,etc) and was never completely satisfied with any of them. I have since rechambered all of those very same exact barrels into either 6mm Vortex or 6 creedmoor and they all have been non-temperamental hammers with very little load development.

Again, this has just been my personal experience.

It certainly could have just been something I was doing wrong or even a mental thing. I dont know, but I tried everything under the sun to get those things to shoot the way I wanted

 

[savagedasher]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

I've heard of people complaining about the 6-6.5x47 and I've also heard guys praising it.. I'm curious if it likes a particular freebore/twist combo or something like that??? I know Team Short Action use the round with a .100 freebore and 1-8 twist.. They love it and the leading man for two years straight shoots it in the PRS.. I was told to leave the long free bores alone with it but shoot the .100...

Dave Preston(who you are referring to and won the PRS this year) runs our scopes and he is a friend of mine. We have had the 6x47 discussion on a number of occasions. I can tell you that while he has had very good success with the 6x47 he has also fought with a few.

There certainly are those that have had great success with the 6x47, but the number is relatively small compared to those that have not. That certainly is not scientific data, but rather my perception over the years from talking to people and reading numerous threads about it on this forum.

I can tell you that I have had 5 or 6 barrels chambered in 6x47 (different brands(Bartlein.(brux,benchmark,kreiger),twists,etc) and was never completely satisfied with any of them. I have since rechambered all of those very same exact barrels into either 6mm Vortex or 6 creedmoor and they all have been non-temperamental hammers with very little load development.

Again, this has just been my personal experience.

It certainly could have just been something I was doing wrong or even a mental thing. I dont know, but I tried everything under the sun to get those things to shoot the way I wanted

Same problem I had. I got it better but not near the same barrel did with a dasher chamber Larry

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

That's what worrys me.. I'm about to rebarrel and don't want to fall on the 6mm Creed band wagon.. The PRS is going to end up like NasCar with everyone using the same thing! I like to compete against many variables in competition.. And please, don't anyone ask "is wind not enough," because hell no!!!

 

[scott_at_vortex]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

That's what worrys me.. I'm about to rebarrel and don't want to fall on the 6mm Creed band wagon.. The PRS is going to end up like NasCar with everyone using the same thing! I like to compete against many variables in competition.. And please, don't anyone ask "is wind not enough," because hell no!!!

If something works it works. The 6creedmoor is a great cartridge. I wouldnt let that be a reason not to build one. That being said, the 6 Vortex is is pretty much identical to the 6cm as far as load data and velocities go. The difference being better brass.

The majority of the time I still shoot my 6.5x47 in matches. Just as many PRS matches are won with 6.5's. The cartridges we are discussing will not make anyone place higher. Dave Preston would have won the PRS if he was shooting a 6.5. He is just a stud, the boy can shoot, simple as that.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

That's what worrys me.. I'm about to rebarrel and don't want to fall on the 6mm Creed band wagon.. The PRS is going to end up like NasCar with everyone using the same thing! I like to compete against many variables in competition.. And please, don't anyone ask "is wind not enough," because hell no!!!

If something works it works. The 6creedmoor is a great cartridge. I wouldnt let that be a reason not to build one. That being said, the 6 Vortex is is pretty much identical to the 6cm as far as load data and velocities go. The difference being better brass.

The majority of the time I still shoot my 6.5x47 in matches. Just as many PRS matches are won with 6.5's. The cartridges we are discussing will not make anyone place higher. Dave Preston would have won the PRS if he was shooting a 6.5. He is just a stud, the boy can shoot, simple as that.

You don't think the added benefit of around 2 pounds less recoil for a 15lb gun helps?? I noticed at the Grind my 6.5Lapua slowing me some because of recoil off the target on high mag... I just thought the smoother recoil would be neat to shoot.. I just love my Lapua brass and find it hard to switch to a 6mm Creed!

 

[LRPV]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

A little off topic guys but I have to ask about how the brass thing works in the PRS and that type of matches. What is the procedure for picking up your spent cases? Do you have time after you shoot or what? I seems like I've heard guys complaining about losing a lot of brass? I was just curious since I'd like to try this deal out some day. Thanks.

 

[SHootSTraight22]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

A little off topic guys but I have to ask about how the brass thing works in the PRS and that type of matches. What is the procedure for picking up your spent cases? Do you have time after you shoot or what? I seems like I've heard guys complaining about losing a lot of brass? I was just curious since I'd like to try this deal out some day. Thanks.

We sort through brass at the end of matches on a table or something... Or pick it up when a stage is over if time permits... But yes, you'll lose some brass at times.. It's the price you pay to compete in a match that allows even a guy that places 30th to go home with more than $1,000 in swag off the table... I myself take as much advantage of the price table and free swag as I can! Guys like myself that don't have sponsors "live and breath" off these price/swag tables!! For example, over a period of time competing in certain awsome matches like "GAP Grind" a person can collect enough free stuff to built a trainer rifle in 223/308 cal for practicing,, or lets say you need some lower scope mounts but can't purchase any at the moment because you had to buy 500ct Berger Hybrids 6.5mm bullets for $200, well in that case you would keep an eye out for some lower Badger rings at the next match you attended.. Obtaining a sponsor isn't about how good you shoot but how many large venues you attend every year or wither you just happen to work for a particular company or not.. Well, these large matches require money to attend, a lot of money once you add in gear and travel. So our sponsors (PRS) really help guys out when they put items on the table or offer large discounts. I feel it would be hard to beat the kindness our PRS sponsors show in any sport not just shooting!! Right now I'm working on obtaining 20,000 plus acres as a future PRS match venue in Alabama. I'm trying to work something out with the buisness owner that trains bomb dogs to get involved in firearm training (gov/leo and civilian side focused on long range shooting) and one of his big things he's worried about is obtaining the money he'll need to clear out the square range I proposed.. One of my ideas to save money was to involve local buisness owners that like to shoot to donate free things in exchange for life time use of the range (free things like medal, medal storage units "Conx's", timber clearing/excavating, and even the steel targets can be made local..) I told him to involve shooting industry leaders in the building of the place as well so they can push their product there (like GA Precision and Kahles is involved with K&M..) Him having 20,000 plus acres and a 1 mile airstrip plus gov. certifide LZ's (landing zones plus drop zones) can help push the PRS sport to the next level and once the word of this place gets out I feel the sponsors will flock to it!! The PRS sponsors being as kind as they are plus buisness savy will regonize a good thing when they see it and in exchange for their aid in building up the facility they will be able to connect their product to the facility like they own it themselves! Everyone loves long range shooting when they try it, and with the US Army Marksmanship Unit getting involved now with the PRS we can push this thing to heights unforseen to the next level.. If that isn't enough to make a person lose 100 cases a year then I don't know what is???!!!

 

[Dale264]

Re: 6-6.5x47 Imp. Dashtex Long

I know this is a long dead thread but a co-worker of mine stumbled across a Vortex podcast from 2018 where you mentioned the 6 Vortex. After a quick google search i found this post and was quite impressed with all the info. Just wondering if you're still shooting the 6 vortex? Whats the barrel life been like on your barrels?"

 

[357Mag]

Shootstraight -

Howdy !

Was reading you thoughts about a 6mm wildcat w/ case capacity that you believe might rival a .243Win .

Unless the base-to-shoulder dimension was longer for the wildcat, or the shoulder diam were significantly larger than what the .243Win features......
I wouldn’t think the wildcat’s case capacity would rival the .243 ?

The modest shoulder angle of the .243Win allows its shoulder area to hold a goodly amount of powder. As the new wildcat’s shoulder angle sharpens towards 40*; the case’ capacity drops in result.... compared to the more modest angles. That should also hold fairly true, when looking @ allowable powder space for charges that approach the base of a bullet that is seated to say..... the depth of the neck-shoulder juncture.

Just thinking.....


With regards,
357Mag

 

[steve123]

In a sense it's just as much the ability of a cartridge case to handle extra pressure vs a slightly higher capacity case that can't handle the same amount of pressure.

For example a standard 243 large rifle primer american case wouldn't hold a primer anymore after the first firing at say 64,000 psi??. Even though it has a few more grains powder capacity it can't achieve as much velocity with the lower pressures it was designed to run at, this is compared to a small rifle primer Lapua 6x47L case at the same 64,000 psi.

As an experiment on a aged barrel I loaded 42.5 (IIRC?? - and NO don't try it unless you work up slowly like I did) grains of R17 into a 6x47 case with 105 grain Bergers, the chrono showed 3345 fps and the primer held. A few minutes later with a little less R17 and a experimental 115 DTAC load was going 3250 fps.

Also years later I tried some 95smk's in a different barrel with a case full of R17(experiment), almost 3600 fps, same thing, the case still held a primer, sheesh.

In both examples above my goal was to stop when the bolt got sticky, which is what happened.

Kinda the same reason little tiny 6mmBRA's in Lapua cases can get 105's to 3000 fps and still hold a primer.

Many years ago 243win was my go-to and I remember throwing cases out in 4-5 firings with what seemed like medium pressure signs. Being a poor young guy with kids I was careful to try to make the brass last.

Now I'm at 38 firings with my 6x47 brass and I was not nice to them at all, they lasted 11 years and have more life left in them, poor things!!!

I imagine one could push a 6mm Vortex to ridiculous speeds if wanted because of the strong case and greater powder capacity.