30 06 AI question
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LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
Socialism seems to be popular right now (with some), BUT that doesn't mean it right or the best way.
Now, back to the 30-06 Ackley Improved !!!
Which is the most popular magnum cartridge sold today?
Last I heard the 300WM
Last I heard the 300WM
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
But this thread isn’t about that topic so you are out of bounds.
Im not here to debate the legitimacy of the 300 WM, it never had a place being mentioned here in the thread. - And the continued effort to “troll” this Distraction further delegitimizes those who have the need too, contrary to the OP’s titled question.
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I keep going back to a 30x280AI shooting 180s as my cross canyon rifle for elk. I have a 280AI reamer and a PTG 30 caliber neck/throat reamer with a .338" neck and .095" freebore. When I was talking with them about the specs I was told the Serengeti (.3085" throat diameter and at least .085" freebore, depending on bullet weight) is the way to go for a 30-06. I might have to get a blank chucked up and try this out. If I can push a 180 to around 3000fps accurately out to 800, might be pretty good elk medicine.
If I may ask sir, what "extra loading steps" are you referring to???? Thanks.
I like my 30-06 Ackley. An otherwise stock 73- series Ruger 77 it has a 26" Douglas sporter weight barrel which will shoot 3/4 to 1" 4-shot groups at 100 yds. regularly with hunting bullets from 150 to 180gr. A higher power scope might shrink groups some. I get sub 1/2" quite often. There's a 2-7x on it now.
I have been known to push my Ackleys a bit. They seem happiest at just below top speeds. Over 3300fps with 150s, around 3150 to 3200 with 165s, around 3100 with 180s, this is factory loaded 300 WinMag territory. Bolt lifts easily, primer pockets remain tight. I got the rifle in trade about 35 years ago & am still using some of the brass that came with it. The 4350s & RL19 are what it likes best, but just started trying some newer powders & RL17 works well with 150s & 165. With 180s. RL26 pressured out at 67 gr.=3143fps, but shot better 1/2 gr lower @3109fps. WW cases with WLR on all loads. All velocities instrumental @ 10' from muzzle.
I have been known to push my Ackleys a bit. They seem happiest at just below top speeds. Over 3300fps with 150s, around 3150 to 3200 with 165s, around 3100 with 180s, this is factory loaded 300 WinMag territory. Bolt lifts easily, primer pockets remain tight. I got the rifle in trade about 35 years ago & am still using some of the brass that came with it. The 4350s & RL19 are what it likes best, but just started trying some newer powders & RL17 works well with 150s & 165. With 180s. RL26 pressured out at 67 gr.=3143fps, but shot better 1/2 gr lower @3109fps. WW cases with WLR on all loads. All velocities instrumental @ 10' from muzzle.
Yep, I never really regarded that as "extra" though because I was just shooting a straight 06 to fire form. I was wondering if he meant sizing the formed cases and setting the headspace dead on....that is a little different. I know most guys just set the die and go and that works fine, but I wanted to know mine were dead zero to what I wanted headspace wise.
Or otherwise if there is something else I am not doing......
I don't have a dog in this fight.... but... the OP just wants to know if it's worth it... well... I can understand that some posters are simply saying... YES, it was in the old days before the 300 WM came out... but not now sense the WM is here. Isn't it a very fine line to what the 30/06 AI will do before your into the basic loads of a 300 WM?
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KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
YES. It’s worth doing. Frankly there is not much that can be improved on the 06, but it turns an excellent long action cartridge into as close to perfect as you can get.
My favorite aspects are better precision and case stability than the parent cartridge. I don’t complain about the modest boost in velocity either.
Go for it.
My favorite aspects are better precision and case stability than the parent cartridge. I don’t complain about the modest boost in velocity either.
Go for it.
It’s widely accepted that a .30/06 Improved will equal/or exceed factory .300 Win Mag velocities. As I pointed out above Ackley handloaded both and the .300 came out on top by 138 FPS. To do this the .300 needed almost 20% more of the same powder. In my opinion we are talking about efficiency when comparing the two.
If you ever have a chance to peruse Ackley’s books you will see what he meant in my post above, there are far superior .30 caliber Magnum case designs that are also more efficient.
I would venture to guess that we’ll over 95% of all .300 Win Mags ever in existence were fed factory ammo. As such, it provides a welcome increase in velocity over a standard .30/06. If you are a hand loader the choice is not as clear cut.
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Only replied to another post, I normally don't do that, I messed up but such drama!!
Sorry to get your little panties in a wad.
Back to the subject then!! I have a 30-06 AI based on a Mod. 70 FW, small gain.
Is it worth it, NOPE!! How is that for a short answer.
Case forming alone is not worth the bother for a small gain. For me at least if I wanted a small gain I would run with the long action Rem 700 or comparable length action, have it throated for seating the heavies Looong & get a small gain, maybe not quite AI but close since the gain is small. Then, no fire forming. I saw a great article on that years ago.
I am not against the AI concept, it just works better with some cartridges than others, the 250SavAI does the best I have heard of. I have a Sendero 25-06AI that responded quite well. Better yet, I had a Contender Super 14 30-30 , the gain for it was great, 200fps or so. That will not happen with the 30-06AI with any practical hunting barrel length.
My comments were never meant to compare the performance of the 30/06 - 30/06AI against the 300WM. That horse has been beaten to death. Fact is the WM is a factory loaded round and the AI is a wildcat. You can walk into just about any Gun store and buy 300WM ammo. (Well, you use to) How many factory WM’s have been sold VS rifles re-barreled to 30/06AI? Both are fine cartridges and more than capable of taking any North American game. So, what it comes down to is are you willing to make the 30/06AI or just choose a different caliber?
All I can say is the .30/06 ai made Mr. Ackley’s recommended list the .25/06 ai did not. Your observations regarding the .30/06 ai don’t match up with Ackley’s, mine or most others on this thread. Ackley reported he got 3077 FPS with a 180 grain bullet out of a 26 inch barrel in a .30/06 ai, I believe him.
It depends on what you like and want. The extra work that a 30 06 AI causes may pay dividends of consistency and satisfaction of doing the work.
If you're looking for a mathematical absolute there may not be one. If you have or are a decent smith, have a quality long enough tube, cut a good chamber, work your brass and load well and push that 65,000 PSI modern limit. You're going to have a good time!
Enjoy!
If you're looking for a mathematical absolute there may not be one. If you have or are a decent smith, have a quality long enough tube, cut a good chamber, work your brass and load well and push that 65,000 PSI modern limit. You're going to have a good time!
Enjoy!
A public service announcement... If anybody goes this route, make sure whoever does the Ackley chamber understands that a standard chamber will not clean up properly unless the barrel is set back. If the reamer is run in until the old chamber is cleaned up, there will be excess headspace when firing factory ammo. The '06 go gauge becomes the no go gauge & a shorter (.004" ?) go gauge will be needed. I forget where this pic came from but it's worth 1000 words.
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