30BR with H322

[jimmymac]

I'm a newer 30BR shooter. I must say that so far this thing has been stupid easy to load for. It took me no time at all to develop a competitive load using H4198. Once that was taken care of, I figured it was time to play a little bit, so I did some digging on other powders. I remembered reading some stuff on another site where @RGRobinett talked about running H322 as a backup plan to H4198.

So, last Saturday I loaded up some H322 in my cases using the same seating depth I was already running with my H4198 loads and headed off for a brief test. These are the first 6 groups I shot. To say the least, I was stunned by the results. It was competitive right from the get go. It wanted to shoot small, but more importantly the load shot through the condition better than my trusty H4198 load. Basically, less hold off was required to achieve acceptable results.




Obviously, this isn't much testing, but also obvious is the fact that this load was working great on that particular day. It out shot my go to load. I'm enjoying playing with this caliber. I love shooting a PPC, but in the short time I've been shooting the 30BR it seems way less fussy keeping a tune.

 

[JMayo]

I'm having a 30cal built.
I've been waiting and watching for new 30br threads. I've read all I could find so far.
Seems it's either not much interest or "just plug and play" makes nothing to talk about.
Cool you're exploring !

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

H322 can shoot well, as you've seen. It's a bit slow, even moreso than h4198, which IMO is very, very good, but still a tad slow in that case. On the other end of the spectrum though, is n120. Recent lots seem slower than older lots were but still faster than h4198. Most of my experience was with the older lots but the powder is freakin excellent! Give it a try. I'd start at 31.0 with typical 110-118 br bullets and go from there. It's faster than 4198 so you can get too much but it'll be pretty full when you get there.

 

[jimmymac]

Thanks for the info Mike.

 

[RGRobinett]

When Accurate was developing Lt30, our hope was that it would have, at least, a bulk-density equal to H-322(Extreme) and a burn rate a little faster than H-4198 - somewhere between H-4227 and 4198 would have been excellent. Alas, with the initial Lt30 Lot, that was not the case : the stuff I received is about 1/2 Gr. lighter than H-4198 for equal bulk/volume, and, at equal weight works about like H-4198.

Based upon DATA which I saw, the BETA Lt32 was looking like the "magic powder" we were hoping for, with velocities approaching 3200 FPS, @ nice fill, and reasonable pressure. But what am I bitching about - if at differing pressure/velocity windows, several powders offer excellent precision. The sleeper aspect of H-322 (Extreme), though a trifle slow, is that, compared to most 'stick' powders, it is HEAVY: on my Jones measure, the volume which throws 34.8 Gr. of H-4198, equates to 37.2 Gr. of H-322(Extreme). RG

 

[jimmymac]

Thanks for chiming I’m on my thread. The 30BR threads don’t get much play with this site mostly drawing the long range crowd. Considered deleting this thread because it’s almost like talking to myself.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Thanks for chiming I’m on my thread. The 30BR threads don’t get much play with this site mostly drawing the long range crowd. Considered deleting this thread because it’s almost like talking to myself.

I'm not a 30 BR shooter (yet) but I truly enjoy threads like these and the evidence of the accuracy that you produced. - I believe it is more than worthy of the space here on the forum. - Please don't delete it !!. - I appreciate what you've shared.

Keep Up The Great Shooting !!

- Ron -

 

[shb]

When Accurate was developing Lt30, our hope was that it would have, at least, a bulk-density equal to H-322(Extreme) and a burn rate a little faster than H-4198 - somewhere between H-4227 and 4198 would have been excellent. Alas, with the initial Lt30 Lot, that was not the case : the stuff I received is about 1/2 Gr. lighter than H-4198 for equal bulk/volume, and, at equal weight works about like H-4198.

Based upon DATA which I saw, the BETA Lt32 was looking like the "magic powder" we were hoping for, with velocities approaching 3200 FPS, @ nice fill, and reasonable pressure. But what am I bitching about - if at differing pressure/velocity windows, several powders offer excellent precision. The sleeper aspect of H-322 (Extreme), though a trifle slow, is that, compared to most 'stick' powders, it is HEAVY: on my Jones measure, the volume which throws 34.8 Gr. of H-4198, equates to 37.2 Gr. of H-322(Extreme). RG

What does this mean in layman's terms?

 

[TrxR]

Jimmymac: what's your seating depth? And what bullets are you using?

Any idea what velocity your getting compared to 4198?

 

[X-Caveman]

Thanks for chiming I’m on my thread. The 30BR threads don’t get much play with this site mostly drawing the long range crowd. Considered deleting this thread because it’s almost like talking to myself.

I agree with LA50Shooter. Don't delete. Lots of guys shoot midrange & shortrange on this forum. 1K & ELR may have the sex appeal, but there's a helluva lot more places to shoot 100/200 - at least around these parts. I'm just starting to dabble with the 30BR, myself. I'm starting with 4198, but it's great to have dialogue in case I need to explore other options.

 

[RGRobinett]

What does this mean in layman's terms?

With the 30BR expansion ratio (small case capacity to bore volume), in combination with light weight bullets, H-4198 is on the verge of being too slow, in most barrels, requiring a somewhat compressed load to obtain top precision. With this powder, pressure rarely dictates the maximum load - we simply run out of capacity. The next step down in burn rate - N-120, H/IMR 4227, A-5744, can all produce top precision also, however, excessive pressure is easily obtained, with well less than a desirable case fill.

Compressed vs less than full - is another topic we could discuss until all the - as Al Nyhus calls it - BLACK JUICE was consumed, then, we'd all have to sober up and go over it again . . .

Back on track: compared to H-4198, H-322(Extreme), is yet slower burning, but denser - since one can get roughly 2+ more weight into the same space, it works almost as well a the H-4198, albeit at about 100 FPS less MV. Again, it works best with a somewhat compressed charge: many people, new to the 30 BR, do not like
the idea of even the slight compression required with these powders . . . well, until they try it! This has been the topic of many a phone call.

More simply put, a powder featuring the bulk density of H-322, with the 4198 burn rate would probably produce velocity well in excess of 3100 FPS, at the desirable 100% load density, and acceptable pressure (I was shown the BETA Lt30 DATA, and it did that!): imagine being able to get 2.4 Gr. more H-4198 into the BR case . . . that's what we would have! RG

 

[JMayo]

Well, I'm not sure what I know now
:/
I'm not shooting yet. It'll be Dec before parts (McMillan & Bartlein) get assembled. Maybe I'll have an idea by then.

 

[jimmymac]

Jimmymac: what's your seating depth? And what bullets are you using?

Any idea what velocity your getting compared to 4198?

I use the stripped bolt method of determining jam length. I sized my brass, seated long, recorded the CBTO dimension, chambered the dummy round and let the bolt do the final seating. I then recorded the CBTO dimension of the extracted round, which became my base line, or jam length. I know people do it differently, but to me this is jam.

I then tested at different seating depths and powder charges firing three shot groups as shown below. The only exception was the -.005 group where I shot 5 rounds.





Once I made it through that process, I loaded some more rounds at jam length and and -.005 and fired five shot groups. At that point it became obvious that the gun liked my 115 grain bullets pretty much right at jam. I played around with -.001, -.002 but each time I went back to jam the load just shined regardless if I was running 34.5 or 34.7 grains of powder. The following weekend I shot the gun at a group match as a HV gun. I ran 34.7 grains of H4198 with bullets seated at jam. I came in 2nd in the 200 yard portion. I also had small group.

The weekend after that, I ran the same load at the WV UBR state championship and finished first in the 100 yard portion.

Many experts will tell me that I'm wasting my time trying to run H322. I just don't see it. The first target I posted tells me there is potential there. I will not abandon H4198. That is not the goal. The goal is to keep getting better. Sometimes there is more in a gun than what we think. It's easy to get satisfied when your stuff is working. That's why I continue to test.

I have no idea what velocity any of my loads are producing. It just hasn't been important to me.

I'd like to thank everyone who is participating in this thread. I hope I've added a little bit to this forum.

 

[jimmymac]

To expound on what Randy said...In my case I ran 37.2 grains of H322 that produced the groups in the first photo. I loaded them up and used a Forster funnel with drop tube and the cases were filled to within less than 1/8" of the case mouth. I actually vibrated my loading block with an ultrasonic tooth brush after the cases were filled to get the powder to settle some. It helped, but just a bit. These were some pretty compressed charges. The powder resistance when seating forced me to remove .003" of shims from my seating die to achieve my desired CBTO. I was nervous the bullets would back out of the case, but they didn't.

I hesitate to list powder charges because every gun is different. None of the loads listed here caused any pressure signs in my gun, so I'm comfortable with what I'm doing. Anyone reading this should work up their own loads accordingly.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

That is some very good shooting on your part, and it is obvious that your rifle likes what your feeding it. And the information provided is valuable, especially to someone new to the 30BR.

I'd like to hear about your rifle as well, if you don't mind sharing that information.

- Ron -

 

[jimmymac]

Many experts are telling you that because it's been a been there done that for them. Do you think that most of us haven't been down that road that your on now? Yes H322 will work, so can RE-7, & the old AA2015BR. You can experiment all you want at home, but when it comes to competing, don't try to reinvent the wheel. There is a reason most people use H4198, it just plain works and works well. It's the best all around powder for a 30BR bar none.

I'm not going to debate this with you Jim. As we all know, H4198 is the gold standard. What I will say is that we all need to march to the beat of our own drummer. It's up to me and me alone whether I succeed or fail in my own endeavors.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

More power to ya, I just don't like wasting my time traveling hundreds of miles spending hundred's of dollars to compete with stuff that is marginal at best.

@JimPag;

I find your posts annoying and you as a forum member annoying. - IMO you took a very good thread and have "tarnished it" with your spin on "how things HAVE to be".

I am Not a 30BR expert, but I know condescending posting when I see it. - It's not so much that you believe H-4198 is the best & only powder for the cartridge, but how you communicate when you present.

I fully expect that you'll present a barrage of backlash for what I've said.

Try a little couth, tolerance & humility. And get off your high-horse.

- Ron -

 

[JMayo]

I see & like to take advantage of the "learning curve".

I also see & like playing around with my toys (not ment in derogatory way)

Both sides are lending guys like me info in which to make decisions.

Thank you all !
Johnny

 

[JimPag]

@JimPag;

I find your posts annoying and you as a forum member annoying. - IMO you took a very good thread and have "tarnished it" with your spin on "how things HAVE to be".

I am Not a 30BR expert, but I know condescending posting when I see it. - It's not so much that you believe H-4198 is the best & only powder for the cartridge, but how you communicate when you present.

I fully expect that you'll present a barrage of backlash for what I've said.

Try a little couth, tolerance & humility. And get off your high-horse.

- Ron -[/Q

Your right. I shouldn't of rained on Jimmymac's thread with my opinions and I'm sorry to you, Jimmy and the rest of you guy's out there. I should of kept my big mouth shut.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

H4198 is about 1000% more proven than anything else in a 30br. Even that doesn't mean it's the best in a given rifle. Yes, it's extremely good but I still like to...and like to see others, test different things in their guns.
Several years ago, a guy we shot with brought his previous loaded h322 30br ammo to a cool match...preheated, in a cooler. He swore by it and shot well.
I tend to believe, if there's an edge to be found, it'll be on the faster side of 4198 but....isn't it cool how these small 30s are so forgiving? They scream..that they want to shoot, with several powders.