I see the AR market for this cartridge actually having the potential to improve availability of Grendel brass, if Hornady comes out with brass that satifies the ar guys that are happy to just blast away it should also increase demand for premium brass as well as take some load off of the premium market, assuming they up production accordingly. I mean, the market will better support all brass for it and the vast majority will go to spray and pray people. I may be wrong and I just hope that makes sense to anyone besides me. Lol!
22ARC
- Thread starter Bat Rastard
- Start date
Hornady is going to start with a 7 twist in order to shoot their new bullets. They may be on to something but I would like to see a little slower twist in order to shoot standard v max bullets. It will be interesting to see works out. If they get 3300 out of an 18-20" barrel with a 62 gr bullet it should be a winner.
alf
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Ned Ludd
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Although Hornady doesn't list velocities as yet that I could find for any of their 22 ARC loaded ammunution, there are some numbers for the 88 ELDM load in the "Product Section" partway down the page at Midway USA:
www.midwayusa.com
2820 fps from a an 88 gr bullet out of a 24" test barrel seems just a tad short of "rivaling" 22-250 performance to me, but that could just be an advertising thing. In the long run, it's probably smart that Hornady is not trying to push the 88s in the 3000 fps range, as jacket failures could easily become a significant issue out of a 7-twist barrel. I didn't check to see whether Midway USA had ammo specs for any of the other bullet weights listed.
Hornady Match 22 Advanced Rifle Cartridge (22 ARC) Ammo 88 Grain
This ammunition is custom-grade from the factory, loaded to stringent specifications to guarantee proper ignition and provide consistent, match-winning,...
www.midwayusa.com
2820 fps from a an 88 gr bullet out of a 24" test barrel seems just a tad short of "rivaling" 22-250 performance to me, but that could just be an advertising thing. In the long run, it's probably smart that Hornady is not trying to push the 88s in the 3000 fps range, as jacket failures could easily become a significant issue out of a 7-twist barrel. I didn't check to see whether Midway USA had ammo specs for any of the other bullet weights listed.
I looked into the 22arc. Disappointed me after reading about it. I’ll stick with my 223AI. It shoots the 69 tmk at 3300 fps and 55 gr bk at 3550. This is a lot closer to a 22-250 than the 22arc. To each his own.
It should be significantly more capacity wise vs the 220R. Shooting light bullets..52-55gr from a 220 Beggs, my max load is +/- 26.0 gr of Lt32. I'd guess it to be around 30.0 in the 22 ARC. Obviously, no tested data yet but based on capacity and my experience with a 6 Grendel using the same case but bigger bore..fwiw.
The way I read this is, a big push mainly for the AR15 platform and the new bullet. The bullet may survive, but with all the hoopla about the "assault weapons", what if they do get a ban in place? I listened to the podcast and in one side they said "you cant compare a 24" or 26" 22-250 to a 18 or 20 inch 22Arc, you gotta compare apples to apples.." but then they compare the 22-250 with a 55gr. bullet and the 22Arc with the new aerodynamic 62br. bullet.. at like 400 yards the 22arc has a fair amount of less wind drift, well yea it would due to the bullet design. Compare apples to apples and my money is on the 250.
But, the 22 Arc is still an interesting round, and not saying I wouldnt give one a whirl...
But, the 22 Arc is still an interesting round, and not saying I wouldnt give one a whirl...
There was a time, not that long ago, when they would not butt heads with "big green"(Remington). Remington was a marketing giant and Hornady was very much...no match for them. My how things have changed in a relatively short period.
Back about the time Remington introduced the 300 AAC Blackout, Hornady had been working with the USAMU on a 30 caliber AR15 cartridge with the sole purpose of making major power factor in USPSA 3-gun competitions, reliably. This was back when a US team member named Daniel Horner was on his game and the AMU team was kicking ass in that game around the country and abroad, iirc. Most matches had a fair number of rifle and pistol/shotgun stages at matches and power factor was as big in the rifle portion as it is today in the handgun portion. For those unaware, major and minor power factors are a floor of bullet weight x velocity/1000 that yields a number that you must meet for minimum qualifications to compete with minor at all and major power factor was a scoring advantage over those that only shot minor but dealt with less recoil.
Our AMU team dominated rifle matches with the "new" 30 cal AR15 cartridge. The cartridge was reliable, very accurate and solved the issue of breaking bolt lugs while loaded to major power factor levels that other cartridges at the time suffered from when pushed that hard. The handwriting was on the wall that they had a winner in that game and Hornady marketed it for a short period as a 30 Action Shooting(name). Hornady and the AMU had it all going. They had a new cartridge in a growing and popular game that no one had an answer for. It would make MPF as well as serve as a great hunting round for medium sized game from the light, compact and hugely popular AR15...Not to mention the obvious benefit to the military, kicking doors down in Iraq at about the same time. This was in the 2008-2009 timeframe.
The new cartridge was simple...a 6.5 Grendel necked up to 30 caliber. Ahhh! That sounds familiar, because I developed that cartridge in 2007 and because of trademark protection by Alexander Arms regarding the name Grendel...I called it a 30 Major!
Well, it was my work and I could prove it but I did not patent it. So, when I got news of what Hornady and the USAMU were up to with their new cartridge, I contacted a patent attorney to see if there was anything I could do. She walked me through it well and pretty much said, sit tight and lets let them get heavily invested before we raise our hand with our proof, that it was the type of thing that they'd likely want to keep quiet and would likely pay me something or possibly offer a cushy "consultant" or similar job in the case development area. I tried on multiple occasions to contact Hornady and AMU personnel about it and both declined to discuss it with me. It was obvious that they knew very well I was involved with it well before they were and had no plans to share the wealth. It was very blatant and underhanded, IMHO. Now we have these "new" ARC cartridges. New...really? Lol! Lets just say that I find other products seemingly work better for me in my guns, always. Blind luck I guess.
A short time later, Remington came out with a 30 Cal AR15 cartridge of their own, called the 300 AAC Blackout. Hornady stopped in their tracks, anything and everything to do with their new 30 Action Shooting cartridge and assumed their role way behind Remington in the marketing department and it went away without a whisper(yes, kinda pun intended). Of course now, Remington and their AAC dision are now long gone as we once knew them, respectively.
Anyway, I hear about my little 30 cal wildcat with the silly name from time to time and a few, myself included, do campaign it in short range benchrest, mostly for score being a 30 cal. and it very much holds its own, particularly against say a 30BR. It shines when one has a dedicated ppc bolt face and wants to shoot a 30 in score matches.
I just thought it was a cool story and I'd share it and how I came up with the name 30 Major for it. It's a good little round but that's how it happened...or almost happened anyway. --Mike
As usual...just my luck, though! Lol!
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I wanted a 22ppc/beggs/walldog, they all seem to work well. Went 22br.
If plentiful 22 arc brass appears in the bin like 223rem, I would get a barrel.
If plentiful 22 arc brass appears in the bin like 223rem, I would get a barrel.
“Compare apples to apples and my money is on the 250.”
R Meyerwy, I m with you. A case with 15% or more powder capacity (22-250) is not getting outperformed by a new 22 ARC whiz bang with apples and apples comparison regarding bullets and barrel lengths. ( unless you seriously down load the larger case OR seriously overload ( pressure) the smaller case.) It’s physics plain and simple !!
R Meyerwy, I m with you. A case with 15% or more powder capacity (22-250) is not getting outperformed by a new 22 ARC whiz bang with apples and apples comparison regarding bullets and barrel lengths. ( unless you seriously down load the larger case OR seriously overload ( pressure) the smaller case.) It’s physics plain and simple !!
Especially so with the heavy for caliber bullets...but yes.
Be a slick little truck gun in a Howa Mini action!
I did a 22 Grendel on a Howa Mini almost a year ago, then decided to get the reamers I should've gotten in the 1st place - 22 Grinch. I liked the Grinch so much that I decided to do one on a full-size action, and ordered a Zermatt Origin with the PPC bolt head. Though I have a 500pc batch of unfired Lapua 6.5 grendel brass, I bought Starline to use with the Grinch. MDT makes 10rd mags for the 6 ARC, and they work just fine for the Grinch as well. I did pull the Mini's Bartlein 22 Grendel bbl and punch it out with the Grinch reamer, but so far, I've spent most of my time shooting the Origin Grinch.
My idea of a slick little truck rifle is a Howa Mini with a Bartlein Rem Magnum sporter contour bbl in 6.5 Grendel. It's currently a 24" bbl, but when I finally get the TBAC Gen 2 Ultra 5 suppressor for it, I'll likely shorten it back to 18"-20", and load sub-sonic ammo with 107-123gr bullets. It should be the bee's knees for coyote calling...
My idea of a slick little truck rifle is a Howa Mini with a Bartlein Rem Magnum sporter contour bbl in 6.5 Grendel. It's currently a 24" bbl, but when I finally get the TBAC Gen 2 Ultra 5 suppressor for it, I'll likely shorten it back to 18"-20", and load sub-sonic ammo with 107-123gr bullets. It should be the bee's knees for coyote calling...
Just buy enough brass to last the barrel...
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