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Best 20 caliber barrel - LOL

Sounds like a good plan 1/10 twist will do the 40s well. Whats the LOL for? seems like a valid question you asked.
Asking what’s the best barrel in any caliber can set off an explosion of opinions. Almost like walking into a bar on Friday night and asking people what 3/4 ton truck pulls a loaded horse trailer the best. That’s where the LOL came from, thankfully this thread has remained very civil, something I like about accurateshooter, people tend to try and help and not bash. I almost got a 1/10 twist but if I remember correctly Lilja offers a 1/9 and a 1/11. Recoil/torq isn’t an issue so I went 1/9, I have a couple with a 1/11 already. Maybe the fast spin will enhance the red mist effect, we shall see.
 
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Asking what’s the best barrel in any caliber can set off an explosion of opinions. Almost like walking into a bar on Friday night and asking people what 3/4 ton truck pulls a loaded horse trailer the best. That’s where the LOL came from, thankfully this thread has remained very civil, something I like about accurateshooter, people tend to try and help and not bash. I almost got a 1/10 twist but if I remember correctly Lilja offers a 1/9 and a 1/11. Recoil/torq isn’t an issue so I went 1/9, I have a couple with a 1/11 already. Maybe the fast spin will enhance the red mist effect, we shall see.
Oh you thought you might have dropped a live grenade asking that :) Did not trigger a thing in me but yea I get it.

I choose 1/10 for my .204 ruger so I can shoot anything. I think 1/9 is a pretty good compromise for 223. How fast are you shooting from it? 1/9 should be a little better for the mist and if they don't blow in air. I would guess 3800 fps and lower you will be safe from mid air blow ups. Beyond that maybe 1/11 "might" shoot lighter bullets a tiny bit more precise. I was choosing between 1/12 and 1/10" I chose 1/10 because 1/12 seemed to be hit or miss on the 40gr bullets. I would have maybe picked 1/11 if it was offered.

In your case were you thinking "I might shoot 45gr" or was it more of I want more spin?
I remember seeing a test with 223 1/7 vs 1/9 vs 1/12 and with 55gr bullets the 1/9s and 1/12s were tighter groups vs 1/7 for the lighter weight bullets. Guess there is no free lunch on a do all twist barrel.

I just went 1/9 on a 24" 223 Varmint barrel, I don't plan on shooting anything over 3700 fps (296,000 rpm) on your gun you could exceed 300,000 rpm depending on bullet charge.
Dunno some guys might put RPM 1st and precision 2nd. They want to be on bleeding edge of the bullet almost by not quite blowing up in mid air (they better not have a suppressor)

I would probably choose twist rate first, then find a company that was good at making a barrel in that twist. I skipped quite a few companies because I did not want a 1/12 or 1/7 twist on my 223.

On a 20 cal I would think it would be 1/10, 1/11 or 1/12 I guess they made 1/9 for people that shoot ever longer bullets for the normal 32-40gr range I probably would have gone 1/11 over the 1/9. Maybe some of the less dense alloy bullets are longer.

I did notice 26gr Varmint grenades were longer (.636") than (.585") 40gr bullets.

They are not pure lead but copper/tin alloy mix. Since the are long with low BC and density a 1/9 actually stabilizes it better than a 1/11 twist. SG = 1.59 (4000 fps) 1/9 vs SG=1.06 (not stable) for 1/11 twist. At 320,000 rpm if they hold together that would be some good red mist for ya!
 
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What bullets did that?
.204 Ruger 40 grain, IIRC, either Hornady or Federal factory ammo. Handi-Rifle that others had the same issues. A friend asked me to dial it in for him. Set up a target at 50 yards. It's been a few years but I don't think it even shot 32s very well either.

 
I have the parts to build a 20 caliber rifle. I was thinking about using Hornady 40 gr V-max bullets. My barrel has an 11 inch twist. Will that twist work with those bullets?
 
In your case were you thinking "I might shoot 45gr" or was it more of I want more spin?
I remember seeing a test with 223 1/7 vs 1/9 vs 1/12 and with 55gr bullets the 1/9s and 1/12s were tighter groups vs 1/7 for the lighter weight bullets. Guess there is no free lunch on a do all twist barrel.

I just went 1/9 on a 24" 223 Varmint barrel, I don't plan on shooting anything over 3700 fps (296,000 rpm) on your gun you could exceed 300,000 rpm depending on bullet charge.
Dunno some guys might put RPM 1st and precision 2nd. They want to be on bleeding edge of the bullet almost by not quite blowing up in mid air (they better not have a suppressor)

I would probably choose twist rate first, then find a company that was good at making a barrel in that twist. I skipped quite a few companies because I did not want a 1/12 or 1/7 twist on my 223.
The 1-9 twist came about because they didn’t offer a 1-10, otherwise I would have gone with a 1-10. I never really concern myself too much with spin, I always just try and get a twist rate that will accomplish what I’m trying to do. I was thinking about spin more as an after thought really. Hopefully the FPS/spin combo does what my expectations hopes it does. This will be a 20-222 so I’m not expecting to be on the high end of 20 caliber velocity. I have a ton of 222 Lapua brass and just wanted to build something that I can use the components I already have. I’ve been wanting to build a Vartarg but this is easier for me and should be fun too.
 
I have the parts to build a 20 caliber rifle. I was thinking about using Hornady 40 gr V-max bullets. My barrel has an 11 inch twist. Will that twist work with those bullets?
Many guys with lots if experience, more than I have, say it will work just fine. It should be an easy subject to research, I’d use the search feature here in the forums and see what comes up. I use that feature all the time to find old threads when I’m looking for answers to a question, it’s very helpful.
 
I have the parts to build a 20 caliber rifle. I was thinking about using Hornady 40 gr V-max bullets. My barrel has an 11 inch twist. Will that twist work with those bullets?
Here is a bullet length database from JBM Ballistics.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Hornady

It shows the 40 VMax at 0.752" to the tip of the plastic point, (and about 0.620 to the hollow point based on my measurements.)

You will need the stats from Hornady as well.

BC is 0.275, sectional density is 0.137 (not required).

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/20-cal-204-40-gr-v-max-250#!/

Then you go to Berger's stability web page.

Punch in the data and your bbl twist rate and speed. I will guess at least 3600 fps, faster just makes it better.

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

At sea level you would not be happy with an 11 twist. You would probably do better with a 10 twist and some altitude. I run the 40 V-Max in a 10 twist with no issues down to 2650 ASL.

1662320967028.png
 
With the HOR 20 cal 40 gr V-Max he will be unstable according to Berger's stability calculator. At sea level.
I can assure you there isn't a 40 grainer out there that a 11 twist won't shoot just fine.
A 12 twist that's different story
 
I can assure you there isn't a 40 grainer out there that a 11 twist won't shoot just fine.
A 12 twist that's different story
I hear what you are saying and don't doubt you... but I cranked the Berger stability model for the 40 V-Max and that 11 twist and you can see how it looks in terms of SG margin. How high are you shooting? I have seen 40 V-Max keyhole with 11 twist at ranges closer to sea level, then turn around and start working fine at 6k.

I shoot the Sierra 39 and Hornady 40 V-Max all the time, but I am at 10 twist and shoot from 2650 on up to above 7000 in some spots with coyotes higher than that.

With enough altitude and speed, things improve dramatically in terms of that SG stability margin, so some of the times when we don't see keyhole behavior it is due to the thinner air at altitude. Other times, the ballistic tip versus the bullet model accounts for some differences. YMMV
 
How are you using the Berger twist calculator on a 40 gr vmax horny bullet.
You run the 40 gr berger at 3650 at sea level and the sg number is 1.32
 
How are you using the Berger twist calculator on a 40 gr vmax horny bullet.
You run the 40 gr berger at 3650 at sea level and the sg number is 1.32
The Berger bullet is shorter, and that makes a huge difference.

The point to all the early steps was to show how to use that Berger SG calculator with any bullet that you can find the length and BC for.

Hornady 20 cal 40 gr V-Max is 0.752" long and has a G1 BC of 0.275
Berger 20 cal 40 gr BT is 0.680" long and has a G7 BC of 0.116
Sierra 20 cal 39 gr BK is 0.737" long and has a G1 BC of 0.270

When I shoot the Sierra 39 BK at 2650 ASL in a 10 twist I am SG = 1.36 and it can be touchy, when I shoot it at 6000 ASL my SG goes up to 1.54 and I am golden.
With an 11 twist at 2650 ASL, my SG drops to 1.12 but if I climb to 6000 ASL my SG goes to 1.27 md I may or may not get away with it. Much better off with the 10 Twist.

1662335726139.png

1662335771708.png
 
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The Berger bullet is shorter, and that makes a huge difference.

The point to all the early steps was to show how to use that Berger SG calculator with any bullet that you can find the length and BC for.

Hornady 20 cal 40 gr V-Max is 0.752" long and has a G1 BC of 0.275
Berger 20 cal 40 gr BT is 0.680" long and has a G7 BC of 0.116
Sierra 20 cal 39 gr BK is 0.737" long and has a G1 BC of 0.270

When I shoot the Sierra 39 BK at 2650 ASL in a 10 twist I am SG = 1.36 and it can be touchy, when I shoot it at 6000 ASL my SG goes up to 1.54 and I am golden.
With an 11 twist at 2650 ASL, my SG drops to 1.12 but if I climb to 6000 ASL my SG goes to 1.27 md I may or may not get away with it. Much better off with the 10 Twist.

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Then explain to me why a .737 39BK will shoot out of a 12 twist but a .752 won't out of a 11.
Run it on JBM and take into account the plastic tip on the horn and see what you come up with.
 

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Then explain to me why a .737 39BK will shoot out of a 12 twist but a .752 won't out of a 11.
Run it on JBM and take into account the plastic tip on the horn and see what you come up with.
I'm not going to be the guy to explain when one tips over and another doesn't.

I sat with my mouth open when the ballisticians convinced me I had to go from rifled 105mm to smoothbore 120mm.

In your example above, a 1.279 SG is less than a 1.5 SG so strange stuff can happen both good and bad. I won't take credit or blame, but I would go to more twist if it were me.

If he already has an 11 twist, then he can see the issues and judge for himself if he wants to jump to 10 or stay at 11.

I don't doubt your experience at all, it matches some of mine and that of many others. Those models are just math that mimics observations in labs. The SG margin isn't the same as calculating force equilibrium that tips a bullet over.

Sometimes a guy gets away with it, and sometimes he doesn't. I make no claim on the issue of my own, I am just sharing the model and how to crank it. Gyroscopic stability of 1.5 or more is known to be solid. Below 1.5 we all know it can be risky as the value drops. By the time we are at 1.0, we all know what happens and in between is the risky zone. YMMV
 
The O.P has ordered his barrel i believe, point is theres probably 100's of 11 twist out there that are shooting 40 vmaxs.
I've shot plenty of 1.3 SG's and will do it again.
Hell theres some on here who shoot BR that prefer 1.3SG
 
20 Bobcat is Kevin's version of a 20-222 with 40° shoulder. It makes for a sexy looking little case with it's squared off shoulder and I very briefly considered it when I had my 20-222 built but I didn't want yet another rifle I have to fireform for so I hit the easy button and went straight 20-222.
I have done well with Pac-Nor 3 groove barrels.
 
The Berger bullet is shorter, and that makes a huge difference.

The point to all the early steps was to show how to use that Berger SG calculator with any bullet that you can find the length and BC for.

Hornady 20 cal 40 gr V-Max is 0.752" long and has a G1 BC of 0.275
Berger 20 cal 40 gr BT is 0.680" long and has a G7 BC of 0.116
Sierra 20 cal 39 gr BK is 0.737" long and has a G1 BC of 0.270

When I shoot the Sierra 39 BK at 2650 ASL in a 10 twist I am SG = 1.36 and it can be touchy, when I shoot it at 6000 ASL my SG goes up to 1.54 and I am golden.
With an 11 twist at 2650 ASL, my SG drops to 1.12 but if I climb to 6000 ASL my SG goes to 1.27 md I may or may not get away with it. Much better off with the 10 Twist.

View attachment 1367212

View attachment 1367213
RR, l won an auction off GunBroken for a bunch of 20cal 40gr BERGER flat base JHPs.
They are even shorter @ .605''... l am going to load a few of these 40gr Bergers, hoping they will shoot better than the 40gr VMAX l first tried
 

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