22 hornet way over pressure

[brokeasajoke]

Loaded some 22 k hornet for the first time and didn't really go to good. Crushed necks on seating but I got that figured out as I twist the case till the bullet starts. Next was blown primers which I have never experienced until now. Load was a half grain under hodgdon minimum load. Didn't shoot these over a chrono but they were rockin'. Sounded like I touched off a .223. Load is lilgun 12gr, sierra 1385 40gr hp, s&b brass, and cci primers at col of 1.820. Hodgdon says to load 1.9 on a nosler bt but the sierra bullet would probably fall out on that. A sharpie on bullet says I'm not touching lands at 1.820. I am not after speed at all. Should I drop to 10gr and work up. Wonder if it's the s&b case capacity? 12gr is almost to the necks.

 

[lawman29]

Rifle?

 

[brokeasajoke]

Rifle?

Oops. Ruger m77/22 reamed k

 

[SeabeeKen]

Loaded some 22 k hornet for the first time and didn't really go to good. Crushed necks on seating but I got that figured out as I twist the case till the bullet starts. Next was blown primers which I have never experienced until now. Load was a half grain under hodgdon minimum load. Didn't shoot these over a chrono but they were rockin'. Sounded like I touched off a .223. Load is lilgun 12gr, sierra 1385 40gr hp, s&b brass, and cci primers at col of 1.820. Hodgdon says to load 1.9 on a nosler bt but the sierra bullet would probably fall out on that. A sharpie on bullet says I'm not touching lands at 1.820. I am not after speed at all. Should I drop to 10gr and work up. Wonder if it's the s&b case capacity? 12gr is almost to the necks.

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Interesting. I ran Hodgdon's min load (12 gr) in the standard hornet for that bullet in GRT and came up with 65,000 psi. 10.5 gr would have been just under max in standard hornet according to GRT. Might want to call Hodgdon.

 

[Hoot]

Was this from a bottle or jug of Lil Gun you have successfully loaded up before? I have done literally thousands of 450 Bushmaster loads over the past 11 years and Lil Gun is the go-to powder for it. Never bought more than a pound at a time as my resources were limited and the local reloading store always had plenty in stock. (thing of the past) I have loaded up recipes that were not pushing the boundaries and with a long successful track record using a new bottle of Lil Gun, only to have them come in so hot that I had to sometimes abort ladder tests after the first rung. That's why I ask

Hoot

 

[brokeasajoke]

Brand new 1lb bottle I got last week from the LGS he got in the prior week.

Was this from a bottle or jug of Lil Gun you have successfully loaded up before? I have done literally thousands of 450 Bushmaster loads over the past 11 years and Lil Gun is the go-to powder for it. Never bought more than a pound at a time as my resources were limited and the local reloading store always had plenty in stock. (thing of the past) I have loaded up recipes that were not pushing the boundaries and with a long successful track record using a new bottle of Lil Gun, only to have them come in so hot that I had to sometimes abort ladder tests after the first rung. That's why I ask

Hoot

 

[PigButtons]

I have some experience with Lil'Gun in 22K Hornet and what you are seeing is common. Some bottles you can fill to the neck with no problems, the next bottle will blow the primer with everything else in the load being the same. Worse than that is Lil'Gun hates being loaded light. If there's too much empty space you can have over pressure as well. I've found that there is about .5 gn window with some lots where others have 2 gn window.
I've moved to TCM for my K Hornets and use the Lil'Gun for the 357 mag rifles, where it is stellar. TCM seems to be made for the Hornet sized rounds and so far lot to lot variation is not a problem.

 

[Jackal2016]

Looks like small pistol primers were used. Wouldn't small rifle primers be more appropriate?
The screen shot of the load data uses SRP.

 

[Conaso]

I have a M1885 highwalI in .22Hornet. I use Rem brass, CCI SPP, Hornady 40gr V-max, with 13.0gr Lil-Gun - no problems.

You have leaks at the side of the primer pocket. Did you uniform the primer pocket? Maybe the primer pocket is distorted.

 

[MGYSGT]

I only use Small Rifle Mag primers in my Hornet. I don't load hot but shoot 35 grain Hornady and they are great.

 

[Tommie]

Looks like small pistol primers were used. Wouldn't small rifle primers be more appropriate?
The screen shot of the load data uses SRP.

Whoa!!! Good catch there

 

[lawman29]

Weigh some S&B cases. Compare to weight of Winchester cases. If S&B cases heavier generally less capacity.
I have a 218 Mashburn bee, Winchester cases 7 gr heavier than Hornady, higher pressure/velocity with same charge.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Looks like small pistol primers were used. Wouldn't small rifle primers be more appropriate?
The screen shot of the load data uses SRP.

Yes spp were used

I have a M1885 highwalI in .22Hornet. I use Rem brass, CCI SPP, Hornady 40gr V-max, with 13.0gr Lil-Gun - no problems.

You have leaks at the side of the primer pocket. Did you uniform the primer pocket? Maybe the primer pocket is distorted.

No I didn't uniform.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Weigh some S&B cases. Compare to weight of Winchester cases. If S&B cases heavier generally less capacity.
I have a 218 Mashburn bee, Winchester cases 7 gr heavier than Hornady, higher pressure/velocity with same charge.

I've got some winchester and I will do that.

 

[dellet]

Small pistol primers are the go to primer for many Hornet shooters. I use Rem 1 1/2's because they seem to work the best for me and they show pressure very early. In fact Remington warn against using them in loads over 35,000 psi and specifically against some cartridges like 40S&W, 357 Sig 357 mag..

It seems that SAAMI pressures have increased over the years, I remember(right or wrong) it as a 35,000 cup cartridge and it is now listed as 43,000, Maybe that's why so many people now are complaining about split necks.

Not a Lil'gun fan here for many of the same reasons listed above and it gains pressure/velocity spikes when cold. Very temp sensitive.

I would expect a CCI 500 to handle 40,000, so unless the pockets were loose, they were hot loads.

Backing off at least another 3/4 grain, or changing powders would be a start.

For what it's worth you might look at Nolser data compared to Hodgdon for reg 22 hornet 2 grains difference at max.

https://www.nosler.com/media/load_data_assets/pdfs/22-Hornet-40gr-version-9-0.pdf

 

[shoot4fun]

My 17 Ackley Hornet wants Rem 7 1/2 primers and, IIRC, it maxes out with less Lil Gun and 25 grain bullets that you have in you 22 K hornet.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Hornet can be loaded as pistol or rifle. I use to have a 22 Hornet in a revolver and sold it, wish I had it back it was fun to shoot. I used pistol primers but gave the buyer all my load data with it.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Wish I had different powders to try. Member Dr Jay who I got this rifle from had a load worked up with AA1680 and remington 45gr bullets. My LGS is overflowing with lilgun. Factory 35gr winchesters shoot well and I'm hoping to match thier accuracy but at $27 for 20, ouch.

 

[Jager]

The .22 Hornet/K-Hornet is a fabulous cartridge. But it can be a little finicky to load for.

Your SPP are fine. Many of us use those in lieu of SRP in the Hornet.

If you'll go to the link that dellet posted, you'll start to see some of the caution in the Hodgdon data you used as a reference. Nosler lists two different 40gr. bullets in that link. The QuickLoad database actually lists four Nosler bullets of that weight (all with different lengths). In other words, the Hodgdon data ("40 Gr. Nos BT") is not exactly specific.

The Nosler data does use an OAL different from your load. That's something to be mindful of.

I mostly use W296/H110 in my .22 Hornet, so don't have a quick comparison to your LilGun. But Nosler, Sierra, and Berger all have W296/H110 using the same, or more, charge weight compared to LilGun. So we can reasonably assume that in no instance would you ever use a higher charge weight of LilGun than W296/H110. Probably a bit less.

In my (standard) .22 Hornet - an Anschutz - I approach SAAMI max around 10.6/W296 with the Hornady 40gr. V-MAX; and around 10.8/W296 with the Berger 40gr. FB Varmint HP.

Berger lists 11.3/W296 as max in the K-Hornet. Sierra, using your bullet, lists 11.6/H110 as max in the K-Hornet.

So, yeah, I'd very much look at that Hodgdon data you referenced with a squinty eye.

If you'll double-check the length on three of your bullets (QuickLoad shows them as 0.565"); and measure the water capacity of three of your cases, I'll be happy to run a QL print for you and see what it says.

But the bottom line is you're too hot. Something you already knew!

 

[Conaso]

FYI - For small cases such as the .22Hornet, SPP, e.g., CCI SPP, Rem 6-1/2 (specifically designed for the .22 Hornet), etc., are preferred under the assumption small rifle primers are much hotter and will jump the bullet to the lands before the powder ignites because the Hornet doesn't have the neck tension to hold it.

What works for me is Rem brass (largest capacity), CCI SPP, Hornady 40gr V-max, with 13.0gr Lil-Gun gets me 3021fps in a 26" barrel. I also use a Lee Factory Crimp Die to reduce the loaded dimension by .0005" provide consistency, increase tension, and hopefully a little better ignition.