22 PPC and 222 for 1000yd BR

[Evan]

It was brought to my attention that it's hard to tell how big these groups are, especially since the pictures are zoomed in, so here's a run down of the smallest I shot today:

• 2 shots, 26.6gns of Win 748, 2780fps marked in blue, 0.258" outside edge to outside edge.
• 2 shots, 29.0gns of SW Long Rifle, 2770fps marked in dark green, 0.464" center to center
• 2 shots, 28.5gns of TS15.5, 2940fps marked in light green, 0.653" center to center
• 2 shots, 29.5gns of RL17, 2960fps marked in orange, 0.686" center to center
• 3 shots, 27.9gns Varget, seat +5 into lands, 1.763"

All at 500 yards. I'm excited to take it to 1000yds. It is shooting every bit as well as all my 22BR barrels, so I have little doubt that it will be competitive.

 

[Evan]

Another 600yd BR match today at CRC, and it was windy as always. This was our first all-electronic match shot entirely on ShotMarkers, so I don't have pictures of targets to share. The 22 PPC did pretty good today:

LG: 161-2x and 4.68 group agg. Two of the top 3 groups of the LG match in there: 3.13 and 3.17 inches.

HG: 162-0x and 3.49 group agg. Two of the top 3 groups of the HG match again: 2.69 and 2.79 inches.

This result netted me 3rd place across the board in LG, and 1st in HG and 2-gun Group and Overall. I'm pleased with the result and I don't think this 22 PPC has given up anything compared to the 22BR, but more barrels and history will be required to know for sure.

Also, I'm not sure when I will get to shoot this at 1000yds before I go to Deep Creek in August. The 1000yd club is in limbo at the moment while we figure out the match organization and schedules.

 

[Evan]

In case anyone is interested in longevity at these speeds: I have 4 reloads on this Norma 22 PPC brass and all of it is in good shape. These loads are hot though they aren’t loosening primer pockets or expanding the case head enough to affect sizing and smooth chambering. I’ll definitely report if or when the brass wears out. If it’s like my 22BR, that day may not come for many years.

 

[The boogalorian]

In case anyone is interested in longevity at these speeds: I have 4 reloads on this Norma 22 PPC brass and all of it is in good shape. These loads are hot though they aren’t loosening primer pockets or expanding the case head enough to affect sizing and smooth chambering. I’ll definitely report if or when the brass wears out. If it’s like my 22BR, that day may not come for many years.

Thanks for posting your results. I am waiting on a 22 ARC from my smith right now. While not the same I think your results will help me start load development. I am hoping to shoot 95gn SMK’s @ 2800-2850 fps.

 

[Evan]

Thanks for posting your results. I am waiting on a 22 ARC from my smith right now. While not the same I think your results will help me start load development. I am hoping to shoot 95gn SMK’s @ 2800-2850 fps.

My 28” HV 22 BR barrels shot them 2950-3000. The 22 Grendel is only a tiny bit less capacity than the 22 BR so I would expect you’ll get there with some velocity still available.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

My 28” HV 22 BR barrels shot them 2950-3000. The 22 Grendel is only a tiny bit less capacity than the 22 BR so I would expect you’ll get there with some velocity still available.

Ehhhh, maybe. There's a bit of difference but you're right to say they are close. I don't know how hot your br load is so maybe he gets there before running into pressure and maybe not. A Grendel case is pretty much right between a PPC and a BR in capacity. A tad closer to ppc. They do handle pressure well, maybe a tad better than a BR due to a bit less bolt thrust but with less brass around the primer. Hard to say for sure. Been shooting a 6 Grendel with good success for several years. Just now working on loads for my first 22 Grendel. I can tell it's a shooter, similar to a PPC or 6 Grendel, but too soon to say how similar. I'm running lighter bullets in the bbl. Up to about a 57 grain 22. But the predicted speeds are pretty danged impressive. Haven't chrono'd it yet. I suspect the load I shot last is in the 3800fps range with 55's, though. Will know more soon. Maybe the first signs of pressure about there, from what I can tell. 3900 would be super if I can get there, keep em tiny and not wreck my Lapua brass. I'm not asking for much! Again though, 55 gr bullets and100-300 primary purpose for this one.

 

[Evan]

Ehhhh, maybe. There's a bit of difference but you're right to say they are close. I don't know how hot your br load is so maybe he gets there before running into pressure and maybe not. A Grendel case is pretty much right between a PPC and a BR in capacity. A tad closer to ppc. They do handle pressure well, maybe a tad better than a BR due to a bit less bolt thrust but with less brass around the primer. Hard to say for sure. Been shooting a 6 Grendel with good success for several years. Just now working on loads for my first 22 Grendel. I can tell it's a shooter, similar to a PPC or 6 Grendel, but too soon to say how similar. I'm running lighter bullets in the bbl. Up to about a 57 grain 22. But the predicted speeds are pretty danged impressive. Haven't chrono'd it yet. I suspect the load I shot last is in the 3800fps range with 55's, though. Will know more soon.

The BR and the PPC cases really hide pressure. GRT predicts I should be in the 58-60ksi range depending how you fiddle with starting pressure and other variables. That’s pretty hot IMO. My Borden BRL is glass smooth and I go by bolt lift. I can’t have any weird change in how the bolt cycles because I run my shots for a group fast.

All that to say, I don’t know if just any action and chamber can do this without blanking primers or locking up the bolt.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The BR and the PPC cases really hide pressure. GRT predicts I should be in the 58-60ksi range depending how you fiddle with starting pressure and other variables. That’s pretty hot IMO. My Borden BRL is glass smooth and I go by bolt lift. I can’t have any weird change in how the bolt cycles because I run my shots for a group fast.

All that to say, I don’t know if just any action and chamber can do this without blanking primers or locking up the bolt.

I'm a huge Borden fan, myself. Lots of factors play into a crater but pressure is just way down the list is all. Locking the bolt is a completely different animal. I understand running your groups. I'm kinda fanatical about smoothness for that reason too. Gotta be able to when needed, even if I pick my way more often than not. Sometimes I'm patient and sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm not! Lol!

 

[ASbobcat]

A Waldog has about the same capacity as a deuce, and starts life as Lapua 220 Russian…. Very good brass


And

A Talldog has the same capacity as a ppc but on Lapua br brass

Just something to ponder
CW

Where might one find a 22 Talldog sizing die?

 

[ASbobcat]

Thanks for posting your results. I am waiting on a 22 ARC from my smith right now. While not the same I think your results will help me start load development. I am hoping to shoot 95gn SMK’s @ 2800-2850 fps.

Anxious to hear real world experience with a 22ARC bolt gun.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Anxious to hear real world experience with a 22ARC bolt gun.

I'm working on just that. The gun is done and looks like it's gonna be a shooter. I just need time to fine tune and shoot it. It's 14 twist so light bullets. I've got several but my intent is to use Danny Hensley's 55 or 57 grainers in it primarily. That bullet has been literally setting the world on fire for a while now. I'm slow to the dance with it and playing with a slightly different case than most that have been doing so well with them to date but I see no reason a 22 ARC, aka, 22 Grendel won't shoot with em. Not limited to AR15 pressures, this sucker should flat zip them along. I'm told 3,900 is feasible but I have no data yet. I'm guessing I'm at about 3700- 3800 right now though and it's shooting very well. That's pretty impressive if I can get even close to 3900 though. Whatever the speed, I can tell I'm close to the top end with LT32. Still a little room...no bolt lift issues just yet but a very faint ejector mark in a Borden BR action. It may be that the new brass, while forming, is a tad short and the ejector mark might be related to that. We'll see soon. I'll be posting on it as I progress. Should be fun!

 

[Mulligan]

Where might one find a 22 Talldog sizing die?

Forster

My Talldog has 40 degree shoulders, so I asked the good folks at Forster to shorten a BRA die. They were happy to help

A “normal” Talldog has 30 degree shoulders so a shortened br die would wor

CW

 

[The boogalorian]

Anxious to hear real world experience with a 22ARC bolt gun.

I expect to have it in hand sometime in July from my smith. I will likely start another thread to avoid hijacking Evans thread.

 

[Evan]

I expect to have it in hand sometime in July from my smith. I will likely start another thread to avoid hijacking Evans thread.

I don’t mind but it will probably be found more easily and searchable in its own thread.

 

[nakneker]

Keep it coming Evan, good stuff!

 

[Evan]

I felt like a little change of pace and threaded my 7.7 twist 22BR barrel back on. This barrel has about 1400rnds on it, and I've been wanting to play around some with Shooters World Long Rifle and IMR-4350 to see how they do.

Grasslands were windy but warm. I set up at 500 yards, as usual and shot these:

These are all mild loads and I think they are running in the low 2900s (no chrono data). The red 30.6gn SWLR group is 1.131" and the purple 31.8gn IMR-4350 group is 1.565". The light blue "-2" 5-shot group with SWLR is 2.152". None of these are tuned loads or what this barrel is known to like, but it is a nice reality check against the 22 PPC to make sure me and the rifle system are somewhat consistent.

I'm getting antsy for Jim to finish my 222 barrel! August nationals in Deep Creek will be here all too soon.

 

[ASbobcat]

Forster

My Talldog has 40 degree shoulders, so I asked the good folks at Forster to shorten a BRA die. They were happy to help

A “normal” Talldog has 30 degree shoulders so a shortened br die would wor

CW

Thanks.

I have had Forster shave .005, but didn't know how much they would/could do.

 

[Evan]

A present arrived. Let's go!!!

 

[ASbobcat]

In case anyone is interested in longevity at these speeds: I have 4 reloads on this Norma 22 PPC brass and all of it is in good shape. These loads are hot though they aren’t loosening primer pockets or expanding the case head enough to affect sizing and smooth chambering. I’ll definitely report if or when the brass wears out. If it’s like my 22BR, that day may not come for many years.

Any updates on how your Norma 22PPC brass is holding up?

 

[Evan]

Any updates on how your Norma 22PPC brass is holding up?

Only 6 reloads but everything is still fine. I suspect it is going to last at this pressure level without any issues but will report back as the barrel ages. I put the barrel on the shelf until August nationals at deep creek.

The 222 barrel had to go back for a fix, so that’s been on pause too.