I know this subject was addressed sometime ago, I've read the threads. I was thinking about building a bolt gun in this caliber and wanted to stick with the same theme as the 20-222, 20 Practical and 6mm-223. Did anyone successfully build one and how well did/does it shoot? What is a good starting load? I am thinking of using the lighter grain bullets only with a 12T barrel.
20-221
- Thread starter RonS
- Start date
Todd Kindler of "The Woodchuck Den" fame claims this one. .20 Var-mint Targ-et is all the rage with the sub-caliber crew. Check over at Saubier.com. I don't own one, yet, but do love the .17 Fireball.
th82457
Silver $$ Contributor
I have a .20 VT and it shoots the 32 V-Max, 35 Bergers and 39 Bk Sierra's well. It has a 1:12 twist. It appears that you just want to neck down a .221 case - but not blow out case and shoulder to VT dimensions. You will probably lose a 1-2 grains powder capacity from the VT and a little velocity, but I see no reason why it would not work. Try Lil Gun, AA1680, H4198, H322 in this and you should get fine results.
Terry
Terry
th82457, yes that's what I'm proposing, just keep it simple, gun is for target shooting. I'm not interested the fastest .20 cal on the planet. I have a 22VTT that I am not impressed with, I could never get better than 1 MOA from it. Maybe it is the barrel but my 223's that I reload shoot much better groups at a 100 yards. But maybe I'll rebarrel it to a 22BR. I am in the process of building a 20 Practical, shot a friend of mine and got hooked, very accurate and easy to load for. And I did consider the 17 Fireball also but one build at a time. Getting close to retirement and would like some inexpensive guns to shoot and pass on to the grandkids.
ab_bentley
I fix stuff, sometimes....
I don't think you can do much better than the 20VT. I am just saying if it's broke don't fix it, also this isn't near a 20VTT, don't confuse the two. Even Todd Kindler said the VTT wasn't the end result he expected..... I would opt for the 20VT and call it a day. Adam
ron, if you dont already have a 20-222 I would suggest going that route, you can load it down to 20VT performance and load it up to 4000 FPS w 32g bullets, almost matching 20tac. The real draw over 20vt is being able to use 222 lapua as the parent case by just necking it down. I have a 20 VT and wish it was a 20-222 just because the available brass is much much better.
woolenmammoth, I really do appreciate everyone's comments and $.02 worth and I hope others will continue to chime in. But I think we have gotten away from the original question or maybe I wasn't clear. I was hoping the guys who wrote the original threads that I read would chime in, I would like to know from those who have or have owned or even know someone who has a 20-221, there opinion of this cartridge as far as performance and accuracy?
The 20-222 I thought would be close to the performance of the 20 Practical, that's why I am interested in the 20-221. I have in my possesion a 20 Practical barrel, 26" Shilen SSSM 10T that I will be installing on my Savage Axis in the very near future.
Let me say in no way am I interested in any of VarTargs at this time. I have a 22VTT with a 12T that could not hold a candle to my 223's. So I've decided to have that barrel rechambered and recrowned to the 22BR.
Thanks to those who have left comments and those that will.
The 20-222 I thought would be close to the performance of the 20 Practical, that's why I am interested in the 20-221. I have in my possesion a 20 Practical barrel, 26" Shilen SSSM 10T that I will be installing on my Savage Axis in the very near future.
Let me say in no way am I interested in any of VarTargs at this time. I have a 22VTT with a 12T that could not hold a candle to my 223's. So I've decided to have that barrel rechambered and recrowned to the 22BR.
Thanks to those who have left comments and those that will.
I believe the 20VT is the best of both worlds the accuracy is close to what you'd expect from a good bench rest caliber, it bucks the wind surprisingly well with 40gr Vmax's and it is a joy to shoot and is by far the most enjoyable prairie dog round I've ever used out to 500yds. It cheap to shoot and ya get to watch your hits & misses. What not to like? Don't give me all that crap about not being able to get good brass when the one I have has shot several low .2's and enough high & mid .1's to say it wasn't just luck and all with the lightly neck turned RP brass. In fact the best five shot group it ever produced a .072 was shot by one of my friend's wife and it was the first time she had ever shot the rifle.
Merry Christmas Everyone, I hope Santa bring y'all a 20VT.
RJ
Merry Christmas Everyone, I hope Santa bring y'all a 20VT.
RJ
DogBuster
Silver $$ Contributor
My 20VT is one of my favorites...a rechambered 12 twist 204R bbl...new finished length is 25.5"...original chamber had 2500+ rds out...I have run at least that many VT rds out by now too...19/H322 & a moly 40 V max @ 3550 fps....no recoil in my 16# Savage s/shot action...Choate Varminter..Weaver 4-14 Tact...summer of '12 with confirmed p/dog kills pushing 600 yds...what is not to like ? But I'm a 20 cal slut...also having in service is a 20 PT....along with a newly built 20BR....all Savage s/shots...the 20's are where its at in the p/dog game.....
th82457
Silver $$ Contributor
Ron,
The 20 VT is based on the .221 case. The advantage over a 20-222 is less powder, less recoil and it still has very good velocity and performance. It may be the most efficient cartridge out there when it comes to velocity / performance vs. powder volume and cost to load. I have used Rem. brass and reworked Lake City military .223 brass. The Rem. shot fine - but it does not hold up to many firings, I have had brass fail as soon as 3 firngs. The reworked L.C. brass is much more durable. So my take would be to get the best brass for a straight 20-221 you may still want to rework some higher quality brass from a manufacturer other than Rem.. If you need to rework brass - then the VT may be a little better performance wise. Mine is a CZ 527 with a 22.5" long sporter contour Douglas barrel, I typically get .35" to .7" 5 shot groups at 100 yds. I have not found it to be finicky at all. It is rare to get a group over an inch. I also have a .204 Ruger in a sporter 527 - it shoots as well accuracy wise, but you lose the sight picture on firing more than the VT. The VT has virtually no recoil. I have not had very good luck with Rem. brass durability and consistancy in any caliber other than a .222 Magnum I previously owned.
Good Luck with your build,
Terry
The 20 VT is based on the .221 case. The advantage over a 20-222 is less powder, less recoil and it still has very good velocity and performance. It may be the most efficient cartridge out there when it comes to velocity / performance vs. powder volume and cost to load. I have used Rem. brass and reworked Lake City military .223 brass. The Rem. shot fine - but it does not hold up to many firings, I have had brass fail as soon as 3 firngs. The reworked L.C. brass is much more durable. So my take would be to get the best brass for a straight 20-221 you may still want to rework some higher quality brass from a manufacturer other than Rem.. If you need to rework brass - then the VT may be a little better performance wise. Mine is a CZ 527 with a 22.5" long sporter contour Douglas barrel, I typically get .35" to .7" 5 shot groups at 100 yds. I have not found it to be finicky at all. It is rare to get a group over an inch. I also have a .204 Ruger in a sporter 527 - it shoots as well accuracy wise, but you lose the sight picture on firing more than the VT. The VT has virtually no recoil. I have not had very good luck with Rem. brass durability and consistancy in any caliber other than a .222 Magnum I previously owned.
Good Luck with your build,
Terry
th82457
Silver $$ Contributor
Mr. Bentley who replied to this post previously actually sells reworked LC brass for the VT that I have purchased from him. It is weight sorted and neck turned and very uniform. To rework the LC brass you would need additional forming dies, but for my shooting I just buy from Mr. Bentley. The standard Remington .221 brass is easily formed in a standard Redding or Hornady .20 VT die and has shot well for me, just does not hold up to multiple firings in either standard .221 form or .20 VT. Either way you go on brass - you will want to shoot the VT more often than anything else - pure fun to shoot.
Terry
Terry
th82457
Silver $$ Contributor
JP,
At this point I have a few loadings on the LC brass and no signs of case failure and very little trimming after sizing. Rem. cases were suspect as soon as 2-3 firings, with splits occurring at the case necks and sometimes on the body diameter. Not due to hot rod loads, I have not found a reason to load the VT to max.
Terry
At this point I have a few loadings on the LC brass and no signs of case failure and very little trimming after sizing. Rem. cases were suspect as soon as 2-3 firings, with splits occurring at the case necks and sometimes on the body diameter. Not due to hot rod loads, I have not found a reason to load the VT to max.
Terry
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
RonS: I'm a very active varminter (Beldings Ground Squirrels/Rock Chucks), own five .20 cal varmint rifles (and ooodles of .17's & .224's). The 20VT is far and away my favorite these days for work out to 500 yards. All the previous comments are spot-on regarding the merits of the 20VT. Think of it as a small version of a PPC.
As stated, the 20VT is based on the 221FB case, but blown out to a 30* shoulder from the parent case 23* angle, so it gives slightly more powder capacity, maybe better burning characteristics, but the accuracy is stellar in every rifle so chambered I'm aware of.
Here's a comparison of the 204 Ruger and the 20VT, both loaded with 32gr SBK's:
I've been shooting 650 pcs of reformed and annealed R-P 221FB brass, some have been shot six times (neck-sized only now), and they're still going strong with tight primer pockets. Adam Bently here produces the very finest 20VT brass, reformed from LC 5.56 cases, and his brass should last virtually forever in a 20VT with any sane load.
As for accuracy, my Cooper M38 Varmint will shoot the 32gr SBK into .25" most days, and the 32gr NBT into the .3's with my usual load of 18.5gr/RL-7 @ 3,725 fps.....what's not to like? A typical target shot in the field:
And as we all love gun-porn, here's a field shot of my 20VT doing what she does best......make life difficult for the local rock chucks, and put a smile on my face, all at the same time.
See all your hits/misses, miserly on powder, very mild blast (almost could be called 'quiet'), zero felt recoil and wicked accurate. Don't confuse the 20VTT with this one.....BIG difference; Advantage: 20 VarTarg.
As stated, the 20VT is based on the 221FB case, but blown out to a 30* shoulder from the parent case 23* angle, so it gives slightly more powder capacity, maybe better burning characteristics, but the accuracy is stellar in every rifle so chambered I'm aware of.
Here's a comparison of the 204 Ruger and the 20VT, both loaded with 32gr SBK's:
I've been shooting 650 pcs of reformed and annealed R-P 221FB brass, some have been shot six times (neck-sized only now), and they're still going strong with tight primer pockets. Adam Bently here produces the very finest 20VT brass, reformed from LC 5.56 cases, and his brass should last virtually forever in a 20VT with any sane load.
As for accuracy, my Cooper M38 Varmint will shoot the 32gr SBK into .25" most days, and the 32gr NBT into the .3's with my usual load of 18.5gr/RL-7 @ 3,725 fps.....what's not to like? A typical target shot in the field:
And as we all love gun-porn, here's a field shot of my 20VT doing what she does best......make life difficult for the local rock chucks, and put a smile on my face, all at the same time.
See all your hits/misses, miserly on powder, very mild blast (almost could be called 'quiet'), zero felt recoil and wicked accurate. Don't confuse the 20VTT with this one.....BIG difference; Advantage: 20 VarTarg.
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