147 ELD coming apart

[Dgd6mm]

I contested the shot the first time it happened. The ruling was a miss. My spotter/scorer said he saw the vapor trail all the way to the target. Therefore, I wasn't 100% convinced that was the right call so I kept shooting them. After another incident the other day, I'm now questioning the bullets. It has caused all kinds of doubt to enter my mind.

I understand. My buddy and I years back were shooting the first generation 115 DTAC's in 6mm Competition Match barrels. We both blew up bullets that day at a 600 yard event. Both these barrels where identical, all the way down to the round count being within 25-35 rounds down the tube. At that time, these Krieger barrels had never seen a brush down them (700) rounds give or take a few. I took mine scrubbed it down to bare metal, he cleaned his as normal, no brush. I never blew another bullet up, shot that barrel to 5200 rounds. My buddy on the other
hand blew up bullets at the very next match. He proceeded to clean his with a brush from than on, no more blow ups.

I'm not saying this is the case with you or the others that have shared their experiences here. I will be going to a 10 twist in my .308 ftr rifle to shoot the 208 Hornaday ELD Match bullets. Hopefully it will work out for me. I haven't seen or read anything yet about the 208 having issues.

Don Dunlap

 

[Down South]

I understand. My buddy and I years back were shooting the first generation 115 DTAC's in 6mm Competition Match barrels. We both blew up bullets that day at a 600 yard event. Both these barrels where identical, all the way down to the round count being within 25-35 rounds down the tube. At that time, these Krieger barrels had never seen a brush down them (700) rounds give or take a few. I took mine scrubbed it down to bare metal, he cleaned his as normal, no brush. I never blew another bullet up, shot that barrel to 5200 rounds. My buddy on the other
hand blew up bullets at the very next match. He proceeded to clean his with a brush from than on, no more blow ups.

I'm not saying this is the case with you or the others that have shared their experiences here. I will be going to a 10 twist in my .308 ftr rifle to shoot the 208 Hornaday ELD Match bullets. Hopefully it will work out for me. I haven't seen or read anything yet about the 208 having issues.

Don Dunlap

Don,

I've been shooting the 208 ELD-M in my old 8.5 twist 5R barrel with a very long throat and no issues so far. I actually like them and the base to ogive and OAL measurements are extremely good in the lots I have.

 

[rardoin]

Don,

I've been shooting the 208 ELD-M in my old 8.5 twist 5R barrel with a very long throat and no issues so far. I actually like them and the base to ogive and OAL measurements are extremely good in the lots I have.

And...you also do thorough barrel scrubbings

 

[Down South]

And...you also do thorough barrel scrubbings

No doubt about that...….

 

[Mr.Knowit all]

I was wondering if a 5R vs a 4-6 grove barrel makes a difference?

I always went with the 5R bc it sounded like it was more friendly to the jacket and would be a lil faster (in theory). I would love to know if there is any difference.

 

[tomswede]

I have never had a Sierra (or a Lapua, Norma or Berger although I have seen Bergers blow up at Camp Perry) bullet blow up regardless of barrel or cleaning. If a bullet comes apart because of a barrel not being clean, it is not a bullet suitable for match use in that caliber.

 

[Area51]

I have never had a Sierra (or a Lapua, Norma or Berger although I have seen Bergers blow up at Camp Perry) bullet blow up regardless of barrel or cleaning. If a bullet comes apart because of a barrel not being clean, it is not a bullet suitable for match use in that caliber.

Oh you gonna get it now, remember , ""Don't lift the rock,""

 

[Evan]

I have never had a Sierra (or a Lapua, Norma or Berger although I have seen Bergers blow up at Camp Perry) bullet blow up regardless of barrel or cleaning. If a bullet comes apart because of a barrel not being clean, it is not a bullet suitable for match use in that caliber.

I agree, unless you are pushing the limits. When a bullet shoots at 2750 but blows up at 3200 that's not a problem that makes it unsuitable for match use, it's just a limitation on performance. Now if the bullet is inconsistent, that's a real problem.

 

[tomswede]

I agree, unless you are pushing the limits. When a bullet shoots at 2750 but blows up at 3200 that's not a problem that makes it unsuitable for match use, it's just a limitation on performance. Now if the bullet is inconsistent, that's a real problem.

Yes, if clearly outside the design intent (probably should be spelled out a bit more clearly by the makers). Have seen light varmint bullets blow up shot out of7 twist 223’s, a case of clearly being outside what the bullet was designed for.

 

[Evan]

Yes, if clearly outside the design intent (probably should be spelled out a bit more clearly by the makers).

Totally agree. A max rpm spec would go a long way.

 

[Area51]

Totally agree. A max rpm spec would go a long way.

Maybe a max chamber temp and max shots till failure would help also? Max speed cuz we know they frag, well as you all pointed out is guess that,s a "Duh" moment. Oh wait and don't forget , ya cant use square cut rifled barrels, with well defined precise cut edges on the grooving. Bullet use guidelines is clearly in order!

• 

 

[Evan]

Maybe a max chamber temp and max shots till failure would help also? Max speed cuz we know they frag, well as you all pointed out is guess that,s a "Duh" moment. Oh wait and don't forget , ya cant use square cut rifled barrels, with well defined precise cut edges on the grooving. Bullet use guidelines is clearly in order!

• 

Sarcasm?

I think specifying max rpm and recommended minimum twist would allow most folks who cared to do the necessary math. A drawing with measurements would help too. But this would also put them on the hook for sticking to what they published, which is why I imagine they don't make those numbers available

 

[Area51]

Sarcasm?

I think specifying max rpm and recommended minimum twist would allow most folks who cared to do the necessary math. A drawing with measurements would help too. But this would also put them on the hook for sticking to what they published, which is why I imagine they don't make those numbers available

A drawing of what, a recommended chamber or seating depth or? This sounds interesting.

 

[Rtheurer]

I lost two at 3200FPS out of a 1:8 twist if that helps.
ALL other ELD's in this and other calibers have been just fine. Just the 147's for me.

Opps Correction I backed off that load later and was going 3095fps when the failure occurred. Sorry for that. That's why I have to right things down now. LOL

 

[Area51]

I lost two at 3200FPS out of a 1:8 twist if that helps.
ALL other ELD's in this and other calibers have been just fine. Just the 147's for me.

Maybe a warning on the lovely silver and red boxes,
Warning, All bullets may not make it to the intended target. Results will vary.

 

[Evan]

A drawing of what, a recommended chamber or seating depth or? This sounds interesting.

Of the bullet: Overall length, length and angle of boattail, ogive spec.

 

[Area51]

Of the bullet: Overall length, length and angle of boattail, ogive spec.

Then we could incorporate the factory defined bullet dimms into a CAD program of some sort to optimize the entire cartridge.? Develop meaningful data that would allow for optimization? Something like quick load. I like where this si going but the software development work would be pretty intense. The new AI servers may play into this very well over time.
That would not tell us that the bullet wont frag once fired though. Unless this is not for that, they fail when they faii under various conditions is what we saw.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Old thread, same old problem. 6.5 PRC. Bartlien 5R, 1-8 twist, 29 inch with about 350 rounds down the tube. Fed 215M primers and ~56 grains of H1000 for about 3050 velocity. Roughly 56 because I was developing loads around that charge using the 215's. Had scrubbed the barrel and cleaned the carbon with ISSO prior to testing loads with Fed 210m primers. Bore scope showed a clean barrel and had no problems. Next time out with 30 rounds since the last cleaning, had three bullets blowup. Two of them lost, one of them left a sideways hole in the target on a 100 yard bench rest target at about 10 inches right and 6 inches high. Too bad really. When they didn't blowup they were shooting about half MOA. Berger 140's won't shoot in this gun (large part of the 350 rounds down the tube). Got probably 300 of these left and can't trust them in a match. What to try next?...

 

[FrankG]

I always went with the 5R bc it sounded like it was more friendly to the jacket and would be a lil faster (in theory). I would love to know if there is any difference.

5R has been proven to fight bullet failure. The odd number of lands and grooves will not distort and upset the bullet jacket as much as a even groove barrel does. The angles on the sides of the land don’t hurt either.

Everything being equal a 5R barrel isn’t any faster velocity wise vs a even groove barrel. Velocity and pressure is more effected by actual bore and groove size and the type of chamber reamer being used to cut the chamber in the same caliber.

Both Hornady and Sierra confirmed to me earlier this year that the 5R fights bullet failure and I’ve maintained that for several years now.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[FrankG]

Old thread, same old problem. 6.5 PRC. Bartlien 5R, 1-8 twist, 29 inch with about 350 rounds down the tube. Fed 215M primers and ~56 grains of H1000 for about 3050 velocity. Roughly 56 because I was developing loads around that charge using the 215's. Had scrubbed the barrel and cleaned the carbon with ISSO prior to testing loads with Fed 210m primers. Bore scope showed a clean barren and had no problems. Next time out with 30 rounds since the last cleaning, had three bullets blowup. Two of them lost, one of them left a sideways hole in the target on a 100 yard bench rest target at about 10 inches right and 6 inches high. Too bad really. When they didn't blowup they were shooting about half MOA. Berger 140's won't shoot in this gun (large part of the 350 rounds down the tube). Got probably 300 of these left and can't trust them in a match. What to try next?...

Did you use a brush with the Iosso?

What are you using the gun for? F Class? PRS? Just curious.

I’d use a Sierra 140 or 142 and or a 140 Amax or a 147 ELDM.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels