30 06 AI question

[msinc]

I am still trying to figure out exactly what all this reported "extra work" and "extra steps to load" is.......I don't see fireforming as anything extra. You shoot standard 30-06 ammo, which is no slouch in it's own right, to form cases. As to extra steps to load???? resize, prime, charge and seat??? The AI deletes the need to trim, so that is one less. Biggest difference between the 300 WM and 06AI is recoil. The 06AI wins that one hands down...unless you like punishment.

Edit: one thing I would not do, and I think this might be where some folks are not seeing the same advantage, is take a factory barrel {just about all are 22"} and set it back to make it an Ackley Improved. It can and is done all the time, but I wouldn't bother. My "practical" hunting length barrels are all 26" or better.

 

[miningshawn]

I currently own 3 30-06's.

I am a big fan of Ackley cartridge design.

One of these, if not two, will soon be a 30-06AI.

The question is "Why bother?". Here are my reasons:
- No more case trimming, pretty much ever.
- When I order the reamer I can set the CBTO of the bullet I desire to take full advantage of the case volume.
- I never shoot factory ammunition, but it is very nice to have the capability.
- It looks good and I like it.
- Slightly higher pressure capability and longer case life due to the straight wall design.
- Less bolt face thrust due to the straight Wall design.
- Easier and more repeatable shoulder sizing (headspace) due to the shoulder angle.
- Arguably a slightly to moderately longer throat life.
So there are the positives. The downside? Fire-forming and that is about it.

Do you want a unique rifle that is a dream to handload for, or another me-too rifle? All it costs is a reamer and a little fire-forming investment.

FWIW I have never had an Ackleyed rifle shoot worse than the original, and I have been able to reach one node higher on many occasions. My vote is to go for it.

 

[jr600yd]

What about spending $300+ for a barrel and $300+ for the smith to chamber it up?

 

[JLDavid]

If that is an issue, why would you shoot anything but factory production rifles and factory off the shelf ammo?

 

[msinc]

What about spending $300+ for a barrel and $300+ for the smith to chamber it up?

Yeah, I probably wouldn't do all this if I know could get a factory rifle that will shoot bullets touching each other at 100 yards, but I haven't seen that in quite a while. Unless you are willing to accept "minute of deer" {which is fine for some folks} the above figures are in order if you want/need a custom barrel. My biggest peave with factory rifles is all they make is carbines...22" barrels seem to be the norm unless you buy a Weatherby magnum.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

What about spending $300+ for a barrel and $300+ for the smith to chamber it up?

LMAOROTF !!

 

[greisdor]

Well all the info is great - I will only add I have a 308 bolt face action - not a mag bolt face. I would not buy a mag action to achieve so little with a wsm or WM. Just saying.....

 

[JLDavid]

That makes the decision pretty simple then. As David Milisock said, loading to modern pressure levels is key to the sucess of the conversion as well. Proceed with caution towards pressure and stop when it is appropriate and the gains will be apperant. Have been for me anyway.

 

[JimT]

Well all the info is great - I will only add I have a 308 bolt face action - not a mag bolt face. I would not buy a mag action to achieve so little with a wsm or WM. Just saying.....

In that case you should look at the .30 Gibbs too. Short necks appear to be popular.

 

[Mulligan]

As you can see in the attached Nosler load data, the AI version has some potential. If you like zippy, try some RL-16, you will not be disappointed.
CW

 

[miningshawn]

As you can see in the attached Nosler load data, the AI version has some potential. If you like zippy, try some RL-16, you will not be disappointed.
CW

Just don't tell them about 4831SC under a Juggernaut or Classic Hunter...

 

[Nomosendero]

All I can say is the .30/06 ai made Mr. Ackley’s recommended list the .25/06 ai did not. Your observations regarding the .30/06 ai don’t match up with Ackley’s, mine or most others on this thread. Ackley reported he got 3077 FPS with a 180 grain bullet out of a 26 inch barrel in a .30/06 ai, I believe him.

Believe away, did not work in mine, your mileage may vary.
About the 25-06, I use powders that were not available in Mr. Ackley's day, and those powders helped some "overbore" rounds more than others, so you are measuring with a rubber ruler, not relevant for today.

 

[greisdor]

Think I will try it - 3006 AI maybe with the sholder pushed forward just a tad with free bore for the 200.20X bullet.

 

[JimT]

Believe away, did not work in mine, your mileage may vary.
About the 25-06, I use powders that were not available in Mr. Ackley's day, and those powders helped some "overbore" rounds more than others, so you are measuring with a rubber ruler, not relevant for today.

So how fast are you pushing a 120 grain bullet in your 26 inch barrel? With what powder?

 

[Nomosendero]

3325 with RL25 a whisker faster with RL26.
26" Sendero, chambered by Allen Precision Rifles in MT.

It is good you did well with the 30-06AI, I wish my results were better.

 

[David Milisock]

Well all the info is great - I will only add I have a 308 bolt face action - not a mag bolt face. I would not buy a mag action to achieve so little with a wsm or WM. Just saying.....

Having a standard bolt face can be worked around. Just don't believe all you read about 300 mag performance.

Data on the 308 Norma is published with very low pressures, if memory serves 55,000 PSI. The case is based on the 63,000 PSI 358 Norma Magnum case. In my opinion there's no reason not to load the 308 Norma to 63,000 PSI.

I have a 358 Norma, years ago I was invited to a population management hunt by a client. Published 250 grain velocity is listed at 2,900 FPS. A 400 yard broadside shot on an elk passed straight through, he trotted about a dozen steps and dropped. A few days later another shot, the elk turned just as I fired, bullet hit dead on the left shoulder, passed through and exited the right hind quarter. The shot was 605 yards, the 250 grain Hornady SP left the bore at 3,200 FPS, the barrel is 28" heavy. The rifle was built by Harry McGowen.

A 200 grain Hornady ELDX leaving the bore of a 308 Norma at 3,000 FPS is not an unforeseeable possibility. Just food for thought, if you're bumping up over an 06 and a custom rifle and cartridge does not scare you for similar money you may want to consider something else.

 

[rockrat]

I like my '06AI. Wanted just a bit more than a standard "06 but didn't have a magnum action to use, so just borrowed a reamer and took a 30" old 308 F class barrel sitting on the shelf and rechambered it. Bought a set of Redding dies for $40 and had some Lapua 35 Whelen AI brass I had bought on this site and could re-form and was good to go. If I didn't like it, I was only out the cost of the dies and a bit of time.

 

[greisdor]

Having a standard bolt face can be worked around. Just don't believe all you read about 300 mag performance.

Data on the 308 Norma is published with very low pressures, if memory serves 55,000 PSI. The case is based on the 63,000 PSI 358 Norma Magnum case. In my opinion there's no reason not to load the 308 Norma to 63,000 PSI.

I have a 358 Norma, years ago I was invited to a population management hunt by a client. Published 250 grain velocity is listed at 2,900 FPS. A 400 yard broadside shot on an elk passed straight through, he trotted about a dozen steps and dropped. A few days later another shot, the elk turned just as I fired, bullet hit dead on the left shoulder, passed through and exited the right hind quarter. The shot was 605 yards, the 250 grain Hornady SP left the bore at 3,200 FPS, the barrel is 28" heavy. The rifle was built by Harry McGowen.

A 200 grain Hornady ELDX leaving the bore of a 308 Norma at 3,000 FPS is not an unforeseeable possibility. Just food for thought, if you're bumping up over an 06 and a custom rifle and cartridge does not scare you for similar money you may want to consider something else.

David, yes I know about all the 300 mags, warbird, rem ultra mag, norma,winchester, and set a nbrsa 1K record with a case that I designed For 300gn 338’s,

But I am not looking for hunting or being kicked into tomarrow with one shot. I enjoy getting a small group with 10 shots in a match. The 200.20x will hold the 1k target in variable wind conditions And wont kick the crap out of me.

 

[358WCF]

Think I will try it - 3006 AI maybe with the sholder pushed forward just a tad with free bore for the 200.20X bullet.

This wont give you much, if any, more usable capacity than an Ackley but you will lose the ability to shoot factory ammo if that should be a concern. It's easier to just fireform factory brass than do the necking up then down with 2ndary shoulder machinations. I have a 22-250 Ackley with c. .030" too long headspace & it's just a bit extra work. Also in my experience lighter bullets show more "improvement" if you're after velocity which is why I concentrated on 150 to 180s. Whatever you decide, have at it & enjoy.

 

[David Milisock]

David, yes I know about all the 300 mags, warbird, rem ultra mag, norma,winchester, and set a nbrsa 1K record with a case that I designed For 300gn 338’s,

But I am not looking for hunting or being kicked into tomarrow with one shot. I enjoy getting a small group with 10 shots in a match. The 200.20x will hold the 1k target in variable wind conditions And wont kick the crap out of me.

The incremental increase in recoil is why I recommended the 308 Norma Mag, NOT the newer 300 Norma Magnum.
If you're looking at a 30 06 AI it's not that much of a move to the 308 Norma, it's not a large overbore 30 magnum Like the 300. It's one of the original shorter fat cases, it fits in a standard 30 06 length action. Also in my experiance the 308 Norma is about a small a case you can use to get 3k FPS with 200 grain ELD bullettes. If you not carrying it in the field a little weight goes a long way. A no taper barrel and a heavy recoil reducer pad helped with my 358.