.30-06 to .25-06 Brass

[B. Anderson]

Hello, I am a brand new member and this is my first post. I welcome questions or constructive criticism on anything I say or ask. I apologize for the rehash on this subject, but I still have questions. I want to convert brand new Lapua .30-06 brass to .25-06. I have read a lot about it on this forum, and while some seem to have success in doing it in one step, I think my best bet would be to go from .30-06 to .270 and then to .25-06. I know this will make it necessary to turn the necks, and perhaps trim, but I have no issue with that as I am already set up.

Questions:

1. What sort of die should I use for the intermediate step to .270? Will any old full length re-sizing die with the guts removed work, or do I need to spring for something more fancy? (The final sizing will be done in Redding Full length bushing die, and I might need some more bushings - I currently use a .281)

2. If I understand correctly, new Lapua brass is already annealed, but will that be sufficient for the complete conversion and first firing?

3. I could write what I know about annealing on my pinky thumbnail, but I am wondering if I need to get into it or not. I have a new barrel with a semi tight chamber - .285, and currently, my turned and loaded cases are .283. Headspace is set to .002 or less. All that said, the finished brass doesn't move much when firing or resizing. But, I do want long case life and the best accuracy I can get. So, should I take the plunge into annealing? If so, any advice on an annealing unit would be appreciated.

I have seen folks wanting to do this, and a lot of times the question comes up as to why they want to do it. Well - times being what they are, .25-06 brass is not easy to come by. Secondly, I have my heart set on Lapua, and they don't make it. The brass I was using was Federal, but after just a few firings, the primer pockets are loose. I don't see any pressure signs, I am currently running a mild load, and I'm about .005 out of the lands.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice,
Brian Anderson

 

[Bob3700]

Hello, I am a brand new member and this is my first post. I welcome questions or constructive criticism on anything I say or ask. I apologize for the rehash on this subject, but I still have questions. I want to convert brand new Lapua .30-06 brass to .25-06. I have read a lot about it on this forum, and while some seem to have success in doing it in one step, I think my best bet would be to go from .30-06 to .270 and then to .25-06. I know this will make it necessary to turn the necks, and perhaps trim, but I have no issue with that as I am already set up.

Questions:

1. What sort of die should I use for the intermediate step to .270? Will any old full length re-sizing die with the guts removed work, or do I need to spring for something more fancy? (The final sizing will be done in Redding Full length bushing die, and I might need some more bushings - I currently use a .281)

2. If I understand correctly, new Lapua brass is already annealed, but will that be sufficient for the complete conversion and first firing?

3. I could write what I know about annealing on my pinky thumbnail, but I am wondering if I need to get into it or not. I have a new barrel with a semi tight chamber - .285, and currently, my turned and loaded cases are .283. Headspace is set to .002 or less. All that said, the finished brass doesn't move much when firing or resizing. But, I do want long case life and the best accuracy I can get. So, should I take the plunge into annealing? If so, any advice on an annealing unit would be appreciated.

I have seen folks wanting to do this, and a lot of times the question comes up as to why they want to do it. Well - times being what they are, .25-06 brass is not easy to come by. Secondly, I have my heart set on Lapua, and they don't make it. The brass I was using was Federal, but after just a few firings, the primer pockets are loose. I don't see any pressure signs, I am currently running a mild load, and I'm about .005 out of the lands.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice,
Brian Anderson

Brian,

First of all , welcome to the forum. There is quite a bit of knowledge here and folks are happy to share it with you.
1. Not all that familiar with making 25-06 brass but would think either a 280 Rem or a 270 Win FL sizing die would do the trick. If you have a 25-06 FL bushing die, you could just change the bushings to take the neck dimension down in steps. You might want to consider reaming the necks after the neck down step as the brass may be getting a little thick. I would inside neck ream as that would be easiest.
2. Lapua brass is annealed so should not be a problem.
3. I usually anneal my brass after 4 firings or so.
4. If primer pockets are opening up after a few firings, I think you have two possible issues. The brass is older than you think and there are more firings on them. Second, the loads you are using are higher pressure than you think. Primer pockets don't open up for no reason, but you could have some soft brass ( what is the vintage of your Federal brass.

I know that others will chime in with suggestions but the above are mine. Best of luck and let us know how your brass project turns out.

Bob

 

[Lone Hunter]

Here is some info on turning 30/06 to 25/06. Do a search and it will turn up some info. I firmly believe in the annealing especially after working the brass. Look down at the bottom of the page and a lot of times it will help you with similar threads. I don’t use my 25/06 much anymore and just use commercial brass so I can’t help you out . Good Luck with your forming.

25-06 Brass from 30-06

So, I usually use Rem 25-06 brass for my rifle. The current batch of 60 or so has been through the ringer and I am losing more and more each round to over working. I would like to start a new batch but can't find Rem brass for that to save myself. I do have a large amount of once fired 30-06...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[338 dude]

Hello, I am a brand new member and this is my first post. I welcome questions or constructive criticism on anything I say or ask. I apologize for the rehash on this subject, but I still have questions. I want to convert brand new Lapua .30-06 brass to .25-06. I have read a lot about it on this forum, and while some seem to have success in doing it in one step, I think my best bet would be to go from .30-06 to .270 and then to .25-06. I know this will make it necessary to turn the necks, and perhaps trim, but I have no issue with that as I am already set up.

Questions:

1. What sort of die should I use for the intermediate step to .270? Will any old full length re-sizing die with the guts removed work, or do I need to spring for something more fancy? (The final sizing will be done in Redding Full length bushing die, and I might need some more bushings - I currently use a .281)

2. If I understand correctly, new Lapua brass is already annealed, but will that be sufficient for the complete conversion and first firing?

3. I could write what I know about annealing on my pinky thumbnail, but I am wondering if I need to get into it or not. I have a new barrel with a semi tight chamber - .285, and currently, my turned and loaded cases are .283. Headspace is set to .002 or less. All that said, the finished brass doesn't move much when firing or resizing. But, I do want long case life and the best accuracy I can get. So, should I take the plunge into annealing? If so, any advice on an annealing unit would be appreciated.

I have seen folks wanting to do this, and a lot of times the question comes up as to why they want to do it. Well - times being what they are, .25-06 brass is not easy to come by. Secondly, I have my heart set on Lapua, and they don't make it. The brass I was using was Federal, but after just a few firings, the primer pockets are loose. I don't see any pressure signs, I am currently running a mild load, and I'm about .005 out of the lands.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice,
Brian Anderson

Hi Brian,welcome to the forum from Tennessee. You should be able to accomplish your goals with just a few different bushings and the die set you have also annealing would be a good idea

 

[riflewoman]

Use a 270 die rather than a 280. The 280 has a different headspace and shoulder position. While it won’t make a substantial difference, it’s just one less area to get wrong. It is very likely that you will get thicker necks and at least some neck turning will be advisable.

 

[lb-ft]

Welcome! This is the very best place on earth to learn the finer points of our sport.

I’ve done a fair amount of case reforming. Advice I would give in order :
1- Royal spray case lube is your friend. You’ll figure out how much is too much. No worries, the shoulder wrinkles will iron out at first firing
2- Go to .270, then .25-06
3-Anneal

 

[KMart]

Hello, I am a brand new member and this is my first post. I welcome questions or constructive criticism on anything I say or ask. I apologize for the rehash on this subject, but I still have questions. I want to convert brand new Lapua .30-06 brass to .25-06. I have read a lot about it on this forum, and while some seem to have success in doing it in one step, I think my best bet would be to go from .30-06 to .270 and then to .25-06. I know this will make it necessary to turn the necks, and perhaps trim, but I have no issue with that as I am already set up.


2. If I understand correctly, new Lapua brass is already annealed, but will that be sufficient for the complete conversion and first firing?

That pretty blue annealing on the Lapua brass is oxidation left on the case from the final annealing step. When you get the new Lapua brass, the first thing you need to do is put it all in a vibratory tumbler for about 4 hours with walnut media, to get the oxidation off. The oxidation is on the outside and inside the necks.
Failing to get the oxidation off usually causes scratches on the outside of the necks and a fouled sizing die. If you use a mandrel for expanding the necks, you will most likely have fouling on the mandrel from the oxidation.

Also, it is best to use a F/L sizing die to size the necks down. On a F/L Bushing die, the bushing will not always size down the entire length of the neck and cause hard to chamber cases.

 

[jepp2]

I did exactly what you want to do. Use Lapua brass in my 25-06.

The steps I took were:
- size in a FL 30-06 die with the expander removed
- size in a FL 280 die, didn't bump the shoulder, no need to
- size in a FL 270 die
- size in a FL 25-06 die
Expanded the case neck for neck turning
Turned the case necks

I played with using bushings, but I didn't have them in the correct diameters. The opening in the bushing doesn't have much of a radius, so you are limited how much oversize a diameter it will accept. My experience is the smaller steps you take the move consistent the neck thickness remains. YMMV

The first 50 I did I neck turned them as 30-06 brass. The neck shoulder junction now is part of the shoulder and it looks unusual. So the second 50 I turned the neck after I completed sizing them down.

Here is what they looked like. None were lost and no shoulder wrinkles.

 

[Bill Norris]

If you lube the cases properly you can re-size from 30-06 to 25-06 in one step without loss of brass. I did it with Redding F/L bushing die with no issues at all. I did turn the necks after re-sizing due to neck wall thickness increase but it does not require removing alot. Work carefully measuring often to get where it needs to be.

 

[358WCF]

I made some Lapua 30-06 into 25-06 with one pass into a Redding FL 25-06 die. Make sure the .308" neck is round 1st & then deburr inside & out thoroughly. Lube the neck in & out. I used Imperial. While not necessary, a long tapered expanding mandrel rather than the expander ball might reduce the effort in this case.

After fireforming a bullet slid into the case mouth with a little bit of snugness. Neck thickness was c. .0165-.0167" per side. It was marginally OK for my factory chamber, but I skim turned to .015" thickness for a little more clearance.

My lot (pre gold box) of Lapua '06 has considerably less internal capacity than the WW brass I was using. A full 10% load reduction was necessary before working upward just a little bit. I got lazy & 5% less locked the bolt. YMMV.

 

[Murray Brook]

I have formed 25/06 brass just as Bill and 358 have done. One pass with good lube, but necks should be checked for thickness after forming. Then I did a fire form for the last step. JME

 

[B. Anderson]

Wow! Thanks so much to all of you for your kind welcomes and all the advice. I really feel like I have found a great place to learn, and hopefully someday, I will be able to contribute. As I expected, many of you have had successful results with varying techniques. I guess what worries me most now is offending someone by trying someone else's method..... Please know that is not the "case" pun indented - and that I appreciate each and everyone of you who have taken the time to chime in.

I have read each and every one of the replies and I have learned a lot. The last thing I ever thought is that it would be necessary is to tumble new Lapua brass. I would not have thought about case capacity either....

I did do something tonight that I should be whipped for not doing before..... I compared the case dimensions of the .25-06 and the .30-06 and I was amazed at how similar they are! I always knew a .25-06 was a necked down .30-.06, but I never dreamed the cases were identical from the base to the shoulder junction. (Sometimes I can take the simplest things and turn them into a space shuttle launch...)

Bob3700: You could very well be right about me having too much pressure on my current load, but again (a novice) I don't see any pressure signs. You asked about the vintage of the brass - it started out as factory brass on several boxes of Federal Premium Ammo. I noticed that when they were new, they had a red ring around the primer - some sort of sealant or adhesive I suppose. I noticed the 1st time I loaded them that the primers didn't fit as tight. I also read somewhere (can't find it now), that that particular brass was never intended to be reloaded - I dunno...

Jepp2: It is good to know that someone has done this with good success, and I appreciate all the detail and the pictures.

What I failed to mention earlier is that in addition to my Redding Bushing die, I also have a plain old RCBS full length die in .25-06. Since so many of you have had success in doing this in one step, I intend to "try what I got". I'm going to lube a case up good and run it through that die and see what happens. Worst case - I ruin a case and have to buy some more dies. Once I do that, I will take some measurements and see where I am at.

I don't want anyone here to worry - I know I have demonstrated that I have much to learn, but I do have good measurement tools and I would never just hope something was safe and test it by firing to see if the bolt lands on my face...

Again - thank you all. I have plenty of options here to try and I will figure it out. I will let you know how it goes.

Brian Anderson

 

[KMart]

I guess what worries me most now is offending someone by trying someone else's method.....

Don't worry about offending someone here by using their methods. There are a few Snowflakes here but not many. Most of us have really thick skins. Besides, if we wanted to keep something secret, the last place we would put it would be the internet.
A lot of us learned reloading the hard way before the internet, by trial and error and screwing things up. It is not necessary to repeat our failures.
Welcome to the forum
KMartin

 

[jobhopper66]

The last sentence in Kmart's post is really spot on in my opinion. While some feel the need to be trailblazers when doing things many times it just makes more sense to ask for help and advice. This will almost always shorten the learning curve and save you money too. I had no internet available to me when I started forming cases and alot of brass ended up the scrap bucket because of it. Other people's failures can be your shortcut to success.

 

[338 dude]

Wow! Thanks so much to all of you for your kind welcomes and all the advice. I really feel like I have found a great place to learn, and hopefully someday, I will be able to contribute. As I expected, many of you have had successful results with varying techniques. I guess what worries me most now is offending someone by trying someone else's method..... Please know that is not the "case" pun indented - and that I appreciate each and everyone of you who have taken the time to chime in.

I have read each and every one of the replies and I have learned a lot. The last thing I ever thought is that it would be necessary is to tumble new Lapua brass. I would not have thought about case capacity either....

I did do something tonight that I should be whipped for not doing before..... I compared the case dimensions of the .25-06 and the .30-06 and I was amazed at how similar they are! I always knew a .25-06 was a necked down .30-.06, but I never dreamed the cases were identical from the base to the shoulder junction. (Sometimes I can take the simplest things and turn them into a space shuttle launch...)

Bob3700: You could very well be right about me having too much pressure on my current load, but again (a novice) I don't see any pressure signs. You asked about the vintage of the brass - it started out as factory brass on several boxes of Federal Premium Ammo. I noticed that when they were new, they had a red ring around the primer - some sort of sealant or adhesive I suppose. I noticed the 1st time I loaded them that the primers didn't fit as tight. I also read somewhere (can't find it now), that that particular brass was never intended to be reloaded - I dunno...

Jepp2: It is good to know that someone has done this with good success, and I appreciate all the detail and the pictures.

What I failed to mention earlier is that in addition to my Redding Bushing die, I also have a plain old RCBS full length die in .25-06. Since so many of you have had success in doing this in one step, I intend to "try what I got". I'm going to lube a case up good and run it through that die and see what happens. Worst case - I ruin a case and have to buy some more dies. Once I do that, I will take some measurements and see where I am at.

I don't want anyone here to worry - I know I have demonstrated that I have much to learn, but I do have good measurement tools and I would never just hope something was safe and test it by firing to see if the bolt lands on my face...

Again - thank you all. I have plenty of options here to try and I will figure it out. I will let you know how it goes.

Brian Anderson

First off welcome to the forum Bryan from Tennessee ,although you may be just starting out you sound like you have a pretty good handle on what you need to do .I like how you let everyone know you read every response you do not want to offend someone by not using their methods, that is very respectful but not necessary here.you will get 1000 opinions on what to do no one should be offended we give advice all the time sometimes it is taken sometimes it is not. again welcome to the forum you sound like you’re on the right track

 

[DGP4]

Just out of my personal curiosity, but why not start with .270 WIN brass?

 

[AckleymanII]

it helps if the case mouth is round to begin with, Neck size with no expander ball in the die. Then put a very, very heavy chamfer on the outside of the case mouth as an aid to going in the smaller sizer.

Necks grow in length, not uniform from side to side.

Expect doughnuts quickly, a K&M carbide mandrel with the cutter on the end will remove the doughnuts quickly and easily. Your throat maybe long enough to where you do not have to worry about doughnuts where the base of the bullet is above the Shoulder/Neck junction.

 

[pipe]

I'm a new guy here, but have been reloading for about 50 years, so i'm kind of old school. I have had problems with Federal brass in several projects being soft. I quit using it for that reason. I had a 25-06 project about 10 years ago. I used Remington once fired 30-06, annealed neck, sized neck in 280 Rem die, then FL sized in 25-06 die. This worked very good. I didn't turn the necks, but after firing i determined that i needed to turn a little off to give a little clearance. The 25-06 is one of the good old ones. Good luck.

 

[338 dude]

Just out of my personal curiosity, but why not start with .270 WIN brass?

Probably due to it not being available or he already has brass on hand

 

[KMart]

Probably due to it not being available or he already has brass on hand

That and having to trim off about .050" on the length.