22 LR Bullet Sorting

[watercam]

Personally? I used to shoot SK or Wolf and sorted with rim tool. Found it was worth the expense (for me) to shoot RWS Special Match or Target for practice and R50 for matches to 200 yds. and be done with it. Rimfire is a training round for my Long Range centerfire matches.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Well, I have taken rimfire to a passion. I will shoot my other benchrest rifles because they are also a passion. I don't compete with anyone but myself. As for practice, you are right. This is the best way to hone your trigger control, follow through and concentration. An added plus is with bone spurs in my shoulders, there is no recoil and thus no pain. As for the cost, I am in a position that I don't really care about that. I'm not rich by any means but I have a good budget and stick to it and plenty to set aside for my shooting needs. I also have shot RWS both Match and Special Match. Found the Match bullets worked better in one rifle and Special match in another.

It is also nice to come home and not have to start reloading for the next day at the range for a change.

 

[dgeesaman]

Need to try it at 100

Only if you'll shoot to 100y.

At my visit to Lapua test center, my rifle would shoot solid groups at 50, but 1/10 shots would "fly" before it reached 100y. As in 10 shots that were 15mm at 50m became 70mm at 100m.

So yeah, if you need 100y accuracy, don't rely on 50y testing. If you don't need 100y accuracy, don't bother.

 

[rkittine]

I ordered the Neil Jones tool and look forward to starting to check my RF rounds more accurately. I have been overall length and weight sorting them.

Bob

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

At the range yesterday. This target was shot at 25 yards from my new to me Anschutz mod 54 Super Match. Ammo was Wolf Target match and was sorted according to rim thickness. These are 5 shot groups. Note the second group from the right.

Wolf Target Match Ammo, found on Ammo Seek at $65.00 a brick. I have tried a lot of different brands and found this to be the best so far. Funny it is currently being manufactured in England by Eley and is stpamed with an E on the base.

View attachment 1193142

Nick, Hate to say but even unsorted ammo should have give the same results at 25. need to test at 50

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Only if you'll shoot to 100y.

At my visit to Lapua test center, my rifle would shoot solid groups at 50, but 1/10 shots would "fly" before it reached 100y. As in 10 shots that were 15mm at 50m became 70mm at 100m.

So yeah, if you need 100y accuracy, don't rely on 50y testing. If you don't need 100y accuracy, don't bother.

It isn't the rifle so much for the cause of the 100m performance. the ammo itself is the reason for good or bad performance at 100. I have 2-lots of CX that produced 18.54mm at 100m and 20.88mm at 100m the 50m were 11mm and 12.14mm so the correlation between 50 and 100 performance goes hand in hand

Lee

 

[wkdickinson]

If you have a caliper you don't need a special tool. Take a .223 Rem. case and trim it to make sure it's square, then measure it's length. Insert a .22 LR round into the .223 case and measure it again. Subtract the case length. The difference is the rim thickness.

If you have a digital caliper you can "zero" it on the 223 case length, then there is no math, the measurement with be the rim thickness. Works good and is reasonably fast.

 

[wkdickinson]

I have recently started shooting my Anschutz 1413 w/Weaver T36 scope, at 50 yds. to get some less expensive trigger time. Let me tell you, it has been a humbling experience! I first tried to find an ammo in the $5-$7/box range that shot best and out of the 10 or so brands I tried the RWS "Target Rifle" Sport grouped the best, with 3 or 4 in a tight cluster and one flyer. So I order two bricks of it from Champions Choice.

I've been working on my bench technique and am getting tighter groups, but still getting flyers. So after reading a lot about sorting, a couple days ago I took a random box of the RWS and did both a weight and rim thickness study on the 50 rounds (I know that is probably not statistically valid). I weighed to .0005 (GemPro 500) and round up or down to the nearest .001. I measured to .0005" (Mitutoyo Absolute caliper) then rounded to the nearest .001". Here is what I found:



Yesterday was a very calm day so I went to the range to test the various rim thicknesses. The .042 shot best and .043 next best. Both shot groups that were a bit tighter than unsorted, with noticeably fewer flyers, but still not nearly as good as I would expect from the rifle.

I next plan to install a Harrell's Tuner and see if I can "tune" this ammo in. I also just had the rifle pillar bedded by Alex Sitman at Master Class Stocks, so I may play with the torque on the actions screws before I install the tuner. According to Alex that can have a significant effect.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Nick, Hate to say but even unsorted ammo should have give the same results at 25. need to test at 50

Lee

Lee
In my opinion and through my tests, that is not true. At 25 yards, there is little chance of wind or other interference involved. Many other ammo I tested at that distance had flyers. While no as severe as they would be at 50 yards, they were still flyers. I have tested in the neighborhood of 20 different ammos from the most expensive to the middle of the road. I have narrowed down to a few to take out to 50 yards. After that I will then move to 100 yards. As I am retired, I can go to the range as many times as I like so testing is interesting to me and a way to enjoy life a bet. I am lucky, in that my wife is understanding and is always glad to see me enjoy myself. Last week, I even talked to her for a few minutes and she seems like a very nice girl, even at 78 years old.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I have recently started shooting my Anschutz 1413 w/Weaver T36 scope, at 50 yds. to get some less expensive trigger time. Let me tell you, it has been a humbling experience! I first tried to find an ammo in the $5-$7/box range that shot best and out of the 10 or so brands I tried the RWS "Target Rifle" Sport grouped the best, with 3 or 4 in a tight cluster and one flyer. So I order two bricks of it from Champions Choice.

I've been working on my bench technique and am getting tighter groups, but still getting flyers. So after reading a lot about sorting, a couple days ago I took a random box of the RWS and did both a weight and rim thickness study on the 50 rounds (I know that is probably not statistically valid). I weighed to .0005 (GemPro 500) and round up or down to the nearest .001. I measured to .0005" (Mitutoyo Absolute caliper) then rounded to the nearest .001". Here is what I found:

View attachment 1193369

Yesterday was a very calm day so I went to the range to test the various rim thicknesses. The .042 shot best and .043 next best. Both shot groups that were a bit tighter than unsorted, with noticeably fewer flyers, but still not nearly as good as I would expect from the rifle.

I next plan to install a Harrell's Tuner and see if I can "tune" this ammo in. I also just had the rifle pillar bedded by Alex Sitman at Master Class Stocks, so I may play with the torque on the actions screws before I install the tuner. According to Alex that can have a significant effect.

If the rifle is in the original TH stock, cast off will be what you need to watch out for, as the rifle will not track straight back. on screw torque I suggest 44-45-inch and leave it be. at that torque you should hear almost a ringing sound when you tap the barrel.

As for using a tuner, just keep in mind trying to get low end ammo to shoot like mid to top match ammo will be frustrating and nearly impossible unless you find some stuff that just so happens to be really good.
a tuner is to extract that last bit of accuracy from the barrel and when tuning using the best shooting ammo will give the best results. this why IMO a lot of guys try tuners and get frustrated as it won't do what they thought it should.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee
In my opinion and through my tests, that is not true. At 25 yards, there is little chance of wind or other interference involved. Many other ammo I tested at that distance had flyers. While no as severe as they would be at 50 yards, they were still flyers. I have tested in the neighborhood of 20 different ammos from the most expensive to the middle of the road. I have narrowed down to a few to take out to 50 yards. After that I will then move to 100 yards. As I am retired, I can go to the range as many times as I like so testing is interesting to me and a way to enjoy life a bet. I am lucky, in that my wife is understanding and is always glad to see me enjoy myself. Last week, I even talked to her for a few minutes and she seems like a very nice girl, even at 78 years old.

My wife gets disappointed if I stay home on my normal range days!

Lee

 

[wkdickinson]

If the rifle is in the original TH stock, cast off will be what you need to watch out for, as the rifle will not track straight back. on screw torque I suggest 44-45-inch and leave it be. at that torque you should hear almost a ringing sound when you tap the barrel.

As for using a tuner, just keep in mind trying to get low end ammo to shoot like mid to top match ammo will be frustrating and nearly impossible unless you find some stuff that just so happens to be really good.
a tuner is to extract that last bit of accuracy from the barrel and when tuning using the best shooting ammo will give the best results. this why IMO a lot of guys try tuners and get frustrated as it won't do what they thought it should.

Lee

Thanks! It is in the "Super Match" stock. I will try torquing the action screws to 45 inch pounds to see what effect that has. I also ordered two boxes each, Lapua Center-X, Midas+ and Eley Tenex this morning. It will be interesting to see how much different it really is in my rifle.

I will hold off on the tuner - thanks for the advise on that.

 

[wkdickinson]

I see that Nick is sorting into .005" groups. The RWS I am working with would pretty much all fall into one group, so there would be little point in sorting. I am sorting to .001 (rounding up at.0005, my calipers only read to 5 ten thousandths). What criteria is normally used to group?

 

[redrockranger]

If i remember correctly this very topic has been discussed in detail at Rimfire Central. I think you'll see many that say rim sorting is a waste of time. There is a reason Lapua Exact is $25 give or take a $,when compared to Center X.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

If i remember correctly this very topic has been discussed in detail at Rimfire Central. I think you'll see many that say rim sorting is a waste of time. There is a reason Lapua Exact is $25 give or take a $,when compared to Center X.

As a general rule more cost will give better results when it involves ammo. but you still need to lot test, I have 3- lots of X-act that does not shoot better than any lot of CX I have. I have one lot of CX that did a 20-shot group that measured under .200 ctc and 0.363 oto thats 9.22mm, if I didn't know what it was, I would think it was X-act.

Lee

 

[manitou210]

G3 Ogive measure works for me, I check rim thickness first

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

G3 Ogive measure works for me, I check rim thickness first

That is the only way to measure. once you find a lot that shoots really good measure a box and see what the average length was.
I did lot testing that way and every lot that measured to what my rifles like it tested good.
a suggestion if you want even more accurate measured length switch to a digital indicator.

Lee

 

[Whisky Tahoe Foxtrot]

For Sorting/testing consider velocity. I noticed my rifle prefers a particular velocity but the results didn't start to emerge till 100yd & 200 yd. It seemed to matter more than case head sorting in my case anyway.

 

[Twicepop]

I have a Neil Jones tool and it is very quick and easy to use. You can also use a 6BR case and calipers. But the tool is the way to go. I have a buddy that has a setup that uses a dial indicator but it is soooo slow

A while back, I think it was in Precision Shooting a had story about verifying the head spacing of .22 rim fire ammo. The article said that since the .22 round head spaces on the rim that variations in accuracy occur because of variations in rim thickness. The writer (a BR 50 shooter) said that he used a (at the time) Stoney Point, now Hornady bullet length comparator with the 6MM insert in it. He said that just drop the round into it and measure the OAL of the whole thing with the round in it and segregate the ammo by rim thickness and his groups tightened up measurably.

 

[BenPerfected]

If i remember correctly this very topic has been discussed in detail at Rimfire Central. I think you'll see many that say rim sorting is a waste of time. There is a reason Lapua Exact is $25 give or take a $,when compared to Center X.

+1