180 ELD-Ms coming apart

[STOMP442]

So I had an interesting experience yesterday. I had a client bring me a rifle to tune up a load for. Its chambered in 28 Nosler on a Defiance action with a 26" proof barrel with a brake in 1:8.44 twist. Last weekend I took it out and found a great load. 80.5gr of Retumbo was giving five shot groups in the .3s at 100 yards and a velocity of 3180fps. Went back to the range yesterday evening to do some ballistic verification and ran into a bit of a problem. Beyond 300 yards only about half of my shots were hitting targets. I suspected a scope issue at first so I went back to 100 and things looked fine. Long story short my wife was spotting for me and she finally saw a poof in the air when shooting at the 500 yard gong. The bullets were actually coming apart mid flight. I have heard of this happening before with other bullets but this is the first time I have ever witnessed it personally. The barrel looks fine I don't see any rough spots and it's not fouling excessively so I don't suspect that its the barrel causing the issue. Has anyone else experienced this with the ELD-Ms? I suggested we try the Berger 180 hybrid or 195 but he says he hasn't had good experiences with Berger bullets in the past and doesn't want to use them.

 

[Strafem30MM]

No problem with the ELD-M out of a 7 RSAUM 1-8 twist 26" bartlein barrel with both a brake and suppressor at 2950 fps.

 

[Delfuego]

Like this?
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/eld-m-issues-out-to-a-mile.3951341/#post-37216459

 

[Milo 2.0]

So I had an interesting experience yesterday. I had a client bring me a rifle to tune up a load for. Its chambered in 28 Nosler on a Defiance action with a 26" proof barrel with a brake in 1:8.44 twist. Last weekend I took it out and found a great load. 80.5gr of Retumbo was giving five shot groups in the .3s at 100 yards and a velocity of 3180fps. Went back to the range yesterday evening to do some ballistic verification and ran into a bit of a problem. Beyond 300 yards only about half of my shots were hitting targets. I suspected a scope issue at first so I went back to 100 and things looked fine. Long story short my wife was spotting for me and she finally saw a poof in the air when shooting at the 500 yard gong. The bullets were actually coming apart mid flight. I have heard of this happening before with other bullets but this is the first time I have ever witnessed it personally. The barrel looks fine I don't see any rough spots and it's not fouling excessively so I don't suspect that its the barrel causing the issue. Has anyone else experienced this with the ELD-Ms? I suggested we try the Berger 180 hybrid or 195 but he says he hasn't had good experiences with Berger bullets in the past and doesn't want to use them.

The bullets May<iffy be coming apart from the speed generated. But I'd clean the barrel thoroughly and borescope it, there may be some internal interference causing the jacket to shread.
Edit: Internal classic symptom of working one day and not the next.

 

[STOMP442]

The bullets May<iffy be coming apart from the speed generated. But I'd clean the barrel thoroughly and borescope it, there may be some internal interference causing the jacket to shread.
Edit: Internal classic symptom of working one day and not the next.

I'm not sure they were working the first time out or not as I was only shooting at 100 yards. I didn't start having problems yesterday until I was beyond 300 yards. The more I read the more it seems it may be a bullet issue. I am definitely not the only one having jacket separations. The issue seems to be regulated to the high velocity cartridges. Looks like Hornady needed to focus a bit more on the rest of the bullet and not just the tip.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I'm not sure they were working the first time out or not as I was only shooting at 100 yards. I didn't start having problems yesterday until I was beyond 300 yards. The more I read the more it seems it may be a bullet issue. I am definitely not the only one having jacket separations. The issue seems to be regulated to the high velocity cartridges. Looks like Hornady needed to focus a bit more on the rest of the bullet and not just the tip.

That does make sense.

 

[Titan]

So try a 183 smk or a berger 180 and see if they come apart, then you will know if it's the barrel or not. I have used all three brands but only around 2850 fps none have blown up yet.

 

[STOMP442]

Client has used the 195 Bergers with no problem other than he said he was getting pencil in pencil out on game and why he wanted to switch to the 180 ELD. Like I said I don't think it is the barrel.

 

[ronemus]

I had a barrel that did that with good loads that had worked well in prior barrels. I was able to eliminate the problem with David Tubb's Final Finish at the expense of pushing the throat a bit. I did the full course because I was pressed for time before the National Matches. Starting with the medium grit would probably have done the job, and pushed the throat less. I didn't have a borescope at the time, so I don't know what the exact problem was, although I suspect it was a bur or other roughness. It persisted through about a hundred rounds of break-in and load checking prior to the Final Finish treatment, so it wasn't as simple as a gas port bur.

I'll be interested in your results. I had the advantage of an established load of known performance; those bullets are really moving along from your load. It might be worth a call to Hornady tech support to see if the bullet is expected to survive at that velocity and twist.

 

[gilmillan1]

The eld is a fragile bullet. I have some friends that have had problems with them but once they correct them, the bullet shoots great. You cannot have too much neck tension as it will damage the jacket and it will cause it to blow up. Also, see if you have a carbon ring in the barrel. That has also been a problem. The case mouths need to be properly worked out so that there are no sharp edges that could damage the jacket during seating. Try these things and let us know what happens.

 

[Bc'z]

Client has used the 195 Bergers with no problem other than he said he was getting pencil in pencil out on game and why he wanted to switch to the 180 ELD. Like I said I don't think it is the barrel.

Your OP was talkin bout eldx's thinner jacket, this post sounds like hunting. I'm using eldx's above 2850 in to rifles with no issues.
Maybe the m's with thinner jacket design cant handle velocity. One thing I'm learning is not every bullet is designed for every rifle.

 

[Lee308]

The only time Ive seen that happen was when were doing work up loads for a comp coming up and were were trying to make 208g Amax's in .308 get to 3000fps. It was only a few of them that we fired off, but we put it down to trying to push them too hard.

 

[65 fan]

So I had an interesting experience yesterday. I had a client bring me a rifle to tune up a load for. Its chambered in 28 Nosler on a Defiance action with a 26" proof barrel with a brake in 1:8.44 twist. Last weekend I took it out and found a great load. 80.5gr of Retumbo was giving five shot groups in the .3s at 100 yards and a velocity of 3180fps. Went back to the range yesterday evening to do some ballistic verification and ran into a bit of a problem. Beyond 300 yards only about half of my shots were hitting targets. I suspected a scope issue at first so I went back to 100 and things looked fine. Long story short my wife was spotting for me and she finally saw a poof in the air when shooting at the 500 yard gong. The bullets were actually coming apart mid flight. I have heard of this happening before with other bullets but this is the first time I have ever witnessed it personally. The barrel looks fine I don't see any rough spots and it's not fouling excessively so I don't suspect that its the barrel causing the issue. Has anyone else experienced this with the ELD-Ms? I suggested we try the Berger 180 hybrid or 195 but he says he hasn't had good experiences with Berger bullets in the past and doesn't want to use them.

i have never had any problems with them.i run them 3150fps out of a 7rm.i only use 5r barrells though.im using 9 twist bartlein.they make it to a 1000 with no problems.mlte want to try a 5r barrell in a slower twist like a 8.7 twist. good luck

 

[MFR]

I have shot over 1,600 of the ELD-M 180gr bullets out of a 284WIN. The barrel is a bartlien 8.25 twist 5R. I run the velocity at 2,800. I never had a bullet blow up. I use light neck tension and these bullets group great. Here is a group I shot with them.

 

[STOMP442]

He contacted Hornady. They wanted the bullets back for inspection and he is taking his rifle back to his original smith for a thorough look through.

 

[davidjoe]

He contacted Hornady. They wanted the bullets back for inspection and he is taking his rifle back to his original smith for a thorough look through.

There is nothing wrong with your barrels, guys. I was probably the first to burst ELD M’s in 600 yard matches, last October, (RSAUM) enduring much skepticism with the claim. Since then, I had tested and grown very confident that 180 scenars would not burst, only to learn at SWN ‘18 that indeed they can be made to unpeel for 8 ring scores and completely come apart for misses at 1,000. Certain that B-180 Hybrids were invincible between February and May, the heat of Houston and my daughter’s fast shooting style burst the first Berger in the family, as well as another Lapua.

I’m here to say that these are all incredibly excellent bullets. Magnum cartridges and fast twist barrels will destroy all three of these, at the worst time possible, if you let your barrel get too hot. These are not defective bullets, rather, the RSAUM is BOTH and barrel and bullet eater, and so are its ilk. I can’t say one way or the other for Sierra or other bullets.

However, if you’ve been watching long range match returns, properly tamed magnums are disproportionately winning and coming close. Untamed one’s are also to blame for spotty relays 10 points below the shooter’s average.

Bottom line, I personally know that perfect, flawless barrels in an RSAUM can be made to cull the weakest 2%-5% of the bullets in your box of 100, so do your own diligence on twist and powder load and when it’s riht, save those for 1,000 yards because they don’t last long.

 

[dkhunt14]

There is nothing wrong with your barrels, guys. I was probably the first to burst ELD M’s in 600 yard matches, last October, (RSAUM) enduring much skepticism with the claim. Since then, I had tested and grown very confident that 180 scenars would not burst, only to learn at SWN ‘18 that indeed they can be made to unpeel for 8 ring scores and completely come apart for misses at 1,000. Certain that B-180 Hybrids were invincible between February and May, the heat of Houston and my daughter’s fast shooting style burst the first Berger in the family, as well as another Lapua.

I’m here to say that these are all incredibly excellent bullets. Magnum cartridges and fast twist barrels will destroy all three of these, at the worst time possible, if you let your barrel get too hot. These are not defective bullets, rather, the RSAUM is BOTH and barrel and bullet eater, and so are its ilk. I can’t say one way or the other for Sierra or other bullets.

However, if you’ve been watching long range match returns, properly tamed magnums are disproportionately winning and coming close. Untamed one’s are also to blame for spotty relays 10 points below the shooter’s average.

Bottom line, I personally know that perfect, flawless barrels in an RSAUM can be made to cull the weakest 2%-5% of the bullets in your box of 100, so do your own diligence on twist and powder load and when it’s riht, save those for 1,000 yards because they don’t last long.

I believe a 5 groove barrel puts way less stress on a bullet. Ben had a detailed report on here some time ago. Alias shootdots. Matt

 

[STOMP442]

There is nothing wrong with your barrels, guys. I was probably the first to burst ELD M’s in 600 yard matches, last October, (RSAUM) enduring much skepticism with the claim. Since then, I had tested and grown very confident that 180 scenars would not burst, only to learn at SWN ‘18 that indeed they can be made to unpeel for 8 ring scores and completely come apart for misses at 1,000. Certain that B-180 Hybrids were invincible between February and May, the heat of Houston and my daughter’s fast shooting style burst the first Berger in the family, as well as another Lapua.

I’m here to say that these are all incredibly excellent bullets. Magnum cartridges and fast twist barrels will destroy all three of these, at the worst time possible, if you let your barrel get too hot. These are not defective bullets, rather, the RSAUM is BOTH and barrel and bullet eater, and so are its ilk. I can’t say one way or the other for Sierra or other bullets.

However, if you’ve been watching long range match returns, properly tamed magnums are disproportionately winning and coming close. Untamed one’s are also to blame for spotty relays 10 points below the shooter’s average.

Bottom line, I personally know that perfect, flawless barrels in an RSAUM can be made to cull the weakest 2%-5% of the bullets in your box of 100, so do your own diligence on twist and powder load and when it’s riht, save those for 1,000 yards because they don’t last long.

This rifle isn't getting hot. In a 5 shot string 2-3 are making it to the target. The last group I tried shooting with it the first two rounds out of a cold barrel didn't make it and the last three shot just fine. It's not like I am shooting a 10-15 shot string where I can blame barrel abuse on bullet performance.

 

[davidjoe]

I believe a 5 groove barrel puts way less stress on a bullet. Ben had a detailed report on here some time ago. Alias shootdots. Matt

I think they do, too. Still, 5R barrels accounted for all those lost bullets. The 5R pattern certainly looks like it only mildly displaces jackets. I believe softening heat with centrifugal force is to blame.

I should add that those 3 bullets are not at all equally sensitive. ELD’s were far more prone to burst than Lapuas. Bergers were by far, the least apt to blow up in my experience.

 

[davidjoe]

This rifle isn't getting hot. In a 5 shot string 2-3 are making it to the target. The last group I tried shooting with it the first two rounds out of a cold barrel didn't make it and the last three shot just fine. It's not like I am shooting a 10-15 shot string where I can blame barrel abuse on bullet performance.

Yes, but you are shooting 200 FPS faster. My blow ups were less frequent but occurred with only 62.5 grains of RE 25 and 2,990 FPS. Your speed is great enough not to need heat to burst bullets.