22 250 9 twist doesn't like long bullets

[ranger3]

Anyone have any ideas as to why my 9 twist 22 250 @88 yds shoots these three shot groups Factory Varmageddon .72 inch, 70 speer handload .5 inch, 50 Hornady Vmax factory 1.1 inch, 75 AMAX handload 2.3 inches (this loads shoots under .5 moa to 1k in another of my rifles). Rifle was cleaned between each 3 shot group, cleaning indicated very little copper. Most of these groups showed vertical leanings. I didn't really buy a 9 twist to shoot 50 and 55 gr. Bullets. Rifle only has 32 rounds down tube.

 

[Clancy]

32 rounds and you are drawing conclusions?

Try the 75 a max (or better yet go ahead and switch to the ELD) over a fairly wide range of seating depths, find one that’s the best, and then test powder.

How sure are you it’s a 1:9?

32 rounds is no time to give up.... perhaps the most accurate rifle I own or ever will required testing several bullets and powders before cooperating.

 

[284winner]

Anyone have any ideas as to why my 9 twist 22 250 @88 yds shoots these three shot groups Factory Varmageddon .72 inch, 70 speer handload .5 inch, 50 Hornady Vmax factory 1.1 inch, 75 AMAX handload 2.3 inches (this loads shoots under .5 moa to 1k in another of my rifles). Rifle was cleaned between each 3 shot group, cleaning indicated very little copper. Most of these groups showed vertical leanings. I didn't really buy a 9 twist to shoot 50 and 55 gr. Bullets. Rifle only has 32 rounds down tube.

2.3" at 88 yards with 75 amax in a 9 twist 22-250 ??? I don't care which powder your running or what seating depth, if your doing everything correctly when shooting for groups, something else is not right. The other .5/.75 and 1.1 is not way out of whack when developing groups. Especially a couple factory loads. The Amax handload is odd at 2.3". I do not believe it's a powder load issue. I'm no gunsmith but would say check all scope bases, mounts and scope for problems. Then maybe the barrels crown. If it's a factory barrel who knows. If it's an aftermarket barrel, it sounds odd that you cannot shoot groups better that 2.3/1.1.

 

[ranger3]

Thanks for your input. The 70 grain Speer load is a load I use in my lrpv 22-250 Savage if shoots under .5 M away consistently all the way out to 1K. The Armageddon and Hornady Factory loads both shot vertically in those groups. Although the scope I have on it has been used in other rifles I will try another scope because I need to exclude that as the likely issue. All screws and Etc have been double check, point of aim is consistent. The rifle is a new Bergara b14 HMR and this is the second one. The first one didn't shoot anything under 2 inches at 100 yards. I have run a dry patch down the barrel and it comes out at a 1 in 9 twist.

 

[284winner]

Thanks for your input. The 70 grain Speer load is a load I use in my lrpv 22-250 Savage if shoots under .5 M away consistently all the way out to 1K. The Armageddon and Hornady Factory loads both shot vertically in those groups. Although the scope I have on it has been used in other rifles I will try another scope because I need to exclude that as the likely issue. All screws and Etc have been double check, point of aim is consistent. The rifle is a new Bergara b14 HMR and this is the second one. The first one didn't shoot anything under 2 inches at 100 yards. I have run a dry patch down the barrel and it comes out at a 1 in 9 twist.

Hard to argue with the manufacturers specs on their rifles barrel twist. How fast are you pushing those 75 amax bullets ?

 

[ronemus]

The 75 A-Max needs a 1:7 twist for best performance and 1:9 is much too slow. The Hornady 75 ge BTHP will work well from a 1:9 and probably has the highest BC that will work from that twist.

 

[284winner]

In a 223, that is correct. The 7 twist is best although an 8 will in many cases work. In a 22-250 however being a larger case capacity can push the 75 amax at 3200 fps and much faster and will stabilize very easily. I've heard in some cases a 223 AI with a long barrel and 9 twist stabilizing the 75s. The standard saami 22-250 win should easily stabilize the 75 amax in a 9 twist. The operative word being "should".

The 75 A-Max needs a 1:7 twist for best performance and 1:9 is much too slow. The Hornady 75 ge BTHP will work well from a 1:9 and probably has the highest BC that will work from that twist.

 

[B23]

The 75 A-Max needs a 1:7 twist for best performance and 1:9 is much too slow. The Hornady 75 ge BTHP will work well from a 1:9 and probably has the highest BC that will work from that twist.

I think you mean the 75gr Amax needs a 8 twist for best performance, there is no need for a 7 twist with any of the 75's, especially in a 22-250. In fact, the 75 grainers, including the Amax, will usually shoot just fine in a 9 twist but you may not get the maximum BC from the bullet with a 9 twist barrel.

 

[ranger3]

I think you mean the 75gr Amax needs a 8 twist for best performance, there is no need for a 7 twist with any of the 75's, especially in a 22-250. In fact, the 75 grainers, including the Amax, will usually shoot just fine in a 9 twist but you may not get the maximum BC from the bullet with a 9 twist barrel.

After rereading my post it's the 75 Amax that shoots well in another 22-250 9 twist Savage that I have and I have shot that at 1 K with good results on a relatively Wind free day. My 8 twist 223 shoots the 75 AMAX well to about 800 yds. Thanks for all your input.

 

[13red56]

Not trying to be a pain here but from reading your post. The issues I see is that you are shooting a load that works in another gun which in turn rarely ever means it will shoot in a similar gun and sometimes a load worked for one gun with a specific chamber won’t work for another gun with the exact chamber specs. A 22-250 with a 9 twist is very much capable of stabilizing a 75 Amax but more than likely you will have to do a different load work up for that gun compared to your other 22-250. As I said not trying to be a pain just my observation

 

[Clancy]

My friend, who I’ll try to get to chime in, went through 2 HMRs with numerous issues and was finally given an HMR Pro, which is a good rifle other than it can’t run anything but starting loads without blowing primers. VERY strange, but it’s been tried again and again.

I will not buy a Bergara myself, despite how well the Pro shoots.

 

[284winner]

I think you mean the 75gr Amax needs a 8 twist for best performance, there is no need for a 7 twist with any of the 75's, especially in a 22-250. In fact, the 75 grainers, including the Amax, will usually shoot just fine in a 9 twist but you may not get the maximum BC from the bullet with a 9 twist barrel.

Pretty much all depends on speed. Push it at over 3000 and stability starts to work. Exactly what number past 3000 is sometimes different with every rifle. It's around 3100 with my 22-250 but to get the most from that bullet, 3300 + seems to be best.

 

[270WinDude]

Does the HMR have a similar barrel length to the savage? Sheer curiosity. I'd keep playing with the charge on the amax bullets. I've ran the entire spectrum in my bergara b14hunter from min to max charges in .3gr increments and it certainly did open up beyond to like 1.5 when it was out of it's optimal charge ranges. I think if you did that with your amaxes it should prove at least a couple ranges with sub .5ctc groups at 100. Patience. I recently had a range trip with a loose action and scope, I was ready to toss my gun and get another I'm embarrassed to say. I will agree though it's interesting it works in one yet not the other.

 

[ranger3]

Im hoping to get to the range again this weekend, the main reason for this purchase was to get it to shoot 68-75 gr. bullets very accurately to the 300 to 500 yd range. mainly for prairie dogs. I can also do it with my 6 br. but I have a large stock of 22 bullets in the 68-75 gr. weight range. I may have to rethink my plan here. I already know I have to replace the trigger on the Bergara if I keep it. I have checked all my screws and they are tight.

 

[Clancy]

Im hoping to get to the range again this weekend, the main reason for this purchase was to get it to shoot 68-75 gr. bullets very accurately to the 300 to 500 yd range. mainly for prairie dogs. I can also do it with my 6 br. but I have a large stock of 22 bullets in the 68-75 gr. weight range. I may have to rethink my plan here. I already know I have to replace the trigger on the Bergara if I keep it. I have checked all my screws and they are tight.

Is it not the trigger tech?

 

[ranger3]

Is it not the trigger tech?

No, the Pro has the trigger tech.

 

[fredo]

Firstly, start at the start...
Good to read you did a 'Spin test' on that barrel and measure/confirm the twist rate. If you've never had a barrel mis-stamped, you'll never know!

If ya confirm twist as 1:9, then realize that a straight .22-250 may not have the 'azz' to stabilize a 75 Amax. Just sayin' some shooters get by with a 1:9, while some others don't. Could be based on environmentals, so that alone is a 'tell' that a 1:9 is not fully adequate to make a 75Amax fly...

Also, if say...3300fps is what will make a 75 fly, that speed is asking a lot of a .22-250, especially if your not running a looooooong barrel. "Improving" to an AI might allow enough performance gain to make a 75 fly right from a 1:9. But again, you're still kinda right in the edge of making it work, far as stabilizing goes...

As for getting 2-3" groups, if I have that happen, I cut my losses immediately & use a different bullet. Life's too short to try to make ONE bullet shoot! There are sooooo many bullet options out there, so don't get hung up on what doesn't work. Spend your time & focus effort on finding what does...

Good luck!

 

[topclass2017]

+1 on Fredo's comment re bullets. I couldn't get a 53 grain Hornady ELD to stabilize in my 22-250, while it has no problems with 50 grain Hornady VMax or 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. Go figure. I gave up on the ELD's after loading a few more to confirm my experience. The advice I received was that the ELD's have a longer profile that just didn't work in my rifle. No big deal; I just don't load them!

 

[ranger3]

I have a Savage 9 twist 22-250 heavy barrel that will shoot 75 Amax's and 80 grain Amax's very well all the way to 1k. Both of these shoot in 1/2 MOA or under. The 53 grain VMAX in the Savage rifle shoots in the two's. I am going to load some ammo specifically for this rifle and see if it responds to that. If it actually never wants to shoot anything above a 55 grain bullet then in my opinion it's worthless to me and I will have to see what either the dealer or Bergara will do with it. I'm comfortable that the dealer will make it right with me. At this point it's very disappointing especially with all the hype I heard about how good the Bergara is.

 

[fyrewall]

A 1-9 twist .22-.250 is probably the best compromise for most common .224 bullets. The 75 Amax is sort of at the stability edge for a 1-9, like not under all conditions - cold temperatures and heavy air. A 1-8 is a better choice for the 75 Amax. The 69 grain tipped Sierra MK might be considered.

Having had many .22-250's, some of which had 1-9 twists my favorite bullets for that twist were the 68 Hornady and 53 VMax. My newer .22-.250 barrels have 1-7.7 twists and shoot the 53 grain Vmax surprisingly well despite a SG of 3.5 plus (can't remember the exact number) and do the best with the 75 Amax and the new 75 ELD match.

As mentioned the 75 Hornady hpbt is a consideration; it is about as long as the 68 grain hpbt (plus or minus a tiny amount)

The event you described is sort of a beginning. There are possibly other factors that contributed to the results other than bullet length and twist rate.

There are various copies of the Miller twist program on line. When running the Miller program subtract the length of the bullet's plastic tip, provided there is a plastic tip.