Ar 15 barrel at Urbarrifleman

[urbanrifleman]

Yeah. There's something in people's heads that 'faster is better'. It's not per se.

That said, it is there and is a factor.

So service rifle should be the 7 twist? I know my Urbanrifleman 7 twist barrels absolutely shoot amazing under 3000k. Which I figure a service barrel should top out about 2850ish. Which would be perfect.

I shoot more 7 twists myself than the 8 but I shoot 90s and 88s as well as 80s.

I pretty much decided to go to the 8 twist in the match rifle because people might use them for lighter bullets. And it's longer which means more speed.

 

[jelenko]

So service rifle should be the 7 twist? I know my Urbanrifleman 7 twist barrels absolutely shoot amazing under 3000k. Which I figure a service barrel should top out about 2850ish. Which would be perfect.

I shoot more 7 twists myself than the 8 but I shoot 90s and 88s as well as 80s.

I pretty much decided to go to the 8 twist in the match rifle because people might use them for lighter bullets. And it's longer which means more speed.

Exactly!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Exactly!

Ok it's 7 twist for service rifle.

 

[jelenko]

Are 75 grain hornadys known to have thin skin and jacket failures? The only jacket failure i have ever had that I know of were firing 52 grain bullets in a 7" twist m4 barrel.......I couldn't understand at first why the bullets weren't hitting paper at 50 yards. This rifle was an old co-workers rifle and they were expressing concern with it. I then had them shoot while I observed from the sideline and there it was, not far out from the muzzle I could see puffs of smoke and I knew what was going on. I will say this, in my 18" douglas with 7" twist, it hammers with 77 TMK and have shot it out to 1431 yards.

My understanding is bullets going poof is a 'it depends' situation.
From a study Berger did when there were reports of their bullets blowing up the key factor is heat transfer from the barrel to the lead core. When there's sufficient heat, the lead melts and the centrifugal force pulls it apart.

Contributing factors are the thickness of the jacket [thinner => faster heat transfer], spin rate [faster => more centrifugal force] and condition of the bore [rougher => thins the jacket in places]

 

[urbanrifleman]

My understanding is bullets going poof is a 'it depends' situation.
From a study Berger did when there were reports of their bullets blowing up the key factor is heat transfer from the barrel to the lead core. When there's sufficient heat, the lead melts and the centrifugal force pulls it apart.

Contributing factors are the thickness of the jacket [thinner => faster heat transfer], spin rate [faster => more centrifugal force] and condition of the bore [rougher => thins the jacket in places]

Some barrels blow up bullets. The Wilson's don't. I know that.

 

[323]

Some barrels blow up bullets. The Wilson's don't. I know that.

When you make them put me on the list to buy one. I will give one a try, will use it for AR tactical class just need it to shoot 80.5 bergers or 85.5gr bergers real well.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

One additional comment / advice / caution on service rifle barrels is that they are typically chambered in '223 Wylde', but there can be quite a bit of variation in freebore between different barrel providers, even if they all call them '223 Wylde'.

For example, I have a bolt gun barrel that I bought from Shilen in what they call 223 Wylde and the freebore in that chamber is 25 - 30 thousands shorter than what is the average in my service rifle barrels from Rock River and White Oak.

These specific numbers do not mean much as it they from my gauges, using my measuring techniques, but for me the BTO for an 80 SMK seated to lands measures:
Shilen barrel - 1.960
My service rifle barrels - 1.984 - 1.990

Those 25 thousands mean diddly when loading 77 SMKs for short line but become important when loading for 80s, or 80.5s, or 85.5s for 600.

That to say, I think it would be advisable to have a freebore that is similar / same to the freebore of what the popular service rifle barrel providers call 223 Wylde.

 

[jelenko]

One additional comment / advice / caution on service rifle barrels is that they are typically chambered in '223 Wylde', but there can be quite a bit of variation in freebore between different barrel providers, even if they all call them '223 Wylde'.

For example, I have a bolt gun barrel that I bought from Shilen in what they call 223 Wylde and the freebore in that chamber is 25 - 30 thousands shorter than what is the average in my service rifle barrels from Rock River and White Oak.

These specific numbers do not mean much as it they from my gauges, using my measuring techniques, but for me the BTO for an 80 SMK seated to lands measures:
Shilen barrel - 1.960
My service rifle barrels - 1.984 - 1.990

Those 25 thousands mean diddly when loading 77 SMKs for short line but become important when loading for 80s, or 80.5s, or 85.5s for 600.

That to say, I think it would be advisable to have a freebore that is similar / same to the freebore of what the popular service rifle barrel providers call 223 Wylde.

Completely agree!

 

[urbanrifleman]

One additional comment / advice / caution on service rifle barrels is that they are typically chambered in '223 Wylde', but there can be quite a bit of variation in freebore between different barrel providers, even if they all call them '223 Wylde'.

For example, I have a bolt gun barrel that I bought from Shilen in what they call 223 Wylde and the freebore in that chamber is 25 - 30 thousands shorter than what is the average in my service rifle barrels from Rock River and White Oak.

These specific numbers do not mean much as it they from my gauges, using my measuring techniques, but for me the BTO for an 80 SMK seated to lands measures:
Shilen barrel - 1.960
My service rifle barrels - 1.984 - 1.990

Those 25 thousands mean diddly when loading 77 SMKs for short line but become important when loading for 80s, or 80.5s, or 85.5s for 600.

That to say, I think it would be advisable to have a freebore that is similar / same to the freebore of what the popular service rifle barrel providers call 223 Wylde.

I think yoi will find there are lots of other factors besides the reamer that effect bullet touch on a chamber. The type of lands and grooves and different barrel bore both effect touch point with the same reamer.

 

[jelenko]

Some barrels blow up bullets. The Wilson's don't. I know that.

That reminds me. The study that Berger did also found the tightness of the bore [tighter => more friction => more heat] and opposing lands were contributing factors.

That said, it would seem there's nothing about a Wilson that absolutely prevent bullets from poofing.

 

[ELR LVR]

That reminds me. The study that Berger did also found the tightness of the bore [tighter => more friction => more heat] and opposing lands were contributing factors.

That said, it would seem there's nothing about a Wilson that absolutely prevent bullets from poofing.

Velocity also:
Drives up heat as well as rpm’s
—-
Molten lead leaving the jackets
IE: Comet Tails

 

[David Milisock]

Ok it's 7 twist for service rifle.

I'm not a gunsmith, I do however have over 3 decades of experience shooting a 20" Colt HBAR in a Delta configuration with a 1 in 7 twist with bullet weights from 40 grain to 77 grain in the field.

The first part of my discussion has to address the elephant in the room, 223/5.56x45 case capacity. In my rifle, for real field work the case does not have the ability to push anything heavier that 69 grains fast enough to overcome the I'll effects of increased trajectory and increased time of flight. In short terms at 500+ yards the ability to make 1 shot hits is diminished. The 22 caliber needs a good load, a bullet with a high BC and a reduced time of flight, (velocity) and the 5.56x45 ain't it.

In my rifle 40 grain varmint bulletts blow up unless you shoot them at ridiculously low velocities. Because of the fast twist poor quality 55 grain bullets shoot poorly, well made, (read balanced) 55 grain bullets shoot great out to 200 yards but the wind blows them around at 300 yards. To address the gorilla in the room the 5.56x45 has a serious drop in energy on target starting at 200 and at 300 in my opinion has reached a minimum. If you don't believe me take four one gallon jugs filled with water, shoot them at 50, 100, 200 and 300 yards and observe, starting at 200 all you get a a 22 caliber hole.

So, based on my experience a good barrel with a 1 in 7 twist will be just fine and an intelligent choice in a 223/5.56×45 chambered service rifle. Just remember that you're shooting a 22 pushed with a medium case capacity. A man needs to know his and his rifles limitations.

 

[urbanrifleman]

That said, it would seem there's nothing about a Wilson that absolutely prevent bullets from poofing.

I didn't say that. Just to be clear!

But since you brought it up, this year I will pass 600 barrels made and sold since I started, and I have NEVER had a customer tell me that they were popcorning bullets. Even guys that were using 7 twist barrels to shoot 53 grain v maxes shooting pdogs. So, that is my scouting report for my barrels.

My Wilson barrels are match lapped stainless. They are six groove and very easy on jackets. The bores are .2185".

 

[ELR LVR]

I'm not a gunsmith, I do however have over 3 decades of experience shooting a 20" Colt HBAR in a Delta configuration with a 1 in 7 twist with bullet weights from 40 grain to 77 grain in the field.

The first part of my discussion has to address the elephant in the room, 223/5.56x45 case capacity. In my rifle, for real field work the case does not have the ability to push anything heavier that 69 grains fast enough to overcome the I'll effects of increased trajectory and increased time of flight. In short terms at 500+ yards the ability to make 1 shot hits is diminished. The 22 caliber needs a good load, a bullet with a high BC and a reduced time of flight, (velocity) and the 5.56x45 ain't it.

In my rifle 40 grain varmint bulletts blow up unless you shoot them at ridiculously low velocities. Because of the fast twist poor quality 55 grain bullets shoot poorly, well made, (read balanced) 55 grain bullets shoot great out to 200 yards but the wind blows them around at 300 yards. To address the gorilla in the room the 5.56x45 has a serious drop in energy on target starting at 200 and at 300 in my opinion has reached a minimum. If you don't believe me take four one gallon jugs filled with water, shoot them at 50, 100, 200 and 300 yards and observe, starting at 200 all you get a a 22 caliber hole.

So, based on my experience a good barrel with a 1 in 7 twist will be just fine and an intelligent choice in a 223/5.56×45 chambered service rifle. Just remember that you're shooting a 22 pushed with a medium case capacity. A man needs to know his and his rifles limitations.

Totally agree.
I found similar in that the 69 gr bullets such as SMK or TMK to be the perfect balance for a 7-9 twist barrel.
Using a 77 didnt gain much benefit from BC due to lost velocity. And that weight vs velocity seems yo be a very happy balance point.
—-
The 80’s to 90’s may be great for the 1000 yd comp guys but i have shot the 69tmk out to 800 yds very effectively (furthest Ive tested a .223) and the bonus also is you would not have to single feed it

 

[David Milisock]

Totally agree.
I found similar in that the 69 gr bullets such as SMK or TMK to be the perfect balance for a 7-9 twist barrel.
Using a 77 didnt gain much benefit from BC due to lost velocity. And that weight vs velocity seems yo be a very happy balance point.
—-
The 80’s to 90’s may be great for the 1000 yd comp guys but i have shot the 69tmk out to 800 yds very effectively (furthest Ive tested a .223) and the bonus also is you would not have to single feed it

In my rifle above 69 grains performance at longer ranges (above 400 yards) and as weather degrades performance determines.

In fact my 223 Howa 1 in 12 twist actually shoots better at 300 yards with 40 grain VMAX in varied weather than it does with heavier projectiles. In my opinion it is because I have a good consistent load that shoots well and is 500+ FPS faster than a 55 grain load. Reducing tye time of flight.

 

[Andy Legg]

So service rifle should be the 7 twist? I know my Urbanrifleman 7 twist barrels absolutely shoot amazing under 3000k. Which I figure a service barrel should top out about 2850ish. Which would be perfect.

I shoot more 7 twists myself than the 8 but I shoot 90s and 88s as well as 80s.

I pretty much decided to go to the 8 twist in the match rifle because people might use them for lighter bullets. And it's longer which means more speed.

I would prefer to use the longer Match Rifle Blank to ask you to make a22” barrel for AR-Tactical. We are shooting heavy bullets, so if I have my choice I would also prefer a 1/7 twist.

I could be wrong, but I bet most of the Match Rifle shooters would use the 1/7 also.

Now if guys are varmint hunting…..that would be different.

If you are taking an informal pole….. I vote 1/7 for both service rifle & match rifle.

I too am ready to send $$$ when you begin taking orders.

Andy Legg

 

[SKWERLZ]

1998 prices probably can't happen. Sorry.

I'm thinking they will be the same $319 as my bolt rifle barrels ($419 threaded muzzle). And actually they should be more since you have to invest in a quality barrel extension.

The reason I never got into ar15 barrels is exactly the reason that the prices are supposed to stay at 25 years ago pricing.

A "premium" barrel blank for a bolt gun is $450 and a gunsmith charges $400 (min) to machine it, but a match ar15 barrel is supposed to be $250.

The match capable AR15 barrels I’ve bought were $450 on a Shilen blank and $750 on a Krieger blank and those are quite old prices as I do my own now.


To me a $250 AR barrel is something that doesn’t suck and shoots decently.
People thinking they can get a hammer barrel for $250 are delusional!



$319 for a finished barrel on a Wilson blank is actually a pretty good deal, lot more work to to on a gasser barrel.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Many Hornadys if driven past their intended design limits will have jacket failures, yes
Either from velocity or twist

I’ve had them blow up in situations where their competitors never do.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I would prefer to use the longer Match Rifle Blank to ask you to make a22” barrel for AR-Tactical. We are shooting heavy bullets, so if I have my choice I would also prefer a 1/7 twist.

I could be wrong, but I bet most of the Match Rifle shooters would use the 1/7 also.

Now if guys are varmint hunting…..that would be different.

If you are taking an informal pole….. I vote 1/7 for both service rifle & match rifle.

I too am ready to send $$$ when you begin taking orders.

Andy Legg

What bullet are you shooting in match rifle that would require a 7 twist?

 

[ELR LVR]

I didn't say that. Just to be clear!

But since you brought it up, this year I will pass 600 barrels made and sold since I started, and I have NEVER had a customer tell me that they were popcorning bullets. Even guys that were using 7 twist barrels to shoot 53 grain v maxes shooting pdogs. So, that is my scouting report for my barrels.

My Wilson barrels are match lapped stainless. They are six groove and very easy on jackets. The bores are .2185".

.00275" land engraving per side must have a lot to do with it
I usually see .003" - .0035" land height on a new barrel
---
surprising what just .0005" per side allows for huh?
---
Do you happen to know what the bore or land height is for your 6mm Barrels?