22-250 + Lapua brass = clickers on first time firing Remedy? (problem solved!)

[MikeT49]

Well maybe this explains why my Hart 22-250 with Lapua is a durnfool mess of clickers. I thought it was hot load. Time to resize it as much as possible and try a few. But this certainly explains things because I don't see my load being very warm at all. Maybe the tolerances are tighter in this combo than usual. Thanks for posting this.

Ditto on thanks for the post. My first thread on this forum was questions on my 20P. Kept getting off topic suggestions that I needed to use Lapua brass. I replied (paraphrased) with MHO that my one experience with Lapua 22-250 brass sucked. I was working up to my already established 55g load with WW brass the only change was new Lapua brass. I got to 1.5 grains below my established WW brass load and started getting a click. Did I stop? No. At 1 grain below, I had to pop the bolt open with the base of my palm. Once fired resized works fine. I ran all virgin cases through my fl die twice before initial firing. Seemed to solve the problem.

 

[BoydAllen]

Good on the shoes. I take the Ratigan approach to a die that does not do its job. Throw it in the pond.

 

[Brians356]

Re: the Forster 308 Win National Match die:

Bumping a 308 Win shoulder back does not decrease headspace; it increases headspace. "Headspace" does not describe a dimension of the case itself. Rather, it describes for a loaded chamber (per Sierra ... Edition V) "The amount of free space between the case head and the breech face in a fully closed action."
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[Uncle Ed]

Re: the Forster 308 Win National Match die:

Bumping a 308 Win shoulder back does not decrease headspace; it increases headspace. "Headspace" does not describe a dimension of the case itself. Rather, it describes for a loaded chamber (per Sierra ... Edition V) "The amount of free space between the case head and the breech face in a fully closed action."
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On the TV show Dragnet the show's opening narration: "Ladies and gentlemen: the story you are about to hear is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent."

Some of us know what cartridge headspace is and what chamber headspaces is.

When I got my Hornady case comparator it was labeled a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.

So in simple terms you have chamber headspace and cartridge headspace and people understand what you mean.

Do you have something against Forster and Hornady using simple plain language that the vast majority understand? Or were you trained by F. Guffey?

And bumping the .308 shoulder back further actually increases head clearance. "BUT" headspace is also the distance between your ears and how you use it.

Whidden 6.5 Creedmoor Case Gauge​

Item #:WHIDCSG65CRD| Manufacturer:Whidden Gunworks

Whidden Gunworks is pleased to offer Case Gauges to compliment your handloading process. The Case Gauges can be used to determine your own rifle’s headspace and whether or not it falls within SAAMI specifications. Additionally they can be used to determine the headspace of factory ammunition or hand loads and see how they compare with your own chamber. The Case Gauges also can give you information on how to adjust your resizing die to give the optimum amount of shoulder setback during sizing.


No cartridge headspace was hurt or injured in the making of this posting.

 

[Brians356]

Do you have something against Forster and Hornady using simple plain language

Only when the language is incorrect. But, I don't lose my mind over it. In simple plain language, bumping back the shoulder increases headspace.
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[Uncle Ed]

Only when the language is incorrect. But, I don't lose my mind over it. In simple plain language, bumping back the shoulder increases headspace.
-

 

[Brians356]

 

[HPC]

Case	Brand	0.200
22-250 Remington	Winchester	0.4616
22-250 Remington	PPU	0.4669
22-250 Remington	Lapua - new	0.4659

 

[Shinbone]

HPC - Thanks for the great info! Winchester is looking better and better for my rifle. Glad I got some on order.

 

[Shinbone]

update:

Got new Winchester brass in the other day. Loaded some up with IMR 4064 and Berger 52gn bullets, and spent this afternoon at the range.

Case head diameters are:

Lapua virgin = .466 Lapua 1x fired = .467

Win virgin = .462 Win 1x fired = .464

AND, best of all, no clickers with the Winchester brass! Hooray!

Next question, now, is to see how many firings I can get out of the Winny brass.

edited on 12-4-20 to add:

Prvi virgin = .463

Nosler virgin = .4625

 

[jackieschmidt]

Every Lapua Case I have ever measured is larger at the Web than any other brand of brass.

There is a way you can modify a die so it has the web harder, but it takes a Lathe and carbide tooling.
You chuck up a full length sizing die and bore the shoulder out of it. You will be left with a die with nothing but the tapered body. Using a arbor press, you push the case all the way flush. Using a punch from the other side, you can push it out.

I have made these for my PPC and BR cases. It works.

 

[STS]

Every Lapua Case I have ever measured is larger at the Web than any other brand of brass.

There is a way you can modify a die so it has the web harder, but it takes a Lathe and carbide tooling.
You chuck up a full length sizing die and bore the shoulder out of it. You will be left with a die with nothing but the tapered body. Using a arbor press, you push the case all the way flush. Using a punch from the other side, you can push it out.

I have made these for my PPC and BR cases. It works.

I've done the same thing to a few dies except I turn the bottom of the die off about .030. That is about the length of the radius at the mouth of most dies. It allows the working surface of the die to be closer the shell holder. It works well.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Sig brass 0.4615 new brass
Out of my 22-250, Manson reamer 0.025 freebore(only alteration) 0.4625-0.04630 this has been fired several times.
My RCBS fl sized brass(-0.002 from go gage comparator length) brass is 0.462. No clicks new brass or sized brass. I'm running near max by powder company supplied data with a couple of different powders, although I mostly shoot the rifle in cool/cold weather.
All measurements made with a digital micrometer, marking the individual cases. I couldn't find anything laying around 0.200 thick. May have to have a machinist friend make something. I think you could add Sig brass to your component list.

 

[TAJ45]

Only when the language is incorrect. But, I don't lose my mind over it. In simple plain language, bumping back the shoulder increases headspace.
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Shinbone,

Also, best to use a micrometer unless you have checked your electronic caliper with gauge blocks, ignore the name on the caliper for this kind of tight work. I have two top name electronic calipers that vary from -.0005-+.0015 over the range of the caliper, this is an expensive lesson learned.

So, you getting some use out of thise blocks, eh? Big grin......

 

[Shinbone]

So, you getting some use out of those blocks, eh? Big grin......

I did check my calipers using Starrett 1" and 2" calibration gauges. The 1" gauge measured .9995", and the 2" gauge measured 1.9995" on my Mitutoyo calipers. Nice to know "I am in the ball park."

Starrett Micrometer Standard Set with Insulated Handle and Spherical Ends - Ideal for Checking Precision Measuring Tools, 1",2" Set Lengths, 1/4" Diameter, 2-Pack - S234C: Calibration Standard Rods: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Starrett Micrometer Standard Set with Insulated Handle and Spherical Ends - Ideal for Checking Precision Measuring Tools, 1",2" Set Lengths, 1/4" Diameter, 2-Pack - S234C: Calibration Standard Rods: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[AckleymanII]

Case	Brand	0.200
22-250 Remington	Winchester	0.4616
22-250 Remington	PPU	0.4669
22-250 Remington	Lapua - new	0.4659

I don't know how many times I have Been through this with people over the years.

Lapua
Norma
PPU

All take a CIP(European) chamber reamer, and the brass is too large in the Web for a SAAMI(American)chamber.

Shaving brass off with extra small sizers using Lapua brass is not much of an option. The fix is American made brass, Remington, Winchester, Federal, and SIG.