6*284 starting loads

[bozo699]

Hey fellas,
I have a 6*284 1:8 28" Krieger Lapua 6.5*284 brass n/k down
It will shoot 105 bergers M/C with 51.0 grains of RL-22 and 215M primers fairly well but am trying some 115 M/C bergers with same recipe- a couple grains of powder and all load development has been @ 300 yards can't get it under 1/2 min @ best and usually around 2" I don't have much data on this cartridge and usually don't like to ask for pet loads but could someone steer me in the right direction. The barrel is broke in and ready to do some serious shooting but I don't want to wear it out trying multiple different things as it has a notable short barrel life which is fine but I want to wear it out on the line not my own range working up loads. Again I would like to shoot the 115s under 1/2 min if possible out to 1000 yds. Thanks for any personal experiences or advice on the subject.
Wayne.

 

[jonbearman]

If my memory serves me wayne,my buddy used h4831 with real good results.I will research it.It is listed at 39-45 grains of h4831 or short cut. We were able to shoot al the bullets into a .300 hole at 125 yds over and over with a hart barrel and lighter bullets right up to the 105 grainers that hornady lists as the heaviest they recommend.If you are going to shoot heavier adjust accordingly.Hope this helps.Maybe someone will chime in who has the ackley books as it is listed their I believe.

 

[jonbearman]

I have read 2 articles and both concur that the lighter 60-87 grainers approx really shine in this wildcat.They like the imr 4350,h4831 and the older mr 3100(accurate arms) powder. He likes the 60 grain sierra w/57.0 of imr4350(do not exceed) The 85 grain sierra likes imr 4350 at 54 grains , This is older data out of an article written byMike Venturino.The hornady manual,the red 2 book edition lists this cartridge and plenty of options.Remember that you must work up from the bottom! I hope this helps as Venturino was only really interested in high velocity and prarie dogs.I hope this is some help to get started.Try reloaders nest for more imfo and al's eclectic web page as there are links to reloading wildcats.

 

[johnmyers]

Wayne,
I'm hearing some good things about Ramshot Magnum. I have a new 6-284 with a 28" 1:8 on the way and that's the powder I'm starting with. Probably around 55gr with 115's and work up to around 60gr. Good luck and let me know how you get along, I'll do the same. You have a pm.
John

 

[bozo699]

John,
Thanks I'll check into that for sure, and thanks.
Wayne.

 

[johnmyers]

Wayne you have a pm

 

[bozo699]

John,
I got your pm thank you very much for taking a interest and helping me on this, I had the magnum powder in my hands today and put it back and bought Retumbo instead ??? I will give the guy you mentioned a call tomorrow its my day off Thanks again so much John.
Wayne.

 

[averh2o]

You said your barrel is an 8 twist. I believe Berger wants a faster twist for the 115 grain. I haven't tried them yet but the box on my shelf says 7.5 twist. The 115 Dtac would not shoot well in several 8 twist 6 XC barrels but accuracy was great with the 105-107s. Just a thought

 

[bozo699]

You said your barrel is an 8 twist. I believe Berger wants a faster twist for the 115 grain. I haven't tried them yet but the box on my shelf says 7.5 twist. The 115 Dtac would not shoot well in several 8 twist 6 XC barrels but accuracy was great with the 105-107s. Just a thought

averh20,
I know several guy's getting away with shooting 115s with the 1:8 but your right berger says 1.7.5 I know my 6xc has a 1:7.5 and I still haven't found the perfect load for the 115s it shoots ok but it shoots the 107s way better,I always thought it just didn't quite have enough boiler room but that cant be the case with the 6*284. I haven't tried any other powders with this gun yet so that will be my next step and I see Midway has 107 Sierra's on sale and that is step # two I have NEVER had the luck every one else has had with bergers so I don't know why I bought 500 of ea. 105s and 115s ??? When I have never had a problem getting Sierras to shoot. Oh well I will just keep plugging away and I sure appreciate all the help.
Wayne

 

[GLC]

Try the 115 dtac bit more forgiving than the Berger 115, I had serious problems with. 7.5 twist and a 8 twist 6x284 (7.5 was exploding bullets at 300 yards) and the 8 twist does not produce anything satisfactory, however my 6x47 sm shoots lights out with the dtac with a 1:8 go figure? a good friend has virtually identical set up with. 7.5 twist in 6x284 and his shoots extremely well with retumbo and now r17 and 115 Dtac.

 

[RossL]

Hi Bozo 699,

Can we take you seriously with a handle like yours? <grin>

I should take delivery on my 6mm-284 in just a few days. Maybe even by the weekend!

I have read every thread available here and over the net.

I chose a 30" 1 in 7.5 5R Bartlein reamer is pacific .276 neck for .003" neck release.

From what I have found there are many good reports of using retumbo with the 115s. RL-25 and H-1000 are often mentioned. I will start with retumbo but may have to try RL-17.

I also have read repeatedly that the bergers may have integrity issues with the velocities this chambering can deliver. GLC said the DTAC bullets are more forgiving and that is also frequently stated. I heard it time and again that it is easier to find a load with the DTACs. They are made by Sierra.

There were a few individuals that got good results with either 115 at velocities of 3200-3250. I think that might be about all they can deliver accurately.

You and I will certainly know much more in a few weeks. My fallback bullet will be the 107 sierra, another forgiving bullet.
I have heard reports of up to 3500 fps with that 107 with longer barrels and the 6mm-284. Quite frankly I really want to shoot the 115s and if they will shoot accurately at 3100-3150 I'd be happy.

Two of my friends shoot 1000 BR which I don't do. They also bought the exact same bartlein barrel. They are going to make 6mm SLRs with theirs. All of us will be trying DTACs as our first choice. Will be interesting to compare our results. If it is worthy I'll post it later this spring.

Good shooting. Be sure to tell us what worked best for your rig.

Ross

 

[RossL]

It has been several days since I posted here. Amazed that it stayed on the front page and no other comments added.


Broke in the new 5R bartlein barrel on Saturday. Going out again today for second session.

Using 115 DTAC seated .010" into lands. Tried Retumbo and RL-17

Results so far:

Retumbo Worked up to 53 gr with fair accuracy vel of only 3075.

RL-17 started at 45 grs and worked up in one gr increments to 49 which showed pressure. 45 gr yielded 3075. 47 and 48 grs showed some accuracy potential right away velocity was 3200 and 3265 respectively.

I did notice an issue with neck tension when using a collet type bullet puller. The neck tension is VERY tight. I have not acquired redding S bushing die yet. I am using Hornady dies. The necks are reduced the typical .003" that most manufacturers use. The brass is norma 6.5-284 necked down. Wall thickness is .0155" which has to be the cause of so much tension. So...I decided to use the K and M mandrel to open up the necks and discovered that the mandrel opens up the necks by .002". This makes the difference between a sized neck and a bullet seated in the neck a mere .001".
I seated a few bullets into dummy rounds and put them into the rifle. The bullets did not move. Pulled the bullets and the resistance seems much better. I will use this new tension when I continue the load testing.

I will try 47, 47.5 and 48 gr of RL-17 with new bullet tension today and also work up to higher loads with retumbo. Will report here soon.

Ross

 

[RossL]

Getting closer to a finalized load. RL-17 and 115 DTAC are working nicely together.

Ended up turning off .001" off the necks. Now bullet release clearance is .004". The difference between the OD of the neck before and after bullet is seated is .002".

Third shooting session:

Worked up past the first test of 53 gr of retumbo to max of 57. Nothing showed any great grouping. Noticed a very sooty buildup of powder residue on necks. Top velocity was 3265.

Continued trying RL-17. No residue on necks with this powder.
Tried shooting the 47 and 48 gr load again. 47 grs seemed better. Vel 3200 with very consistent shot to shot velocities.

Fourth session:

This time I manipulated bullet seating depth. All loads to this point had the 115 DTAC .010" into the rifling. Decided to skip .005" into rifling and touching the rifling seating depths. Started with .005" jump to rifling. Continued with .005" increments: .010", .015, .020, .025.

.005" jump shot the best. Going back today to verify the best load.

The 5R Bartlein is cleaning up nicely. Can shoot 25 rounds through it with minimal fouling. It now has 80 rounds through it.


Hope some of this is helping you Bozo.

 

[bozo699]

RossL,
Absolutely this helps, weather permitting I am heading out today to try both the Retumbo and the RL-17. I purchased both powders last week but the wind was blowing 25-30 mph so no reason to even try shooting.Yesterday one of my rifle smiths was down @ my place shooting a couple of his new builds and had a customer from Colorado that had purchased a rifle up teaching him how to shoot,clean,and load for his new rifle so I didn't get to shoot then, today is my last day before I have to go back to work I hope I can get-ur-done. I ordered some 115 d-tacs there not here yet nor is the 105 Lapua's or 107 Seirras but I have 1o5 and 115 Bergers and will try them with the two powder combo's, will let you know my results, thanks again.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

RossL,
I shot the 6*284 late this afternoon, it was sunny and clear, slight breeze to 6 or 7 mph @ times, 40* I only used Ramshot Magnum powder and 115 bergers, federal 210m and federal 215m primers and 6.5 Lapua brass necked down to 6mm. Measured groups with crude tape measure but as large as they were a caliper wasn't needed 3 shot groups ranged from 3/8" to 1/2" and 5 shot groups ranged from 5/8"to 3/4"had several groups with ES of 10 and SD of 5 I found no significant increase in velocity over 52.0 grains 51.5 gr gave me about 2970 fps For a hunting rifle this would be fine but it won't due for a 1k yard gun. The Magnum powder metered very well. I plan on trying RL 17 tomorrow, with RL 22 I could easily obtain 3200 fps and if I can't shoot the 115s 3100 or better I might as well drop back to the 105s, Thanks for the help more tomorrow.
Wayne.

 

[RossL]

Bozo,

Thanks for sharing. I found Retumbo to deliver the velocity past 3200 but accuracy suffered. Retesting the RL-17 yesterday with best seating depth showed that there are a few fliers. I'd get 4 or 5 into a tiny 1/4" with one or two out of the group making it 3/4".

I am using Norma 6.5-284 and it may be part of the problem. Necked down brass has a .0155" neck wall thickness. I first noticed the problem when I went to pull some bullets and the RCBS collet puller kept slipping off the DTACs. Had to really crank down on the handle to hold the bullets in the collet. The chamber was set up for a .003" neck release so I decided to turn off a total of .001" off the necks. Nothing wrong with a .004" release. This was better but still too tight IMO. I took the K and M mandrel and opened up the necks so the difference of sized OD and loaded OD is a mere .0005 or 1/2 a thousandth. Seating feels better. It is STILL tight enough that I cannot do soft seating. The bullet won't move even with the bullet seated .030" into the rifling!! Now that is a tight neck!!! Going out tomorrow to try the RL-17 pet load again. Also will be trying some H4831. Who knows maybe the issue is not the powder but the bullet.....

I was surprised to see you are using a magnum primer. I am using the fed 210 match primers.

Can do you me a favor? If you have some unturned lapua brass can you tell me the neck wall thickness?

 

[bozo699]

Bozo,
Also will be trying some H4831. Who knows maybe the issue is not the powder but the bullet.....

I was surprised to see you are using a magnum primer. I am using the fed 210 match primers.

Can do you me a favor? If you have some unturned lapua brass can you tell me the neck wall thickness?

RossL,
My 6.5*284 shoots the H-4831 very well I don't know why I haven't tried it yet other than the guy I bought it from said RL-22 worked best in it, I think I will give the 4831 a try as well.

The reason I tried the magnum primers was three reasons,..
#1 Retumbo is a fine flake powder
#2 the Sierra manual suggested it and,..
#3 sometimes just changing a primer brand or from one extreme to another can make a big difference, in this case it did
not make any difference, maybe a few fps difference thats it. both primers I tried were Federal...210M and 215M

I don't have any unturned 6*284 brass, I do have a new box of 6.5*284 blue box unturned and hasn't been sized yet for anything, I can measure that if it will do you some good and get back with you later today on it.
Wayne.

 

[johnmyers]

Bozo,
Also will be trying some H4831. Who knows maybe the issue is not the powder but the bullet.....

I was surprised to see you are using a magnum primer. I am using the fed 210 match primers.

Can do you me a favor? If you have some unturned lapua brass can you tell me the neck wall thickness?

RossL,
My 6.5*284 shoots the H-4831 very well I don't know why I haven't tried it yet other than the guy I bought it from said RL-22 worked best in it, I think I will give the 4831 a try as well.

The reason I tried the magnum primers was three reasons,..
#1 Retumbo is a fine flake powder
#2 the Sierra manual suggested it and,..
#3 sometimes just changing a primer brand or from one extreme to another can make a big difference, in this case it did
not make any difference, maybe a few fps difference thats it.

I don't have any unturned 6*284 brass, I do have a new box of 6.5*284 blue box unturned and hasn't been sized yet for anything, I can measure that if it will do you some good and get back with you later today on it.
Wayne.

You might try some WLR primers in mine they shoot better than Fed 210m

 

[bozo699]

John,
I am headed down to the loading room as soon as I post this and will give the WLRs a try,..thank you.
Wayne.

 

[RossL]

Bozo...

What brass are you using? Did you see my question on the neck wall thickness? What is your brass's neck wall thickness before you did any turning?

I finally solved the group size issue. The neck tension with my norma brass was just too tight. I finally used the K and M mandrel for a difference of .0005" in sized necks vs loaded neck OD! It is hard to believe so little a difference can create what I'd call normal neck tension. I cannot soft seat the bullet. I set one up with it approx. 020" into the rifling and the bullet didn't budge! The long 115 DTAC bearing surface is in contact with the entire neck.

The groups shrank by almost 1/2. All three powders I tried shot pretty darn well. (retumbo, RL-17 and H4831)
RL-17 shot the best. 10 shot group under 1/4". Time to go to the other rifle range where we can shoot to 500M.

Keep the thread going Bozo and let us know what you end up with...isn't it fun and challenging to get a new chambering?

talk to ya

Ross