30 06 AI question

[greisdor]

It it worth doing ? Anyone one have one ?

Thanks JR

 

[3Sigma]

No, but I asked this same question as I am looking to rebarrel my 30-06 this winter.

My view is that the gains are not insubstantial, but the bigger gain is by using a reamer that allows to seat heavy bullets further out. It doesn't seem to justify the work required relative to 22-250 and 280 remington. Just my take.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I did the one I have with 30” Three groove match grade 1-11” twist barrels and I believe that I’m gaining approx. 3% in case capacity, so not as much as some of the other Ackley Improved cartridges. I had the reamer spec’d for Berger 200.20x bullets so it and all the 185 gr Berger’s fit without any trouble above the neck/shoulder junction. Using Lapua brass this build turned out excellent. I believe that up to 65,000 psi loads are realistic without any problems as well.
So, to me it all boils down to what you want your rifle to be at the end of the day.

Regards,

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

H-4350 and Alliant Reloder 16 were 2 powders that I’ve tried with very good results, I’m sure that other medium burn rate powders could be used.

 

[Rem06]

It it worth doing ? Anyone one have one ?

Thanks JR

I had my 30-06 rebarreled to AI and felt i gained very little with heavier bullets,

worth it,

I did NOT think so.

if you feel you need more just get a 300WM

 

[oldroper]

I necked up 280AI case to 30 cal and use Rem action so could seat bullets out. Barrel was 26" Lilja, 1/11 twist and plus was no fire forming just neck up. At the time I wanted to use 165gr up to 180gr and was just hunting rifle.

It's kind of like one of my 280AI has 27" Lilja barrel and it's not somethings I wouldn't want to shoot Berger 7mm 195 grain hunting bullet..

I hunted with it for about 5yrs and had rebarreled back to 30-06 using Shilen 25.6", 1/13 ratchet twist barrel and it's long throated.

I like AI and shooting 35 WhelenAI,243AI and 222AI.

 

[jr600yd]

Depends on what you consider better? Ackly “improved” just about everything that was around then. He believed an ”improved” cartridge should gain between 5 - 10% over the parent cartridge. Well, the improved 30/06 didn’t live up to this standard. By the way it’s one of the few cartridge conversions he didn’t pursue further.

 

[mac86951]

I'd be interested in the A.I. if only for a more stable case thru processing; less growth and longer brass life. I know 30-06 brass isn't hard to come by, but a good prepped set still seems to need a little more attention. Maybe once this barrel is shot out.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

By the way it’s one of the few cartridge conversions he didn’t pursue further.

After it was completed, there was nothing left "to pursue" ..... It was done, complete, finished and available to those who wanted it.

And throated for heavy bullets there's some gains to be had, not tremendous gains but 4-5% over a standard 30-06 and without the case trimming as well.

And surely this cartridge isn't the "holy-grail" of 30 calibers or the equivalent of most of the magnums. - It's a 3-5% gain over the standard without the case trimming & works well with 180 gr & up bullet weights.

 

[JimT]

Depends on what you consider better? Ackly “improved” just about everything that was around then. He believed an ”improved” cartridge should gain between 5 - 10% over the parent cartridge. Well, the improved 30/06 didn’t live up to this standard. By the way it’s one of the few cartridge conversions he didn’t pursue further.

Your last sentence is an absolute crock of BS!

This is what he wrote/said about the .30/06 Improved (Ackley).

“This and similar improved versions of the .30/06 have developed into quite controversial cartridges. Actually they have a great deal of merit and for handloaders they can be highly recommended.”

“A cartridge which has gained such world wide popularity does not do it without merit.”

“.....it has become one of the most popular of all wildcat or improved cartridges.”

I don’t know where you got your information, but you might want to invest in a set of his books!!

 

[JEFFPPC]

You do not say if this is for competition or hunting. I can testify that it is a competitive round. A fellow use to come shoot 500 yd matches with one. It was very competitive aginst various 6mm bench cartridges. If I ever build a "big gun", for matches, that is what it will be.

 

[msinc]

I own and hunt with two and have built several. If you intend to just hunt with the rifle then not needing to trim cases and the longer case life may not be too enticing. I have had one of these rifles since 1991. Recently, with some of the new powders {Reloder 26...} having the ability to get more powder in the case is a real advantage when it comes to higher velocity with heavier bullets.
I would suggest to anyone giving serious thought to an Ackley improved cartridge that they purchase and read up on the books P.O. Ackley wrote regarding this wildcat ideology. There are many points that can be made both good and otherwise regarding these conversions. He also has a section where he assesses the viability of each cartridge he converted and experimented with and gives a good brief as to whether or not it is worth doing. In example, the 30-06 and 30-30 are recommended, while some others like the 270 is not. 223 is next on my list, in fact I am regretting not going to this cartridge long ago.
Bottom line, I can own, build, shoot and hunt with any rifle in any caliber I choose, and I will say that my 30-06 Ackley is not going anywhere.

 

[greisdor]

I am thinking of bench rest and I have an extra 308 bolt face Nesika just waiting for a good barrel. I also have a 1.5 inch 10twist barrel.... What I have found in 1K IS IT AIN‘T about velocity but consistent groups - and that seems to around 2850fps depending on the barrel - so I dont need a WSM or bigger.

 

[Mulligan]

I hunt with an '06 AI, I can easily shoot 180 Nosler AB at 3000 accurately (4" groups at 600 yards is common). It is on a 700 action and the original BDL stock (bedded). It keeps up with my 300WM and 300 WSM without difficulty. I think Nosler still has the loading data in their current manuals that shows fairly high performance. If the three grove Lilja went bad today, I would chamber another in an AI in a heartbeat.
CW

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

PM sent with the information you asked for.

 

[jr600yd]

Jim T
Your information is correct although it is outdated and misleading. AI versions of the 30/06 go back to the 1940’s and 50’s. And yes their was an improvement over the parent cartridge of that time however, the improvement was then and is now minor. The recommendation for the improved version faded away in 1963 with the introduction of the 300 Winchester Magnum and regulated the improved 06 to a small spot in history. Today with new and improved powders and bullets the improved version still only has about a 3% gain over the 30/06. Yes it is a viable cartridge today and has a dedicated following but few find it worth the extra loading steps for a cartridge between the 30/06 and the 300 Winchester Magnum. Apparently my books are of newer publication than yours.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

@jr600yd Sir,

This thread has nothing to do with the 300 Winchester Magnum or even comparisons of Any Sort.

- Reference the OP's ORIGANAL Post (It it worth doing ? Anyone one have one ?). Thanks JR

- I'm not here to try to convince you of anything, I'm just here to try to help the OP with real-world experience & information.

So, How about we keep the thread on track or you can move on to somewhere else where you may be possibly of service to someone or something ?


- Happy Thanksgiving -

 

[JLDavid]

I have never met an Ackley Improved cartridge that I didn't like. Are there advatages? You bet. Are there disadvantages? Maybe, but that is in the eye of the beholder. Will it make your old '06 a 300 RUM? Nope but it will make it better than the origional case. If you aren't getting better than marginal performance gains, maybe it is in your reloading and not the cases fault at all. Not busting anyone's stones. My son killed a cow elk at 425 yards with 1 shot this last weekend from a 280 AI shooting 168 grain Berger VLDs. I will always be a fan of the Ackleys.

 

[JimT]

Jim T
Your information is correct although it is outdated and misleading. AI versions of the 30/06 go back to the 1940’s and 50’s. And yes their was an improvement over the parent cartridge of that time however, the improvement was then and is now minor. The recommendation for the improved version faded away in 1963 with the introduction of the 300 Winchester Magnum and regulated the improved 06 to a small spot in history. Today with new and improved powders and bullets the improved version still only has about a 3% gain over the 30/06. Yes it is a viable cartridge today and has a dedicated following but few find it worth the extra loading steps for a cartridge between the 30/06 and the 300 Winchester Magnum. Apparently my books are of newer publication than yours.

I actually have a .30/06 AI, as well as a 280 and 7-08 AI. Mine is on a factory barreled Beretta Mato with a 23.6 inch barrel. With a stout load (a lot less than my Sako 300 Win Mag needs) of Reloader 22 it does 2925 fps using a 180 grain Nosler Partition. I think that is a gain of more than 3%.

I would also refer you to his article in his Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders, Vol. II titled “A .30 Caliber Wildcat Test.” In that test the difference in velocity of a 180 bullet between the .30/06 Improved and the .300 Win Mag was 138 FPS at maximum charges. Of course in order to attain the increased velocity the Win Mag needed over 18% more 4350 powder!!

The fact remains, your initial statement concerning Ackley’s view of his improved.30/06 is a complete fabrication on your part!!!

 

[WAMBO]

I love my 30/06 AI, 24" barrel, mild load of AA4350 gets a 165 Hornady BTSP going 2950 fps with sub .5 moa groups at 300yds.