6.5 for deer...2600 fps <<< VS >>> 2800 fps...???
- Thread starter daniel brothers
- Start date
I think so. Shot many more with the Accubond.
Dan, I am no expert. I am still learning. The last 5 deer that I have shot were with a 120 ballistic tips out of my 6.5x47. I am getting 2900 ish FPS out of a 23” barrel. None of these deer ran very far, if ran at all. Never intended to hunt with this bullet. Planned to hunt with a heavier bullet. I tried it for grins. Had some left from a long gone 260. I am getting unexpectedly great accuracy out of this bullet and 38.1gr Varget (above book max).
In answer to your question.... DRT seems to be more of a function of where you hit the deer. This said, I think the Accubond may be a little too tough for good expansion at lower speeds. If I were looking for the perfect 6.5 CM deer bullet I would probably go heavier than 120gr, simply for better long range performance. I would not take a 500y shot with the 120 ballistic tip in my rifle. Would be much more confident taking that shot with a 130-140gr 6.5mm. A high B.C. bullet will give you more options, provided it will expand properly at long range velocities.
Shot my first Whitetail buck with a 270 Win and a 140 Accubond.. Was a stock Remington 700 with factory rounds. I should have stuck with that combo and saved myself countless dollars and time spent chasing the perfect rifle/handload.
It gave you something to do at least. I know some people dump money at casinos or video poker. I chase stupid loads, too many at this point. My 270 shoots Hornady American whitetail factory at about 1.3' 4 shot groups at 100, it does 130gr a bit larger, and shoots 150gr Norma factory ammo at just about an inch maybe also 1.3. I've got some good handloads which were not cheap or easy to find. It's stressful knowing that you're going to need more then a full box of bergers to develop 1 hunting load lol. If I stay in this sport much longer I'm certainly going to need 2 hunting guns and a BR target gun. Doing it all with my rem700clone 270 is getting a tad out of control
That is a pretty broad question. Any bullet is drt, if you hit the right spot. Lung/heart shots can be either. I am a fan of 129 Interlocks and 147 ELDMs, in my Creed and .260.
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Have you tried the Berger Classic Hunters in your 270? They are much less finicky.
ImBIllT
Silver $$ Contributor
I don’t know if it matters, but 3300fps with VLDs was hard to beat last season. Two big muleys died as fast or faster any deer I’ve ever killed with anything else, including a .30cal Nosler BT at 3400. Most behind the shoulder lung hits are going to result in a running deer no matter what you shoot them with. You are literally doing nothing but making them bleed and you have to wait that out. I prefer it though. It saves meat and drains the blood even better than hanging. You let the heart clear the blood from the muscle for you instead of relying on gravity. Still, those VLDs dropped them in their tracks. They just fragment so incredibly that they destroy so many capillaries that the deer bleed out in a matter of seconds instead of a minute or more.
I must also admit though, destroying the autonomic nerve plexus in the brisket area will drop them instantly no matter what you shoot them with as will a spine shot(aimed top of the back once at a doe I thought was a little farther away.) A shot on the shoulder bone, while it messes up some good burger meat, you’d flat iron steak, and mock tender, will anchor them very well and bleed them well even with tough bullets because it not only initiates expansion, but tends to send lots of bone into the heart/lung area as well.
I must also admit though, destroying the autonomic nerve plexus in the brisket area will drop them instantly no matter what you shoot them with as will a spine shot(aimed top of the back once at a doe I thought was a little farther away.) A shot on the shoulder bone, while it messes up some good burger meat, you’d flat iron steak, and mock tender, will anchor them very well and bleed them well even with tough bullets because it not only initiates expansion, but tends to send lots of bone into the heart/lung area as well.
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I have never shot anything with a bullet moving that fast. Per the bullet manufacturers, the Ballistic Tip and HVLD would not perform well on game at close distance at that speed. 3400 is smoking fast for a 30 cal.
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I have shot whitetails with a 140 Berger HVLD out of a 24" barrel 6.5 creed at 2,950 FPS MV and at 400 yards it was DRT devastating. I can tell you honestly if a 200 yards shot is MAX distance I would shoot a 140 Nosler Partition I dont think there is a better bullet up close if you can get them to shoot hunting rifle accurate and hit at 200 yards with them. I think the Hornady 143 ELDX is a decent bullet. The thing is deer are not hard to kill a well placed shot with a bullet that expands or comes apart and they are DRT. Now I always felt the tough bullets out of 30/06's high speed 140's in a 7mag pass right through them and they are dead on their feet but run a short distance. Sometime they just run and I dont care they just do. But 95% of the time a high shoulder shot with a expanding bullet like the Berger HVLD they drop right there. Only other bullet that works great up close is the Nosler Partition and it really maybe the best hunting bullet if you never shoot past 200 yards and you get them to shoot. My 280AI when I am in the woods where the shooting is 50-100 yards I stick in a 160 Nosler Partition. I think if you go to a to controlled expansion bonded cores. Barnes ect they pass right through and run. the partition comes right apart but the rear core drives clean through and really maybe the best killing bullet ever where other are through before they really expand. deer really are not that tough hit correctly. Heck you can drop them at 50 yards with a 223. most people are way over gunned for whitetails.
ImBIllT
Silver $$ Contributor
Berger does not list a maximum velocity for their VLD’s and claims that they are the only bullet that works equally well at both short and long range. They might be right. Two seasons ago 185 VLDs at 2650fps anchored a muley and a hog perfectly, and they died in a reasonable time frame. The muley shot was a double lung and I was impressed with the fact that he stayed put. The hog was hit far enough back that I couldn’t believe he quit running and died quickly. I emailed Burger and asked if I needed to worry about 6.5 130 VLDH bullets blowing up at 26 Nosler velocities in an 8.5 twist. They said it should be no problem. Now two big heavy muleys agree. One was hit near the autonomic nervous plexus at about 150yds. I’ve never seen such a near instant kill, so the shock must have distrupted the nervous system. The second was hit with a slightly high meat saver at 385yds. His back legs dropped, he tried biting at whatever was getting him, and he died within 2-3 seconds. I’ve never seen a double lung kill that fast. Upon inspection there was a cut in the spine although he was hit 3-4” lower than that. I think a fragment damaged the spine and dropped his back legs, but he still bled out VERY quickly for a double lung shot. Both animals were hit close enough to nervous tissue that any bullet with reasonable expansion would have resulted in good kills, so it’s difficult to know how much credit to give the VLDs, but they did perform spectacularly and probably better than something else would have.
All this was after having three spectacular bullet failures with VLDs three years ago! The acted like FMJs! I emailed Burger, they assured me that it would not happen again, sent me a free box of my choosing, said they wanted to test my box of bullets, and asked me a liist if questions about what I was doing with my bullets. They responded “WE DO NOT RECOMMEND POINTING BULLETS USED FOR HUNTING”. Frankly I haven’t seen that claim in their literature, and it needs to be printed on the boxes. I stopped pointing bullets I hunt with and I couldn’t be more pleased with my results.
The WT I shot with 125 BTs at 3400fps was a disappointment. First shot was back a little on a meatsaver. He was quartering to me more than I noticed. It caught one lung and then went back into guts. The deer ran like nothing happened(like most meatsaver shots). When I came to where I’d shot him expecting a bloodbath and a short trail to a deer, I found a couple little drops(like a gut shot with no exit does) It took me a good while to find him, and he was still on his feet, but in poor condition. I double lunged him at 50yds and he dropped, but when I got to him he was still breathing and after giving him a moment to pass I ended up slitting his throat to put him out of his misery. Neither bullet exited. Velocity does not tell the whole story.
I’ve shot deer with other bullets from a .243 and 30-06 with normal deer results. I’ve shot hogs with lots of things, interestingly including 55gr Lapua softpoints. From a .222 at 2900fps they penetrate well, expand well, and kill okay with proper placement. From a .223 AI at 3600fps the blow up on the surface and DONT KILL. I even shot a bobcat with one scattering chunks in a 30yd radius and took us an hour to find him. When we did find him he was missing his ribcage. I’ve only killed four animals with VLDs since I stopped pointing them, but currently I’m VERY happy with them. I’m taking 180gr Elite Hunters on an elk hunt in Oct.
Oregon Shooter says....
I shoot a .260 98% of the time when deer hunting. I have killed 50 or so deer with the 260 and 100 grain Nosler BT bullets. Needless to say they go a bit faster then what you are talking about but my gun is capable of shooting a walnut EVEY shot at 200 yards and on days when my eyes co-operate I can hit an Acorn 75% of the time. Most deer have been shot at 200 to 350 yards or so. I normally will have a good rest but not a benchrest! I shoot them behind the shoulders and most run less then 20 yards as the bullet always exits and leaves a hole that varies between a silver dollar and the size of your fist. It just hammers them! I have killed a number of them with a high shoulder shot and they are DRT but that 100 grain ballistic tip really opens up when it hits the shoulder. Some meat loss does not hurt my feelings as it does some guys. I like deer that are EASY to find and this bullet does that every time. I would not worry about 200fps if accuracy has been achieved. As in all things I ask myself this question.... What are you going to do with it? How far is the max shot this guy will take? How real is the chance of a max shot vs an average shot for the ground that you hunt? Keep it under 300 yards and shoot them behind the shoulder. DRT? Maybe not... but the deer will not be far away and Ray Charles could follow the blood train when I use the 100 grain Nosler BT. I have NEVER lost a deer when shooting this bullet and I have never had one go 50 yards. I have shot tons of deer with an 06 or a 270 behind the shoulder and they have mostly gone farther then the deer killed with this load.
Good stuff Oregon Shooter... I will look into those bullets...thanks..Dan
I shoot a .260 98% of the time when deer hunting. I have killed 50 or so deer with the 260 and 100 grain Nosler BT bullets. Needless to say they go a bit faster then what you are talking about but my gun is capable of shooting a walnut EVEY shot at 200 yards and on days when my eyes co-operate I can hit an Acorn 75% of the time. Most deer have been shot at 200 to 350 yards or so. I normally will have a good rest but not a benchrest! I shoot them behind the shoulders and most run less then 20 yards as the bullet always exits and leaves a hole that varies between a silver dollar and the size of your fist. It just hammers them! I have killed a number of them with a high shoulder shot and they are DRT but that 100 grain ballistic tip really opens up when it hits the shoulder. Some meat loss does not hurt my feelings as it does some guys. I like deer that are EASY to find and this bullet does that every time. I would not worry about 200fps if accuracy has been achieved. As in all things I ask myself this question.... What are you going to do with it? How far is the max shot this guy will take? How real is the chance of a max shot vs an average shot for the ground that you hunt? Keep it under 300 yards and shoot them behind the shoulder. DRT? Maybe not... but the deer will not be far away and Ray Charles could follow the blood train when I use the 100 grain Nosler BT. I have NEVER lost a deer when shooting this bullet and I have never had one go 50 yards. I have shot tons of deer with an 06 or a 270 behind the shoulder and they have mostly gone farther then the deer killed with this load.
Good stuff Oregon Shooter... I will look into those bullets...thanks..Dan
I am thrilled with the terminal performance of the 120 Ballistic Tip in my 6.5x47 on Whitetail. This is at 2900 fps mv. Most of my shots with this rifle have been under 200y and at <140lb does. I had one weird experience with a dead doe and no visible entry or exit. This was probably about 250y shot. The processer and I looked for several minutes to find the bullet. At first it seemed like I had scared the deer to death. The bullet went in high above and behind the shoulder ultimately lodging in her neck/spine. I was going for a mid shoulder shot. I am fairly certain that I hit a corn stalk prior to hitting the doe. I have hit a corn stalk before and missed the deer. Seems like this should not happen but has to me. Anyone else had their shot altered by a corn stalk? This is stubble not with leaves and ears of corn.
Doing a bit of ballistic calculations on the 140 sst at the speeds you stated
2600 fps mv
100 yard 2433 fps
200 yard 2272 fps
Stays above 2000 fps till 400 yard at 1968 fps
2800 fps mv
100 yard 2625 fps
200 yard 2540 fps
Stays above 2000 fps till 500 yard at 1990 fps
I would go with the most accurate load regardless speed. Although hornadys web site says it is designed to expand explosively ecspecially at higher velocities.
2600 fps mv
100 yard 2433 fps
200 yard 2272 fps
Stays above 2000 fps till 400 yard at 1968 fps
2800 fps mv
100 yard 2625 fps
200 yard 2540 fps
Stays above 2000 fps till 500 yard at 1990 fps
I would go with the most accurate load regardless speed. Although hornadys web site says it is designed to expand explosively ecspecially at higher velocities.
How many tags you guys got. I have four. Several buddy's have four So we do get quite a few bullets tested in a season. So I could see maybe 24 or so whitetails down this season if everyone scores. I usually get 3 for myself and family eat them. They there are always other guy's stories. So shoot a few at 2,600 and a few at 2,800 FPS and see if you see any difference and I doubt if they are hit where they should be you would. we shoot across the hills so most all of us are set up to shoot to 1K and we shoot and practice year round. So all my rifles are set to shoot as fast as I can make them go and still hit targets. So we shoot groups out to about 700 yards and hit's on targets out to 1K. Most of are shots are 200-600 but we can get further if you look for it. By buddy has wacked a few in the high 900's my furthest is 750. but I prefer 500-600 or really closer if I can find them. but we will sit on top a hill where we can see a lot of ground and glass until we find one you can't stalk them we shoot from where we are. then the long hike to get them I actually pass a lot of shots because I'm not going over there to get one..I guess because I have done it hundreds of times and it can take a half day to get there and get one out. At 53 years old I just don't shoot a lot of them shots anymore due to I know what kind of job it is getting to them and dragging one out from way over there. I shoot them where I can drag downhill to a road. lol.. My buddy's dad shot one once a year or two ago he is in his 70's about 800 yards. across two sets of hills, over a rail road track (a High one) then across a deep creek the kind you cant jump across. my buddy's went and got it for him.. I said no way been there done that.
I get lots of bullet testing done over the year, also. I do some depredation work for a neighbor during the summer. I killed 27 does on those permits this year. I shot them with 147 Eldm and 129 Interlocks, in my .260 and Creed. 150 Interlocks got to play in my 06 and .308. The longest shot was a lazered 405, and that was with the 147. I have really been impressed with the 147 on deer/antelope so far.
I also have 10 regular/late season doe deer tags to fill, plus three doe antelope tags. The 147s in my Creed will get the nod for the antelope, for sure. The deer will be taken with a hodge podge of calibers, including a muzzle loader. Lots of fun and bullet flinging ahead!
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