I'd say your shooting AND load-development skills exceed mine.
Winchester still makes and retailers sell it; I have 300 on the way.
.25 WSSM thread.. I'm starting over.
- Thread starter jeffreybehr
- Start date
FWIW, I'm firmly committed with this new barrel and cartridge to addressing bullet-seating depth earlier than finessing powder charges.. Maybe I'll have a reliable subhalf-MOA load before the barrel's half gone.
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OK; thx.
After discovering that I couldn't buy a new magnum-face bolt from Savage and that having mine enlarged was impracticable, I started looking for another cartridge with a 0.473" face and found the .25 Creedmoor--more practicable in some ways but but less in others.. Performance-wise the two are about the same with about 50g. powder capacity, but I'd have to buy a chamber reamer and send it to Shilen.
Then James at Northland SS was very helpful in pointing me at new bolt-head for my Savage 12, and I have one (c. $35 IIRC) on the way.. So I again have a cartridge in the .25WSSM that's hi-performance AND with long-enough barrel life that's also a little different and more than a little weird, both of which appeal to me.
So after ordering Lapua 6Creed cases, which are returnable, I'm back being comfortable with my .257-caliber choice, the different, weird, stubby .25WSSM.. And a level-bottomed, single-shot action will feed it very well, too. ...
Then James at Northland SS was very helpful in pointing me at new bolt-head for my Savage 12, and I have one (c. $35 IIRC) on the way.. So I again have a cartridge in the .25WSSM that's hi-performance AND with long-enough barrel life that's also a little different and more than a little weird, both of which appeal to me.
So after ordering Lapua 6Creed cases, which are returnable, I'm back being comfortable with my .257-caliber choice, the different, weird, stubby .25WSSM.. And a level-bottomed, single-shot action will feed it very well, too. ...
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Agree with, Paul and Stomp,..
Plus,. even MORE Recoil for, your Shoulder with, the bigger / heavier, .25 cal Bullets !
I absolutely, LOVE my 6 XC with, a CRITERION 1-7.5 Twist bbl. and 1/2 MOA loads, are,.. EASY !
80 grain bullets, up to 108's all, shoot GREAT, using "NO Turn", NORMA Brass and Forster Dies !
And with,. LOW recoil, as,.. I HATE,.. RECOIL !!
Good Luck and I hope you have, success with, your new toy !
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Sorry, but I still don't see the point of .25 cal as you have very few choices for true match bullets. Makes no sense to me...
Paul
Paul
I think the "few choices" issue is pretty much over for the .257 regarding heavier options. I'm not a match shooter and with the 131 BJs, 131/135 Berger's and just reading on the Chinchaga 135/140s in the .257, I'd say that lines up pretty well with the heavies for the .243. Depending on how popular it becomes will determine how many other companies jump aboard that heavy bullet train. I sat on the thought of building a fast twist .270 and .257 for years. Only one decent bullet showed up for the .270 and no more for years. Now some have popped up for the new 6.8 Western. I personally feel the .257 will fulfill my needs in a 130-140 grain bullet better than a 160-170 grain .277 bullet will. Having .284s shooting 160-180s already, that gap is filled. The .257 with the 130 class is flatter than the 6.5s with 130-140s and offer a bit less recoil and almost equal energy if comparing to the 6.5/140s. I felt it was worth the money and time to do personally. The best thing about it is, if it's not what I expected or any different than what I have in the 6.5 options, it's easy to move down the road. Not really out much.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Boltfluter,
Nothing to really understand.
We all like what we all like.
I had a bunch of pushing for me to build a 6BR. "It's what everyone is shooting."
I don't own a Chevy or Ford either.
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Still gathering parts and supplies, selling surplus stuff, and trying to get my shoulder-surgery going.
1. Have received 150 cases of 500 ordered.. Because I simply want to do something with my new caliber, I weighed and sorted the cases into whole-grain (eg. 203.0 - 203.9g.) ranges.. The lightest weigh as little as 202.0 grains and the heaviest as much as 207.n grains.. Also deburred the interior flash holes.
2. Installed the Forster dies into a Lee turret and have ordered a 21st Century
that I will install in one of my PMA Tool expander-die bodies.. (PMA doesn't make a carbide expanding mandrel in .25-cal.)
3. Thru mostly trades but also a purchase, I'm up to 5K of LR primers--4 Win. WLRs and one CCI 34.. Will be selling and trading more of my SRs to get my inventory back to comfortable levels.
4. Have ordered Berger 135- and Blackjack 131g. bullets, and will be ordering Berger 133- and 115g. hunting bullets as soon as I can find a retailer that will accept orders.
5. Will be contacting Shilen to determine the neck diameter of their reamer so that I can start trimming cases with the advice of Al Nyhus.
Have sold my Savage 110 Elite Precision rifle (6Creed) with Criterion 30" 6XC barrel with HS gages and fired cases, etc. Two more rifles, my Uintah UP-15 (a true-bolt-action UBR in 6ARC) and my Savage 110 Desert Tactical (in 6Creed), will be going soon.
1. Have received 150 cases of 500 ordered.. Because I simply want to do something with my new caliber, I weighed and sorted the cases into whole-grain (eg. 203.0 - 203.9g.) ranges.. The lightest weigh as little as 202.0 grains and the heaviest as much as 207.n grains.. Also deburred the interior flash holes.
2. Installed the Forster dies into a Lee turret and have ordered a 21st Century
that I will install in one of my PMA Tool expander-die bodies.. (PMA doesn't make a carbide expanding mandrel in .25-cal.)
3. Thru mostly trades but also a purchase, I'm up to 5K of LR primers--4 Win. WLRs and one CCI 34.. Will be selling and trading more of my SRs to get my inventory back to comfortable levels.
4. Have ordered Berger 135- and Blackjack 131g. bullets, and will be ordering Berger 133- and 115g. hunting bullets as soon as I can find a retailer that will accept orders.
5. Will be contacting Shilen to determine the neck diameter of their reamer so that I can start trimming cases with the advice of Al Nyhus.
Have sold my Savage 110 Elite Precision rifle (6Creed) with Criterion 30" 6XC barrel with HS gages and fired cases, etc. Two more rifles, my Uintah UP-15 (a true-bolt-action UBR in 6ARC) and my Savage 110 Desert Tactical (in 6Creed), will be going soon.
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I like my 25 wssm
Over the last few days, I've received 300 Winchester-brand .25 WSSM cases, sorted them by weight (within groups spanning 1-grain), and deburred inside flash holes.. Then bought from Bruno's a drill-driver-powered case-neck trimmer* (plus trimming and resizing mandrels) by 21st Cent. Shooting...
...and am in the process of trimming a few thousands off the necks.. With serious arthritis in my right hand, I can't do more than 30 to 40 cases in one sitting, but I'm getting there!
The chamber-neck ID is spec'd at 0.300" while a bullet-loaded dummy-cartridge OD measures 0.298 to 0.299", so I'm trimming to 0.295. I don't yet have a barrel or even a Wilson Case Gauge, but I'm getting ready.
The above Hornady SST 117s are seated so that the bottoms of the neck and bullet coincide.
Have accumulated some Hornady SST117s for barrel-break-in, siting-in, and foulers, am trading my many thousands of SR primers for LR primers, and am trying to get my shoulder-joint-rereplacement surgery soon, so that in a few months I can at least assemble and play with my rifle, a Savage 12 BR that has been in 6.5-284, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 6XC.
BTW, I've figured out how to change barrels without overloading my right shoulder--I lay the barreled action on a towel on the floor and push on the action-wrench handle and the ratchet or torque wrench with my feet.. Works quite well.
* I have been using in my 6mm cartridges a Forster inside-neck reamer, but I was advised that inside reaming doesn't produce as concentric a result as an outside trimmer.
...and am in the process of trimming a few thousands off the necks.. With serious arthritis in my right hand, I can't do more than 30 to 40 cases in one sitting, but I'm getting there!
The chamber-neck ID is spec'd at 0.300" while a bullet-loaded dummy-cartridge OD measures 0.298 to 0.299", so I'm trimming to 0.295. I don't yet have a barrel or even a Wilson Case Gauge, but I'm getting ready.
The above Hornady SST 117s are seated so that the bottoms of the neck and bullet coincide.
Have accumulated some Hornady SST117s for barrel-break-in, siting-in, and foulers, am trading my many thousands of SR primers for LR primers, and am trying to get my shoulder-joint-rereplacement surgery soon, so that in a few months I can at least assemble and play with my rifle, a Savage 12 BR that has been in 6.5-284, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 6XC.
BTW, I've figured out how to change barrels without overloading my right shoulder--I lay the barreled action on a towel on the floor and push on the action-wrench handle and the ratchet or torque wrench with my feet.. Works quite well.
* I have been using in my 6mm cartridges a Forster inside-neck reamer, but I was advised that inside reaming doesn't produce as concentric a result as an outside trimmer.
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Some progress.
1. Have inside-deburred 500 cases and neck-trimmed and mouth chamferredg 300.. Also reweighed the 300 and resorted them by weight, again in one-grain groups.. Each case lost as much as 1.3 grains of weight during the process.
2. Have purchased what could be almost 700 Berger 115 VLDs, about half-each hunting and (discontinued) target versions, but haven't yet seen them.
3. Am investigating case-annealing machines, and with my small volume and single caliber, I'm tending toward* the Annealeez.. In about 60 years of reloading, I've NEVER annealed a case.
4. Have ordered 250 Patriot Valley Arms 120g. monolithic target bullets...
patriotvalleyarms.com
I'm hoping they prove easy to tune.. They are rather expensive at $1.16 each in 250s, but then I remember the thou$and$ of 6mm bullets I went thru this and last year looking, unsuccessfully, for one that would shoot well in my rifles.. The $1.16 may turn into a bargain.
5. Sold my Uintah SP-15 'UBR'...
uintahprecision.com
...and was again able to pay my CC bill in full this month. I'm not tellin' how much of that Lester Bruno and family received, but I know one thing--they sure smile when I walk in! Sold also my old Nightforce 12-42X56 benchrest scope.. Have one-each rifle and scope to sell.
6. Thru judicious buying and trading, I've increased my inventory of LR primers to comfortable levels, but I could use some W.760/H414 and VV. N550 powder...
7. The progress of my upcoming shoulder-joint-rereplacement surgery has turned into a crawl, but I'm still hoping for June, which should be at least two months before the barrel arrives.
Life is good; I hope yours, too, is.
* At 77 years of age, I finally determined the difference between 'toward' and 'towards'.. They're the same thing and both correct; the difference is that the former is the American preference and the latter the British preference.
1. Have inside-deburred 500 cases and neck-trimmed and mouth chamferredg 300.. Also reweighed the 300 and resorted them by weight, again in one-grain groups.. Each case lost as much as 1.3 grains of weight during the process.
2. Have purchased what could be almost 700 Berger 115 VLDs, about half-each hunting and (discontinued) target versions, but haven't yet seen them.
3. Am investigating case-annealing machines, and with my small volume and single caliber, I'm tending toward* the Annealeez.. In about 60 years of reloading, I've NEVER annealed a case.
4. Have ordered 250 Patriot Valley Arms 120g. monolithic target bullets...
FLM .257 120gr "Seneca" Competition Bullet - 50 ct
office@patriotvalleyarms.com
patriotvalleyarms.com
5. Sold my Uintah SP-15 'UBR'...
UP-15 Complete rifle – Bolt Action AR Uppers | AR-10 & AR-15 | Uintah Precision
***DUE TO ORDER VOLUMES, UP15 BACKORDERS HAVE ABOUT A 2-4 WEEK LEAD TIME*** ***In stock quantities represent components on hand to complete rifles. At this point, due to order volume, orders are being assembled as they are received.*** The UP-15 is a TRUE bolt action AR rifle with a 3-lug...
uintahprecision.com
I'm not tellin' how much of that Lester Bruno and family received, but I know one thing--they sure smile when I walk in! Sold also my old Nightforce 12-42X56 benchrest scope.. Have one-each rifle and scope to sell.6. Thru judicious buying and trading, I've increased my inventory of LR primers to comfortable levels, but I could use some W.760/H414 and VV. N550 powder...
SOLD - TRADE PRIMERS?--LRs for my SRs, F-t-F only, central AZ; powder too!
I have-- CCI No. 41, labeled 'For 5.56mm Ammunition' and 'Small Rifle Military Primers', 7K. CCI wrote, when asked what the differences were between the standard CCI 400s and these 41s: "The CCI 41s have a Magnum priming mix and an anvil angle change that will reduce the possibility of slam...
forum.accurateshooter.com
7. The progress of my upcoming shoulder-joint-rereplacement surgery has turned into a crawl, but I'm still hoping for June, which should be at least two months before the barrel arrives.
Life is good; I hope yours, too, is.
* At 77 years of age, I finally determined the difference between 'toward' and 'towards'.. They're the same thing and both correct; the difference is that the former is the American preference and the latter the British preference.
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Thx, but...
I just looked at its reloading data. I don't want a .25-cal. cartridge that burns mid-50s-grains of powder.
A local kind soul who reads this forum apparently took pity on another quarter-incher and sold me three 100boxes of the discontinued Berger Target VLD Match Grade 115s, #25413; they sure are pretty.. With the 115g. Hunting VLDs on the way, I'll have over 600.
This one is seated into the case only about a quarter of the neck length; the cartridge measures 2.66" overall.. Maximum OAL per SAAMI is 2.36", but with an at-least-medium-length Savage 12 single-shot with a solid bottom, OAL will not be a problem.
Chamber-throat length is still open; Shilen will throat the new barrel to whatever dummy cartridge I send them.. I've ordered from two retailers a 500box of the new Berger 135g. LR Hybrids, but only God knows when they'll be arriving in stores. (A Berger tech told me this week that the shipping-date target is still 'late-June, early-July'.)
But a question in my alleged mind--seems to me if I have Shilen throat the barrel for the 1.42"-overall-length 135 with the bottom of its bearing surface seated a hair short of the bottom of the neck, the 115s then can't be loaded long enough to reach the lands.. It makes sense to me to have it throated only deep enough so that the 115s just touch the lands; that way, the 135s (and the Blackjack131s) can be seated anywhere from a substantial jam to somewhat off the lands.. What say you far-more-experienced reloadists?
One more thing--bored last nite, I measured the capacity of a new, resized case in grains of the powder I have as candidates for this cartridge.. Cases were filled to overflowing and then tapped a couple-dozen times to settle the powder.. The results, from most to least--
SUPERformance----------59.0 grains (highest actual charge 49.0[C])
StaBALL6.5----------------57.7
H4350 and Reloader17---54.0 (45.9 and 45.3)
Reloader19-----------------52.6, (47.0[C])
IMR 4955*-----------------51.6 grains.
I also searched my spreadsheet of best loads from all relliable sources I could find, and I think there are seven, for the highest powder charge of that powder with bullets of at least 115 grains; that's in parentheses; [C] = Compressed.. This spreadsheet is available to anyone who asks, but it's a highly subjective list of loads, deliberately containing no charges for powders from VV, Norma, and Western/Accurate/Ramshot**.
* I haven't used an IMR powder for decades; I picked this one off the burning-rate chart for being next-slower than SUPERformance and for being an ENDURON powder with high temperature stability and having a copper-fouling inhibitor; we'll see how it does..
** Ramshot Hunter did well with 120s, but it acts almost like water, running out of the dispensing tube of my Hornady automated dispenser.. I have about a half-pound of it and will give it to anyone who wants to retrieve it at my house in Phoenix.
This one is seated into the case only about a quarter of the neck length; the cartridge measures 2.66" overall.. Maximum OAL per SAAMI is 2.36", but with an at-least-medium-length Savage 12 single-shot with a solid bottom, OAL will not be a problem.
Chamber-throat length is still open; Shilen will throat the new barrel to whatever dummy cartridge I send them.. I've ordered from two retailers a 500box of the new Berger 135g. LR Hybrids, but only God knows when they'll be arriving in stores. (A Berger tech told me this week that the shipping-date target is still 'late-June, early-July'.)
But a question in my alleged mind--seems to me if I have Shilen throat the barrel for the 1.42"-overall-length 135 with the bottom of its bearing surface seated a hair short of the bottom of the neck, the 115s then can't be loaded long enough to reach the lands.. It makes sense to me to have it throated only deep enough so that the 115s just touch the lands; that way, the 135s (and the Blackjack131s) can be seated anywhere from a substantial jam to somewhat off the lands.. What say you far-more-experienced reloadists?
One more thing--bored last nite, I measured the capacity of a new, resized case in grains of the powder I have as candidates for this cartridge.. Cases were filled to overflowing and then tapped a couple-dozen times to settle the powder.. The results, from most to least--
SUPERformance----------59.0 grains (highest actual charge 49.0[C])
StaBALL6.5----------------57.7
H4350 and Reloader17---54.0 (45.9 and 45.3)
Reloader19-----------------52.6, (47.0[C])
IMR 4955*-----------------51.6 grains.
I also searched my spreadsheet of best loads from all relliable sources I could find, and I think there are seven, for the highest powder charge of that powder with bullets of at least 115 grains; that's in parentheses; [C] = Compressed.. This spreadsheet is available to anyone who asks, but it's a highly subjective list of loads, deliberately containing no charges for powders from VV, Norma, and Western/Accurate/Ramshot**.
* I haven't used an IMR powder for decades; I picked this one off the burning-rate chart for being next-slower than SUPERformance and for being an ENDURON powder with high temperature stability and having a copper-fouling inhibitor; we'll see how it does..
** Ramshot Hunter did well with 120s, but it acts almost like water, running out of the dispensing tube of my Hornady automated dispenser.. I have about a half-pound of it and will give it to anyone who wants to retrieve it at my house in Phoenix.
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I would set the chamber up for the specific bullet I want to use, I doubt you are going to see the far end of 2000 rounds through that barrel burning 50+grains off powder so I would make sure its the way I want it from the word go.
ONE of my problems is that I won't know which bullet(s)* I'll want to use, long-term, until I develop loads for them.. Seems to me the safest thing to do is to throat it for the 115 filling half of the neck length and lengthen the throat if I need to.
Powder charges will likely be in the mid-40s** and not as much as 50 grains which is 8 to 10 grains less than those for a .25-'06; the .25WSSM is quite short at 1.67" case length.
* Four Bergers from 115 thru 135 grains including those for hunting, the Blackjack131, and the Patriot Arms 120g. monometal Seneca.
** For instance, the average of all the maximum charges for 115- and 117g. bullets in my highly selective (NO powders from Norma, VV, or Western/Accurate/Ramshot) spreadsheet of candidates is 46.1g.. PM your e-mail address if you'd like a copy of it.
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