223 24" best bullet to blow up P Dogs?

[BobbyJ]

I think next year I'm going to try a PD shoot. I have a pencil barrel .204 ruger but got to thinking ammo is going to cost and I don't have brass for .204. I do have 3000 223 brass for my AR and Dillon xl650. I'm thinking of just getting a 24' Bull Barrel for my Colt 6920. I'm thinking I can probably get a .223 close to .204 or 22-250 performance.

So I'm shopping uppers.
-Rock River Arms 24 inch - Varmint A4 - 1/12 Twist - They claim sub MOA and good for 40-55gr

https://www.pkfirearms.com/rock-river-arms-24-inch-varmint-a4-112-twist-complete-upper

-Bullets? Overall the 53gr Vmax at 3450fps looks to buck the wind better than the 40s.

I compared
53 gr Vmax 2.90 BC at 3450 fps to
40 gr Vmax 2.00 BC at 3800 fps

Even though the 53 gr is slower it has 15.6" of wind drift vs 22.2" of the 40gr
and 572 FPE vs 341 FPE at 400 yards.

I read the 40gr is more explosive but that might only be at 100 yards. At some point they all have to loose that explosive POP on dogs. I don't know what ranges that occurs on with the 40s vs the 53s.

Another thing is heat, 3800fps with 40gr is going to heat up the barrels more than 3450 fps with the 53gr.

Never been on a Pdog shoot just starting to researching what will work best. I'm thinking 1/12 twist will get the most velocity out of the 53gr as long as they stablize well. Maybe I can push the 53s to 3500 fps in that 24" barrel.

I'm all ears on suggestions on bullets, powders, and the AR barrel.

What range will this be good for? I'm thinking maybe out to 400 yards. Would like to hear from people that have actually shot P dogs with a .223.

I would go with .204 or 22-250 but I have no brass or dies for it. Seems cheaper to stick with .223 and make the best of it.

 

[mac86951]

Wait wait wait. You're asking if the #1 most popular varmint cartridge is good on varmints? Lol!

I have different recommendations based on the action. Typically go with longest barrel lightest bullet. However sub 45gr in 223 gets flaky in the wind. I'd say stick to 45 gr or 50gr such as blitzking or other brand similar.

From an AR? Speer TNT no tips to break on feeding.

-Mac

 

[BobbyJ]

Wait wait wait. You're asking if the #1 most popular varmint cartridge is good on varmints? Lol!

I have different recommendations based on the action. Typically go with longest barrel lightest bullet. However sub 45gr in 223 gets flaky in the wind. I'd say stick to 45 gr or 50gr such as blitzking or other brand similar.

From an AR? Speer TNT no tips to break on feeding.

-Mac

LOL I have no idea what is best so many bullets powders barrels twist rates etc. Lots of things to consider. I see guys going for 4200 fps then later read they shot their barrel out on a weekend. So like where is the velocity where you start to get diminishing returns. like maybe slower velocity might allow more shots before the barrel starts to cook. I know my .204 pencil barrle is like a stove after 5 shots at 4200 fps. Don't think it would hold up well on a PD shoot.
I looked at the 53gr because of the high BC and I can reload or buy factory. On some videos it seems there is always wind on PD shoots so maybe a 40gr would be too much of a struggle.

Also thinking of bring my WSM 20 cal rim fire. Might be good out to 200 yards or so. Not sure what the average range of shots is on PD hunts.

 

[mac86951]

LOL I have no idea what is best so many bullets powders barrels twist rates etc. Lots of things to consider. I see guys going for 4200 fps then later read they shot their barrel out on a weekend. So like where is the velocity where you start to get diminishing returns. like maybe slower velocity might allow more shots before the barrel starts to cook. I know my .204 pencil barrle is like a stove after 5 shots at 4200 fps. Don't think it would hold up well on a PD shoot.

So the old 222 recipe was 50gr 3200fps, you want life and accuracy 50gr 3200-3300 and load around there for an accuracy node. What's 100/200fps more when barrel life is far less?

Edit, this is 223 with 50gr.

204 is another story

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I really like the 53 gr vmax for pd, especially 300 yds+ but the 223 is not chunk and mist at 300 yards(with any bullet). I always have a 223 with the vmax loads with, the TNT is good. If I wanted to go with a bullet without a tip, I would use a 50 gr SX for the close dogs(I shoot these out of Ar's for coyote, Fox, raccoon). You can neck your 223 brass down, make 20p. A whole lot of fun with 32 gr vmax, and very accurate. Really get some good aerials inside 200 yards. My 223's are now just backups to the 20 cals. Make a 20p with a 11 twist 22"+ barrel, put a wet wrap on the barrel for faster shooting.

 

[moorepower]

I really like the 53 gr vmax for pd, especially 300 yds+ but the 223 is not chunk and mist at 300 yards(with any bullet). I always have a 223 with the vmax loads with, the TNT is good. If I wanted to go with a bullet without a tip, I would use a 50 gr SX for the close dogs(I shoot these out of Ar's for coyote, Fox, raccoon).

The 50sx is a great, often overlooked bullet, but the 53 Vmax is also very destructive and bucks the wind much better. I am stocked up on both!

 

[Dgd6mm]

Bobby, the 53vmax is the ticket for me in my boltgun. Check the archives under the post from 5spd. He uses several different bullets, and cartridges but he is very fond of the 50vmax. He probably shoots more pdogs in a year than some shooters will shoot in a lifetime.

 

[BobbyJ]

Bobby, the 53vmax is the ticket for me in my boltgun. Check the archives under the post from 5spd. He uses several different bullets, and cartridges but he is very fond of the 50vmax. He probably shoots more pdogs in a year than some shooters will shoot in a lifetime.

I read the 53gr and 1/12 twist is borderline according to hornady. They said more velocity at 1/12 is better but don't recall at what velocity the 53gr is most stable with a 1/12 twist.
How fast can I push the 53gr in a 24" 1/12 twist? 3500 fps in .223?

I'm not 100 percent I'll get that 24" rock river upper I could also just buy a CZ .223 but I think they are 1/9 twist.

 

[Dgd6mm]

If I remember correctly my 26" 12 twist was spitting them out at 3300 fps. Killed them out to right at 450 yards. 300- 350 and in is a lot easier when the wind start getting up. I was using IMR3031. I may be wrong about my chrono #'s. I don't have the information right here. If I think about it I'll check it and correct myself if I'm wrong.

 

[Jdne5b]

Just cause I like helping people spend money. Get a 20 Practical upper, 10 or 11 twist and make brass out of cheap 223 brass, and then find some 40gr VMAX or 39gr Sierras.

 

[lb-ft]

53 Vmax at 3300 on the money in a bolt gun 26” 1:12 @ 6,000 above sea level. Stout load CFE223.

I doubt 3500 FPS in a 24” AR is safe.

 

[Ray123]

40 gr Nosler BT shot good in all the 5.56 atuoloaders, 8 and 7 twist surprisingly and used em in a 222 14 twist bolt gun at 3750 fps with moly coating in the old days, (and a hefty charge of H335) on sage rats, rabbits, and rock chucks,... at normal ranges.

 

[BobbyJ]

Just cause I like helping people spend money. Get a 20 Practical upper, 10 or 11 twist and make brass out of cheap 223 brass, and then find some 40gr VMAX or 39gr Sierras.

Interresting and doable option. Does sizing 223 brass down to 20 cal still have enough neck tension? Sounds like it would make the gun .204 ruger like.

 

[dusterdave173]

We just got back from our first trip
Out of two days we only had about 3 dogs that did like all the internet videos--we shot 40 and 50 Vmax 223--Many of the hits looked like they were in an old Western shootout --and were just journeymen stunt guys--Our 50g Vmax were chrono'd at 3200 and since we never had a shot under 300 just went in one side and a little apple size hole on the other--not much drama. So...the best conclusion I can draw is that the internet is not a good reflection of reality. I can say too that BC, bullet weight, etc velocity, etc all goes out the window when you are aiming at one 500 yds out--Hitting them is all that matters--wind, perhaps having to shoot IN to the sun of a morning,keeping an eye out for rattle snakes etc will play a much bigger part than all of the ballistic stuff in the end--Yes all of it has to go right but the many other factors are just as important if not more than the parts I worried over just like you. Before you go that is all you know to control--after you go you see that it was not as big a deal.
20 mph wind at 400-500 into the morning sun with adrenaline pumping is what to expect
Bullet drop , barrel twist, bullet weight, barrel length, powder choice--not so much

After the first trip ---you get home and see looking back the Many things it takes to get them
but the best part is it will be the most fun you have ever had with a firearm--period! No matter how few or how many you get, that will be the least of it.
You are in for a treat no matter what happens

 

[JSH]

Watch the twist if you go with the older style jacketed soft point varmint bullets. I have had them poof with 22 and 6mm. Some folks have no issues, they point at my barrel quality and not the twist. I will say they are top of the line barrels and they will shoot certain varmint bullets with no issue.

Hate to see the OP load up a bucket full only to find the SX cant handle the twist.

 

[dusterdave173]

I had the SX go poof at 3300 in a 9 twist Savage went with std jacket no issues

 

[Jdne5b]

Interresting and doable option. Does sizing 223 brass down to 20 cal still have enough neck tension? Sounds like it would make the gun .204 ruger like.

yes, you size the brass using a .223 bushing die and bushings sized for .20 calibers. Usually in two steps initially with like a .233 and then .225 bushing.

 

[redrockranger]

I think next year I'm going to try a PD shoot. I have a pencil barrel .204 ruger but got to thinking ammo is going to cost and I don't have brass for .204. I do have 3000 223 brass for my AR and Dillon xl650. I'm thinking of just getting a 24' Bull Barrel for my Colt 6920. I'm thinking I can probably get a .223 close to .204 or 22-250 performance.

So I'm shopping uppers.
-Rock River Arms 24 inch - Varmint A4 - 1/12 Twist - They claim sub MOA and good for 40-55gr

https://www.pkfirearms.com/rock-river-arms-24-inch-varmint-a4-112-twist-complete-upper

-Bullets? Overall the 53gr Vmax at 3450fps looks to buck the wind better than the 40s.

I compared
53 gr Vmax 2.90 BC at 3450 fps to
40 gr Vmax 2.00 BC at 3800 fps

Even though the 53 gr is slower it has 15.6" of wind drift vs 22.2" of the 40gr
and 572 FPE vs 341 FPE at 400 yards.

I read the 40gr is more explosive but that might only be at 100 yards. At some point they all have to loose that explosive POP on dogs. I don't know what ranges that occurs on with the 40s vs the 53s.

Another thing is heat, 3800fps with 40gr is going to heat up the barrels more than 3450 fps with the 53gr.

Never been on a Pdog shoot just starting to researching what will work best. I'm thinking 1/12 twist will get the most velocity out of the 53gr as long as they stablize well. Maybe I can push the 53s to 3500 fps in that 24" barrel.

I'm all ears on suggestions on bullets, powders, and the AR barrel.

What range will this be good for? I'm thinking maybe out to 400 yards. Would like to hear from people that have actually shot P dogs with a .223.

I would go with .204 or 22-250 but I have no brass or dies for it. Seems cheaper to stick with .223 and make the best of it.

AR is not a good PD gun. 3000 -223 brass get a 20 practical heavy barrel, in at least a 11 twist. 40 gr Nosler or 39 Sierra work well. I have never regretted the 20 Practical over a 223.

 

[urbanrifleman]

No one burned up a 223 barrel in a weekend.

Build a bolt gun. Chasing brass on the prairie sucks. You don't need semi auto performance to shoot dogs. I can get you into a good barrel for pretty reasonably prices. I would get the 223 Ackley.

I have 50 vmax on sale. That's probably my choice of what I have left.

Hrndy V-max 22 Cal .224 50gr 100ct

Precision Rifle Shooting Accessories

theurbanriflemanstore.com

Hrndy V-max 22 Cal .224 53gr 100ct

Precision Rifle Shooting Accessories

theurbanriflemanstore.com

 

[AndrewB]

Here is another vote for the 53 gr Hornady v-max. Good BC for what it is (better than the flat base 50 and 55's), boat tail makes it easier to load and it blows up PDogs. I have been using these since they came out. Shoot about 1,000 of them a year. I go for a week a year, sometimes 2 weeks a year, and have been for 25 years. In an A/R I use IMR4895 at 26.0 grains. YMMV so be careful. I mostly use these in a 22BR these days.

I test varmint bullets on grape fruit. I have found that if it blows up a grapefruit, it will blow up a PDog. If it just punches thru a GF, no good on a Pdog. And who likes grapefruit anyway.

Get a brass catcher or brass deflector for your AR so you dont have to chase brass all over the prairie.

Most fun you can have with a rifle.