17 Fireball vs 20 VarTarg
- Thread starter SD guy
- Start date
Both can be formed from LC brass or star line with a few steps and the correct dies and bushings, or u could buy the brass for 20 vartarg from a few venders on here. The 17 fireball brass can be had from Nosler or if u r patient u can find old Remington stuff. The bullets cost the same around here (hornady v max. cheap, available and accurate enough out of my rifles] .
and The powder charge difference between the two is so minute that I think I spill more than that in a night of reloading.
my choice would be the 20 vartarg or even a 221 fireball for the versatility of them. You can a bigger variety of 20 caliber bullets than 17, and the sky is the limit with the different 22 caliber bullets available. So in the end I would pick the 221 fireball for its versatility, minuscule powder charge, and it’s just plain cool!
and The powder charge difference between the two is so minute that I think I spill more than that in a night of reloading.
my choice would be the 20 vartarg or even a 221 fireball for the versatility of them. You can a bigger variety of 20 caliber bullets than 17, and the sky is the limit with the different 22 caliber bullets available. So in the end I would pick the 221 fireball for its versatility, minuscule powder charge, and it’s just plain cool!
JSH
Gold $$ Contributor
Have both. I run the lighter weight bullets in both, getting equal or darn close too equal speed of the 222 mag case with less powder, so less heat. Some speak of the same with heavies, I have not tried but just go to 17Remington and 204Ruger with heavies. I don’t try to stretch either one for colony varmints. If I get a bang flop, time to switch. I want bang, splat with some air time ;-).
If you go with 223 reformed brass, you will either have to spec reamers or neck turn brass.
FYI I made my own and neck turned. For what the guys on here want for their brass I wouldn’t fool with it. I already had some forming stuff and just needed one other die. Neck turning is a PITA, but a one and done deal. Neck reaming part of it out may or may not work, just adds another step.
If you go with 223 reformed brass, you will either have to spec reamers or neck turn brass.
FYI I made my own and neck turned. For what the guys on here want for their brass I wouldn’t fool with it. I already had some forming stuff and just needed one other die. Neck turning is a PITA, but a one and done deal. Neck reaming part of it out may or may not work, just adds another step.
The main reason I don't have a 17 cal. is , I'm addicted to using my bore scope and it doesn't fit it a 17cal. barrel. Although I have been tempted by the 17 Ackley hornet, my 20 Ackley hornet uses only 14 grain of powder sends a 32vmax out at 3450fps. My average powder weight on my vartarg's is about 20.
The boom, blat, fly factor is not as great with small bullets as with say, a 220 swift shooting a 50 nos. BT at 4080fps but, then we are back to less heat, less powder, less recoil with the smaller cartridge's. and the last thing about 17cal is, the bullets are hard to grip when reloading. I made a couple of seating die's, one for 17. cal and one for 20 cal. where the bullet comes in from the top. that helps a bunch.
The boom, blat, fly factor is not as great with small bullets as with say, a 220 swift shooting a 50 nos. BT at 4080fps but, then we are back to less heat, less powder, less recoil with the smaller cartridge's. and the last thing about 17cal is, the bullets are hard to grip when reloading. I made a couple of seating die's, one for 17. cal and one for 20 cal. where the bullet comes in from the top. that helps a bunch.
JSH
Gold $$ Contributor
I read a large amount on the 17 Remington in years past, gun magazines. A huge majority of them knew little about or understood what the put in print. Powders and barrels and understanding the sub calibers today have came a long way since the 70’s and 80’s.
I have a 17 Remington, I run 25-30 grain bullets. It does not blow in the wind like a feather. I have made several of my shooting buddies eat some humble pie will shooting their 223’s and 204’s.
I look at it like a tool box, right tool for the job, I have several “tools”.
I have a 17 Remington, I run 25-30 grain bullets. It does not blow in the wind like a feather. I have made several of my shooting buddies eat some humble pie will shooting their 223’s and 204’s.
I look at it like a tool box, right tool for the job, I have several “tools”.
However bright the 17 fb might shine the 20 vt will always shine a little brighter. jmho
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
Agree with varmintshooter above. Have a 20VT and a 17M4. That said, for what I do for rock chucks and ground squirrels, occasionally PD's, the 20VT is my pick hands down.
Better in the wind, hits harder, better selection of bullets, same powder weight charge range. The choice seems simple to me.
Better in the wind, hits harder, better selection of bullets, same powder weight charge range. The choice seems simple to me.
One factor almost never discussed is rotational energy. It’s a major element in terminal performance - especially with frangible varmint bullets. I first learned about it decades ago while reading the chapter about shooting feral burros with a 220 Swift in PO Ackley’s first manual. A 17 caliber bullet at 3800 FPS in a 1-9” barrel is spinning at 304,000 RPM. The 20 caliber bullet at the same speed is rotating at 228,000 RPM from a 1-12” barrel. Adding that the 17 bullet is likely running a faster velocity, the difference in lateral energy will be even higher. Unlike velocity, rotational speed remains relatively constant during flight. I am not stating that this makes the 17 caliber superior but it does make (among other factors) the 17 more likely to “explode” upon impact.
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RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Like the linear kinetic energy calculation, the rotational one requires us to know the section inertia properties to be able to calculate how much there really is. Much like the linear version, the rotational speed is squared, so rotational velocity counts for a bunch of the energy difference the same way.
If we looked at the units to run this in Imperial, you would never again ask why engineers like to run the math in KMS (metric). Lucky for us, some of the companies do the mass properties math for us, but you have to dig or beg for those values.
If we looked at the units to run this in Imperial, you would never again ask why engineers like to run the math in KMS (metric). Lucky for us, some of the companies do the mass properties math for us, but you have to dig or beg for those values.
I ain't much good at that there arithmetic, but, I know sometimes when the pups first come out and they're all gathered around the hole, I shoot the one in the center and often get grenade action and take out several others surrounding the hole.. I stopped waiting for them to line up a long time ago.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm agreeing with you.
At this point in my life, there are few places I would rather be than a PD field.
I was just pointing out that things are often too close to call by visual inspection of rotation speeds.
I am sort of dyslexic and not a good writer, so I struggle at times to hit my point.
I don't have the inertia values of the .177 bullets so I can't be of much help.
They don't make it easy to run the math and it is a fair amount of work to dig these things (mass properties of different bullets) out.
At this point in my life, there are few places I would rather be than a PD field.
I was just pointing out that things are often too close to call by visual inspection of rotation speeds.
I am sort of dyslexic and not a good writer, so I struggle at times to hit my point.
I don't have the inertia values of the .177 bullets so I can't be of much help.
They don't make it easy to run the math and it is a fair amount of work to dig these things (mass properties of different bullets) out.
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