22 PPC and 222 for 1000yd BR

[nakneker]

I also placed a backorder for some Alpha 6 PPC brass. Looking forward to seeing what it brings to the table when necked down to 22 PPC. I'll post up measurements, capacity, etc. when it arrives but feel free to put in requests!

Thanks again for sharing Evan, fun!

I hope that Alpha 6 PPC brass is good, I have one built on a Sako 75 I’d like to try it in.

 

[Evan]

Left to right at same light jam point about 0.018" into the lands: Berger 80 VLD, 85.5 LRHT, 90 VLD in virgin Norma brass. Excited to see how they do this weekend!

 

[Evan]

Well, I took the two rifles out today and the wind was positively savage. Pulled the stakes holding my pop up down out of the ground a couple times, and I could feel the gusts pushing my bench. Forecast was for 9mph with 13mph gusts, but the wind storm that was supposed to arrive in the afternoon probably arrived early with "30mph" gusts. Regardless, it was 60 degrees, sunny, and I managed some excellent groups between gusts!

The good stuff first:

there's that 28gns of Varget again!

 

[Evan]

And then the mediocre:


Well, maybe I need to get some more 85.5 Bergers: I seem to have found a barrel that kind of prefers them!

 

[Evan]

Windy with a lot of gusting up to 15mph or so, chilly at only 50, but the sun felt warm! Today I had a mission to evaluate if I thought the 90 VLD or 85.5 from Berger shoot better than the 90 SMK and justify purchasing a supply, since everything is in stock right now:

These results match what I "feel" about the results I have been getting. At almost 2x the cost, the Bergers have not been delivering better groups. Note that 27.9gns of Varget with the 90 VLD in the 22 PPC is a hot load with a stiff bolt lift. The 23.5gn load of IMR-4320 and 90 VLD is a too-hot load for the 222; stiff bolt lift and ejector smears.

I also have been "depleting" my last pound of IMR-4895, and got some pretty respectable results today for the first time with this powder in these two guns:

 

[Evan]

Between work, a newborn baby girl that joined our family last month, and cold windy winter weather, I haven't been shooting in months until today. Weather was lovely mid 60s and breezy with intermittent clouds.

My wife and the inlaws got me a Garmin for Christmas and today was it's maiden voyage. It lives up to the hype. Really easy to use! Today was mostly knocking the dust off, but I wanted to share a ladder I did with IMR-3031 that reached what I'd say is max pressure at 25.1gns and 2850fps:

I'm liking it! I also figured folks might like to see what I mean when I say IMR-3031:

My dad thinks that my Grandpa bought this keg somewhere in the late 60s. No rust and it smells fine but there are only a few pounds left now. So all that said; don't use my 3031 loads without appropriate caution. I doubt the 3031 of today or made anytime recent is a drop in replacement for my powder that is at least 60 years old!

 

[ELR LVR]

I have two barrels coming, one for each of my Bordens, that I am going to be experimenting with this year. One is a 22 PPC and the other is a 222. Both are being throated out to 0.100" to get this kind of a seating depth for the 90 SMK:

View attachment 1520143
Left to Right: 22BR, 22PPC, 90SMK, 222 all at a "touch" in a 0.100 freebore chamber.

I've been shooting the 22BR for years now, and I am really pleased with the 90SMK for 1000yd BR. The 22BR has way more capacity than is needed to reach the good nodes with this bullet. Across a couple 28" long HV barrels, I've noticed these bullets tend to like ~2750-2780, 2830-2850, 2910-2950, and 3050-3080 or so. The top speed is easy to reach with a 22BR and have capacity still on the table to go faster, but I've never had that node shoot better than the 2910-2950 node.

So an idea started circling my thoughts last year: will less capacity yield more consistent performance at the nodes I prefer to run? Playing around with GRT, I honed in on a 22 PPC as the right capacity to explore the 2900 node, with GRT saying many different powders would put me at 58ksi around 2980fps. Seems like it will have enough power to safely hit that low-mid 2900 node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

But my brain continued to churn. Last year, I had vertical showing up in my 22BR when I shot at the low node of 2760fps on that barrel, but even still, it was shooting 5-6" groups at 1000 and would shoot just under an inch at 600yds in practice. I really wanted to explore shooting the 90 SMK at that speed, but the 223 is known to struggle with consistency at 1000yds. Back to GRT and a very attractive possibility emerged. The 222, with many of the same powders as the 22 PPC, should max out in the high 2700fps and just get me to that low node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

I plan to post up results as I get them, but wanted to share this picture since I was playing and getting ready today.

You are a brave man!

 

[jelenko]

That is FLAT!

 

[Evan]

That is FLAT!

Haha! I found what passes for a hill and put my target in front of it.

 

[Bugger Picker1]

I have two barrels coming, one for each of my Bordens, that I am going to be experimenting with this year. One is a 22 PPC and the other is a 222. Both are being throated out to 0.100" to get this kind of a seating depth for the 90 SMK:

View attachment 1520143
Left to Right: 22BR, 22PPC, 90SMK, 222 all at a "touch" in a 0.100 freebore chamber.

I've been shooting the 22BR for years now, and I am really pleased with the 90SMK for 1000yd BR. The 22BR has way more capacity than is needed to reach the good nodes with this bullet. Across a couple 28" long HV barrels, I've noticed these bullets tend to like ~2750-2780, 2830-2850, 2910-2950, and 3050-3080 or so. The top speed is easy to reach with a 22BR and have capacity still on the table to go faster, but I've never had that node shoot better than the 2910-2950 node.

So an idea started circling my thoughts last year: will less capacity yield more consistent performance at the nodes I prefer to run? Playing around with GRT, I honed in on a 22 PPC as the right capacity to explore the 2900 node, with GRT saying many different powders would put me at 58ksi around 2980fps. Seems like it will have enough power to safely hit that low-mid 2900 node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

But my brain continued to churn. Last year, I had vertical showing up in my 22BR when I shot at the low node of 2760fps on that barrel, but even still, it was shooting 5-6" groups at 1000 and would shoot just under an inch at 600yds in practice. I really wanted to explore shooting the 90 SMK at that speed, but the 223 is known to struggle with consistency at 1000yds. Back to GRT and a very attractive possibility emerged. The 222, with many of the same powders as the 22 PPC, should max out in the high 2700fps and just get me to that low node. So I ordered a barrel, brass, and dies and got it in the queue.

I plan to post up results as I get them, but wanted to share this picture since I was playing and getting ready today.

I

I forgot to mention that barrel heat is noticeably reduced with the 22 PPC compared to the 22BR. A quick 9-shot ladder of 3 charge weights barely changes the barrel temp. I am curious if it will heat up noticeably faster when I get up near max pressure.

Evan, for what it's worth I think that you are on the right track. There are no 1,000 yard Benchrest ranges with in 1,000 miles of me and I have never been to a 1,000 match anywhere. At least 8 or 9 years ago after seeing the article on Vol Doc's PD kill at over 1,000 yards. I already had a 20 Practical and Kindlers book Terrific 20s. I am in SE so Shilen has always been my barrel vender. Until my smith recommended a Lilja for my 20 Practical project. Todd used Douglas barrels so I asked him about them and told him what I wanted to do. Todd told me to call Douglas and talk to Tim the owner that he was shooting a 20 Caliber in 1,000 BR. When I called they put me in touch with Stan. This was Just before Berger quit making the 50 and the 55 gr. 20 call bullets for a while. Stan said they had switched to a 20 Dasher so they could use a barrel with less twist rate. I also think that Stan said at the faster velocity let them use less built in MOA.
I sent an Email to them a week ago because I saw an old post on here by Stan and he was using a 20-250 at that time. The reply was that Stan had passed away, Tim had retired and no one there was shooting any competition. That being said you might want to think about the need to drive them faster. Good Luck, I loe under dogs!

 

[RegionRat]

a newborn baby girl that joined our family last month

Wow! Congrats and Best Wishes for the new little girl!!!

 

[urbanrifleman]

At almost 2x the cost, the Bergers have not been delivering better groups.

That is very good info.

What a great bunch of information on this thread. Just curious, what velocity range do you think shoots the best with the 90 smk?

 

[Evan]

That is very good info.

What a great bunch of information on this thread. Just curious, what velocity range do you think shoots the best with the 90 smk?

I think 2930fps seems the best. Sometimes that stretches up to 2960. By the time it drops to 2910 it is losing the magic, at least in 28” HV barrels.

There is definitely something at 2840-2860 and 2760-2780ish too, but the 2930 (28gns of varget in the PPC, or 30gns in a 22BR) is the best.

 

[Ramblerman]

I think 2930fps seems the best. Sometimes that stretches up to 2960. By the time it drops to 2910 it is losing the magic, at least in 28” HV barrels.

There is definitely something at 2840-2860 and 2760-2780ish too, but the 2930 (28gns of varget in the PPC, or 30gns in a 22BR) is the best.

Awesome my man and congrats on the new baby girl!!!

 

[ASbobcat]

Fantastic information. Thank you.

How are the primer pockets holding up on the Norma 222 brass?

What is Norma loaded neck OD?

Appreciate it.

 

[Evan]

Fantastic information. Thank you.

How are the primer pockets holding up on the Norma 222 brass?

What is Norma loaded neck OD?

Appreciate it.

Pockets are strong. I can't say that this Norma is any softer than the Lapua that @nakneker generously gifted me. Vastly similar max speeds are accomplished, and both loosen up quickly when approaching max loads compared to PPC and BR cases, which more gradually loosen and can give you more warning.

Unturned, 0.248-0.249 with an 85.5gn LRHT. The 90 SMK is a hair fatter, leading to a 1/2 thou larger OD.

And the necks all fall pretty close to spot on 0.0120"

 

[ASbobcat]

Pockets are strong. I can't say that this Norma is any softer than the Lapua that @nakneker generously gifted me. Vastly similar max speeds are accomplished, and both loosen up quickly when approaching max loads compared to PPC and BR cases, which more gradually loosen and can give you more warning.

Unturned, 0.248-0.249 with an 85.5gn LRHT. The 90 SMK is a hair fatter, leading to a 1/2 thou larger OD.
View attachment 1640406
And the necks all fall pretty close to spot on 0.0120"
View attachment 1640408

Excellent information. Thanks for your time to provide that.

I had a 22BR, and have had sellers remorse ever since. Nothing beats the Lapua BR case for durability.

 

[Evan]

I made a new stock for the 222. This one is made of Lowe's lumber laminated together, and a series of fiascos means that it's a real looker. This is about as close as you can get and have it look ok.

That said, it tracks well and rides low down in the bags, very similar to the orange rifle.

I'm liking the Garmin, but I have a habit of forgetting to leave the Shot List and go back to the main screen before continuing shooting, and then it doesn't capture any shots. Operator error, but I really kind of wish it could sit in the shot list and just update with the new shots as they come in.

Wind was ferocious today, gusting up to 15-17mph from a 7mph base. But it was very warm at 70 degrees. Mirage was pretty heavy, but pretty communicative about what was happening, when I paid enough attention to it.

Please bear with me on these targets. I realized that I packed them with a lot of info, but I'll summarize after I get them all up here:


A couple ladders with Berger 85.5gn LRHT. No node with IMR-4895 where my notes showed one to be in the past. IMR-4320 behaved pretty nicely, but you can see the wind in action. I won't kid anyone; the 222 requires you pay attention. It doesn't have much speed or BC to carry the day when you decide to go ham and stop watching the flags and mirage carefully. The speed that I run the 3-shot groups is the only thing that saved some of them from being absolutely gigantic.

Seating depth test. After a snafu with my notes, tools, or more likely baby-addled sleep-deprived brain, I couldn't track down where I was in regards to the lands and didn't want to strip the bolt and recheck, so you'll see that I am reporting my depths in comparator o-give to base today instead of my normal +/- thousandths to touch.

I noticed that some of my low and high shots that spread out some of these groups also corresponded with high and low velocity. It's not a sure thing though, because at different seating depths, it magically got tighter (size and ES). I'm going to be tracking this, as the 222 seems to have wider spreads than I'd like in both group size and ES, despite the same care being taken as with the PPC and BR, including sorting on case weight. I may start sorting the 222 by if it shots fast/hits high, or shoots slow and hits low to see if I can get this variation out of the system.

PPC ladder 90SMK with IMR-4895:

Looks pretty good - aiming at the "low node" that I've seen really shoot in the past.

 

[Evan]

And here is the 22 PPC, shooting 90 SMK at the low node, 2780ish fps:

Yehaw!

 

[ASbobcat]

Left to right at same light jam point about 0.018" into the lands: Berger 80 VLD, 85.5 LRHT, 90 VLD in virgin Norma brass. Excited to see how they do this weekend!View attachment 1593187

Do you see the dull band at 12/32 above base? That is sign of case stretching and imminent case separation.
I found exactly the same thing on my 223 brass, only it is slightly higher up. In LC NATO brass it's exactly halfway up the body. In every instance the "paper clip" feeler confirmed thinning at this point.
This is one of the major issues with 23deg shoulders, and why I designed the 22Tactical with a 30deg shoulder.