1000yrd gun questions

[patchhound]

I`m trying to plan a 1000yr f class gun to shoot next yr at a couple places I found to shoot competition at in my area. My problem is I have no time in the day to call the venders I plan to use for gun components- I work in the oil fields and can`t get out on the phone. The next ealy day I get,almost never happens) I will do some heavy ordering and I hope to have a better idea of what I really need.

Here`s what I`m thinking,

Mcmilan A5 stock- does anybody have an idea of how long the wait is for one?

Krieger bbl- I`m not sure if I want SS or CM, Im thinking of a #17 contour-is there a weight limit on a f-class gun?

I have a Rem 700 lh mag. action that will get blueprinted and I`m really looking hard at the 7mm saum for my chambering, way back when I started the idea I thought of the 7rm and got a lot of really good info about the 7mm options and looking back at that post I`m goin with wild bills advice with the saum. I can live with the rem brass if the case life is good, does someone got info on that?

I could start 15 threads with the questions I got and I really hope that this post can get me on my way as a competition shooter, please help me...What I think I really need is a good book about f-class, precision shooting, and reloading. I`ve learned so much on this site but most the time one thing I learn adds 5 new questions. I wish I knew a pro I could talk to about some of this stuff, my `smith is an old vet of the trade but he`s gone on the weekends and I don`t see him much.

I an really excited with this project and I hope to have it done before the season starts, any help will be a part of this gun!

thanks, pathhound.



It`s easier to ask for forgivness than permision!

 

[Forum Boss]

If you're thinking a 7mm, that limits you to F-Open class which has a 22-lb weight limit. While you are allowed to use a bipod, most of the guys will be using a front rest in Open class. With a front rest you'll want a wide fore-end. That means 3" in the USA, while, I'm told in Canada, you can get away with a wider dimension.

The McMillan A5 is a high-quality stock, much in favor with bipod shooters. However it has a narrower fore-end.

As to barrel contour a Krieger #17,1.250" for 5" tapering to .900" at muzzle) is a good choice. But you have a generous weight limit so some guys modify that to go .92-.94 at muzzle.

You'll find some good info on F-Class shooting in our 2006 Nationals report: http://www.6mmbr.com/fclass06.html

Also you should read the gun of the week articles with Jeff Cochran and John Brewer, both former Nat'l champions.

 

[jb1000br]

McMillans waits are long...you might be better off calling some people that stock them.

Brunos www.brunoshooters.com

or

Bill Shehane www.scopeusout.com

Would definitely NOT do an a5 in the open class...only handicapping yourself.

You need to decide on Open class or F-TR participation.

JB

 

[M700]

And, if you're going F/TR, you will need to stick with .308 Win, or .223 Rem cartridges. That is a simple way to get into F-class.

The sport has evolved quickly, and I'm seeing benchrest quality rifles on the line in the "open" class anymore. Stuff that makes the average "tactical" or "precision hunter" rifle look pretty prehistoric...

 

[PJ]

Patchhound,
My smith just told me the mcm A5 wait is around 20 weeks.
As for Krieger i think the cm is a button rifle and ss is a cut rifle. I maybe wrong if so someone can correct me.
I think that the cm goes under the criterion name"?spelling".
good barrels but not cut rifled.

 

[Asa_Yam]

All barrels sold under the Kreiger name are cut rifled.

All barrels sold under the Criterion name are button rifled.

Criterion is a wholly owned subsidiary of Kreiger barrels. Even so, do not call a Criterion barrel a Kreiger Kreiger & Criterion don't.

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch Hound

Just about Every Quality Vender has a web site. If you email them & tell them what you are looking for you can order that way.

Whats your schedule 12 on 12 off 7days?

Hunting partner starts tonight as a driller on Montana Border with Cyclone, $40/hr Pretty easy to leave the ranch for that kind of money.

Im guessing you are wanting to beable to use this shootin iron to hunt those big Muleys in wyoming hence the A5 stock. Am I right on this assumption?

RT

 

[patchhound]

Hey RT, been a while,

I am wanting to build a gun for competition shootin. It`s kind of hard to srap a perfectly good 700 bdl 7rm to build one but I don`t hunt much and I want to shoot in a competition. Theres lots of way`s to get this done, I just want to get this project started so I can shoot this spring. Haveing a duel purpose rifle sounds good but I don`t see it hapnin with a 1000yrd gun. I really don`t want a wierdo lookin flat bottom stock though- is that the norm for an f class gun? I shoot with a bipod almost alway`s so to have a stock that`s compatible with both rest and bp would be good. any sugestions?

By the looks of things ss seems to be the way to go for a bbl, I will order a krieger 30" ss 7mm #17 soon. I hate Email and don`t use it, maybee I should start...

Looks like McMilan`s too long of a wait for a custom, Ive had my heart set on an a5 since I seen one but if it don`t work good with a rest how about the a4 ??? I`ll feel better when I at least got a bbl`ed action together...My smith builds custom sporter stocks, I might get him to make me an f class one. what should it look like?

By the way, I`m on a pulling rig,work over) so I get to come home every night. Its starting to get real cold out here and thoughts of this gun keeps my brain warm. maybee I`ll come see ya at that match you shoot when it`s done...

see ya, patchhound.

 

[PJ]

Patchhound,
If you are looking at mcmillan stocks they are all going to take awhile. It depends on the stock options you want. That will add a little time to the order. Like if you want adjustable cheek piece. Which one integral, saddle, or what? Do you want adjustable length of pull"lop"?You can get 2 way adjustments, 3 way, or spacer system? What length of pull do you want? Do you want the front rail? do you want sling swivels? If so which one and where? All things to think about when you're freezing up there. Ha Ha. Keep in mind a mcm stock is going to take awhile. If you want an a5 then get one.You won't be disappointed. Just thought you might want to look around to see if someone has one in stock. Try brunos.Depends on what options you want.

 

[patchhound]

thanks for the inspiration...

I`m not into any of the bell&wisiles they got for a stock, I think a good cheek pad would due for support but the LOP`s got me kind of stumped. Is there a way to measure it? That is something that I`de need to know for sure when I order any stock. My CZ`s LOP is 13.75" and it`s a bit too long so should I guess and go for 13"?

I`m still a little curious about the 7mmsaum, sounds like a few big shots tried it but gave up. Is it used these days in f class. I`m ready to go with this project but I need to know if I`m going the right way with it. I like the extra power it`s got over the 6.5`s and 6`s but beter BC`s than the 30`s. Wind here in WY is pretty fearce and I feel it will have an edge over the others. If I had a standard bolt I`de go with the 284 but I can`t find one for a lefty action. It is faster too but I`m not sure about case life and to sort big #`s of cases for 5 shots would`nt be a good thing. Any advise?

 

[PJ]

PATCHHOUND,
I don't know much about f-class shooting. I'm looking into it myself. For lop determination i'll try to explain it. Take your rifle. Grip it as though you were going to shoot it. No need to shoulder it. Place your finger on the trigger like normal. Now turn the rifle 90' . Now bend your arm at the elbow 90'. If it is short ther will be a gap between the butt and your arm at the bicept. I hope this helps and i hope i explained it ok.

 

[patchhound]

I got the old bdl out right know and tried that. The butt is just touching my bisept. This gun fits better than my CZ. I can`t remember the lop of this gun!!! I think it`s 12.75". How do I measure it?

 

[243Mendoza]

Some good sources for stocks:
http://www.robertsoncomposites.com/htmlfiles800/RobertsonComposites800.html
http://mcgeestocks.com/
http://www.sgyrifles.com/html/new_technologies_lab.html

 

[PJ]

Patchhound,
With the rifle try getting in all shooting positions. The sitting, prone,kneeling, and offhand. See how the rifle fits in all positions. As for the measuring the lop of your rifle try taking a long ruler. Place the ruler on a table. Now place the rifle on the ruler. The end of the ruler should meet the trigger. The end of the stock will now show your lop.
The reason i say to try all positions is the measurement will change slightly from position to position.

If and when you mount your own scope i suggest doing the same procedure with the different positions. While adjusting the scope slightly until the eye relief is set.

 

[BountyHunter]

Patchhound

Suggest you stop and regroup. Go to the Guns of the Week here and read about the top Fclass guns and look at stocks, actions and calibers in particular.

IMO you would be much better off selling your action and buying a ready to go Lawton action for $695 you can get it in singleshot or repeater. It comes in LH also. By the time you pay your smith to "fix" the Rem it will cost more and be worth less the moment you leave his shop.

For fclass Single shot would be best, plus the lawton in singleshot has a longer barrel tenon. It also has longer bolt handle. The lawton 7500 also comes 1.450 diameter which is slightly larger than the rem.

Nothing wrong with Kriegers, but lot of other good barrels, such as Broughton, Bartlein, Hart, Spencer etc.

Might want to do some serious reading and talking to guys that have the new 6x47. It runs 107s easily over 3100 and doubt you will find any wind diff with the Rem Short mag at its reduced velocity with heavy bullets. Better barrel life and cheaper on components and recoil would be much less. We just had the 1k nationals in a heavy switching winds, and the 6mms did not lose anything to the biggest 30s and in fact did better in many cases.

BH

 

[PJ]

Bountyhunter,
You make some very good points. I agree a custom action would be a better deal in the long run. Stiller makes an action with the same footprint as a rem 700. I think it goes for around 700 bucks. I'm sure other manufacturers of actions will fit the bill. I just don't remember them all. As for barrels there are a few krieger, Bartlein, Obermeyer"?spelling",Rock. I personally like cut barrels as compared to button. I have a rock on order. Like i said earlier a mcm a5 will take awhile so even if you have to wait to get the barrel you want. It still won't take 5 months like the A5 will take.
Getting back to actions. When i start my next build i'm going to get a surgeon action. Also made on the rem 700 footprint. It has a 20 moa base built in to the action as well as recoil lug.

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch Hound
Alot of good advice here bud. You will have to sort it all out. You know how the saying goes opinions are like.....

Our two top F-Class guys at our 1000yd Regional this fall were shooting a 300 Win Mag & a 243 WSSM Improved. They were tied up to the 5th & final match so you can see what a range of caliber there is in this game. Nothing wrong with 7mm so if you had your hart set on that go for it. Two of our top resident long range shooters shoot the 7RSAUM. they do well & I don't think I have to much on them with the 6.5X284. It is coming down to who can read the wind & makes the least amount of mistakes at that point.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with The Bounty Hunter on the 6X47 out here in the plains. Patch hound I know exactly the brutal wind you will be facing. 25MPH is NOT out of the question out here & 15-20MPH as you very well know is very normal. If you would like to have as much advantage as you can get, look a little bigger for 1000 yards. Ive been all over the US & Wyoming is by far the windiest state in the nation. God Bless you my friend your a better man than I.

Good advice on the custom actions if you don't want to go the Magnum route. The Stiller Predator is very nice, I don't like the bolt handle) & Lawton isn't in yet So i cant say anything there. Stiller cost me $710.00 Neither has a trigger when it comes so think about that too. That Remmy will do for your first gun so don't totally shy away from it. Make a list of pros & Cons & make a decision.
More fuel to ponder over, Just what you needed right? All these posts have been good advice so far, You may want to contact your State shooting ASSN, I bet there is some one real close to you that you can chat with. I went through Rawlins on the way to Wamsutter to go hunting & they have a nice Range there. So you may want to check the gun shop in Rawlins.

Good Luck bud

Russ T

 

[patchhound]

Thanks everybody again for all the good advice!

I`ve thought of the custom action route but I got to go were my funds will allow me. It`s good to know theres guy`s useing the 7saum. I`m pretty well set on this chambering. I`ve always got my CZ to fall back on as a back up gun. It`s a 6br right now but if I ever did get tired with it,doubtfull)I can go with a 6-6.5x47 or something in that fashion. Think I`ll go with a 1:8 not 1:9 when I rebarel though so I can shoot the heavies.

Do a lot of guy`s use a bipod in f class or is it all with a rest. Shootin with a bp is how I learned to shoot p.dogs at 600+ yrds and its the way I`m compeled to go in competition. That has a lot do do with what type of stock I get. I`m still leaning on an A5- screw the wait! It`ll give me some time to save up for a NF 8x32

 

[PJ]

Patchhound,
I have heard that a 1/8 twist for a 6mm. Might not be enough twist for the 115 grain bullets. I don't know if that is higher then you want to go with the weights.

As for the a5 you can't go wrong. I just ordered one and yes it is going to be a wait.

 

[BountyHunter]

The lawton 7000 is exactly rem footprint, the 7500 is slightly larger. I have the 7500 and it is a great action for the money especially. I gives nothing up to my BAT, Python or Rampro actions but is a lot cheaper. It comes now in the magnum boltface.

Only reason I said the I would look at the 6mm is only about 6-8" diff of wind drift at 1k between the RSAM with a 168 and the the improved BRs with a 105. Take the 6x47 and another 100 plus fps and both are equal in wind drift, but the 6 is lot easier on barrels and cheaper to shoot. Unless you can take a 7mm bullet with a .640 or above BC and push it close or over 3000, the 6s with the .540 BC more than equal in wind drift when they are at 3100-3200

There are two heavy bullets in the 6, the DTAC which seems to require a 7 or 7.5 and the BIB 120 FB which does require an 8 twist with larger capacity case. I have a 9 twist with BR DX,ack imp) case and it pushes a 105 BIB FB at 3130. Other than that most are using 8 twist with the VLDs, only the Flat Base BIBs require one twist slower.

good luck

BH