Annealing Questions

[Mike in Oregon]

Having never annealed, I have a few questions. I have the Bench Source annealer, and bought an additional torch mount.

I'll be reloading for the 17FB thru 6.5CM. Would dbl torches even be necessary, especially on the itty-bitty ones?

 

[FarmallSM]

Get 450 & 750 degree tempilac. Paint 450 on the outside of case, shoulder to base, and 750 inside the neck. Start with 1 torch and 6-8 seconds. You want the 750 burned out of the neck and no more than 1/2 the 450 melted on the outside. The key is to get the neck shoulder up to 750+ but never get the base over 450.

 

[Webster]

Get 450 & 750 degree tempilac. Paint 450 on the outside of case, shoulder to base, and 750 inside the neck. Start with 1 torch and 6-8 seconds. You want the 750 burned out of the neck and no more than 1/2 the 450 melted on the outside. The key is to get the neck shoulder up to 750+ but never get the base over 450.

It's impossible to anneal at 750F. You need to be at 1050-1100F for 1-2 seconds. Real annealing data has been put on this website many times. Do a search.

It's impossible to over anneal the body. 750F for several minutes does not anneal. I anneal until the neck just turns red with a single torch. About 8-9 seconds in the flame. I hold the case in my neck turner case holder and rotate with a drill. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck. Most setups in videos show the very hot pointed flame tip just off the case neck. Some of the videos show the side away from the flame being colder. I see the entire neck red at the same time this way.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Get 450 & 750 degree tempilac. Paint 450 on the outside of case, shoulder to base, and 750 inside the neck. Start with 1 torch and 6-8 seconds. You want the 750 burned out of the neck and no more than 1/2 the 450 melted on the outside. The key is to get the neck shoulder up to 750+ but never get the base over 450.

Holy crap. Like I said, this is new to me but I have never heard what you just said. I learn something everyday!

 

[Rick Richard]

I use a single torch and have no issues. A single torch is much easier to manipulate/manage than two. As for as annealing goes, watch and read as much info that you can absorb…..because it is still a guess if you are actually annealing with the common methods the average shooter employs.

 

[JMayo]

2 torches get the neck shoulder junction hot without heating the whole case.
(Less time in the flame)
I've never used tempilac. I Just get them to the edge of glow.
Use a couple of dummy cases
Standing there, fingers on dial.
Make it glow turn the speed up until it is right at that edge.
There is a learning curve to flame strength and time. Nothing is perfect.
Have fun playing with your new toy !

 

[FarmallSM]

It's impossible to anneal at 750F. You need to be at 1050-1100F for 1-2 seconds. Real annealing data has been put on this website many times. Do a search.

It's impossible to over anneal the body. 750F for several minutes does not anneal. I anneal until the neck just turns red with a single torch. About 8-9 seconds in the flame. I hold the case in my neck turner case holder and rotate with a drill. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck. Most setups in videos show the very hot pointed flame tip just off the case neck. Some of the videos show the side away from the flame being colder. I see the entire neck red at the same time this way.

The 750 tempilac is just a go by to make sure you’re getting well over that. Case necks do turn slightly cherry red, when viewed with the lights off. The 450 is to makes sure your not getting the case head too hot. You can dam sure over heat the case head.
Not sure I’d claim to be an expert running a drill and torch.

 

[FarmallSM]

Holy crap. Like I said, this is new to me but I have never heard what you just said. I learn something everyday!

Pick and choose your “expert” carefully. Online opinions are not always reliable. Get on the annealer manufacturerers websites and research it. I chose the Giraud annealer 10+ years ago. I was taught to anneal in 1986. The technique then was to set cases in a cake pan of water, about half way up the case. Heat neck shoulders to just slightly cherry red then tip over in water to cool. The important part was not the get the case head too hot.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Pick and choose your “expert” carefully. Online opinions are not always reliable. Get on the annealer manufacturerers websites and research it. I chose the Giraud annealer 10+ years ago. I was taught to anneal in 1986. The technique then was to set cases in a cake pan of water, about half way up the case. Heat neck shoulders to just slightly cherry red then tip over in water to cool. The important part was not the get the case head too hot.

True that. I obviously have some research to do till I have peace of mind.

 

[hoz53]

Pick and choose your “expert” carefully. Online opinions are not always reliable. Get on the annealer manufacturerers websites and research it. I chose the Giraud annealer 10+ years ago. I was taught to anneal in 1986. The technique then was to set cases in a cake pan of water, about half way up the case. Heat neck shoulders to just slightly cherry red then tip over in water to cool. The important part was not the get the case head too hot.

i started with the cake pan method also. seems crude now. but i have never had a case separation of an annealed case

 

[hoz53]

True that. I obviously have some research to do till I have peace of mind.

i first started annealing in the cake pan with water many years ago. like you i got the bench source prob 10 years ago. the tempilaque never worked for me and its not cheap. i use 2 torches and set mine up with old cases i keep out of the scrap bucket just for that. i usually time it until the orange glow just comes off the case. i try to get my brass looking like an anneal mark on a lapua- that far down the case- Though i didnt believe in amp for quite some time I think i finally have come around to believing in them and plan on getting one this year sometime. at least thats my feeling rite now. good luck

 

[Paddyd]

It's impossible to anneal at 750F. You need to be at 1050-1100F for 1-2 seconds. Real annealing data has been put on this website many times. Do a search.

It's impossible to over anneal the body. 750F for several minutes does not anneal. I anneal until the neck just turns red with a single torch. About 8-9 seconds in the flame. I hold the case in my neck turner case holder and rotate with a drill. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck. Most setups in videos show the very hot pointed flame tip just off the case neck. Some of the videos show the side away from the flame being colder. I see the entire neck red at the same time this way.

I use my drill and a deep well socket and the torch. Only difference is time. I do it in near darkness and see red at 5 to 6 seconds. 8 to 9 seems almost too long for me, but hey, if it works...

 

[Webster]

I use my drill and a deep well socket and the torch. Only difference is time. I do it in near darkness and see red at 5 to 6 seconds. 8 to 9 seems almost too long for me, but hey, if it works...

The tip of the flame is a lot hoter than the inner part.

 

[Paddyd]

That is true, but we're not welding and any part of the flame is hot enough to destroy brass. Regardless, I pull it out when I see a red glow.

 

[BHP9]

I have an AGS Annealer with a single torch head and anneal 6.5 Cr and .308.

The 6.5Cr runs about 7 secs and the .308 is about 9.

Erik Cortina did videos that's wotrth watching.

 

[NF1E]

I have been more than happy with the results of my Giraud with a single torch. Whatta Hobby!

 

[MikeRu]

I saved a fortune by using this:
Annealrite

My Goals are to get the same seating pressure reading every time with long brass life, not to achieve annealing nirvana or to become a metallurgist. I heat to about 800F but not to a red glow, works great. YGMV

 

[Straightshooter1]

Having never annealed, I have a few questions. I have the Bench Source annealer, and bought an additional torch mount.

I'll be reloading for the 17FB thru 6.5CM. Would dbl torches even be necessary, especially on the itty-bitty ones?

The quicker you can get the necks up to a temperature that'll anneal, the better. IMHO, using two torches, especially "itty-bitty ones" is a good idea.

Keep in mind that getting a "proper" anneal is a function of both the amount of heat the brass is brought to AND the amount of time. Less time when more hot and more time when less hot. Like @Webster said, the brass needs to get to ~1,100°F (600°C) for about 1 second. You can tell this temperature when the neck turns red (best observed in a darkened room). It may take 8 - 9 seconds for the neck in the flame to get that.

I went with a single torch, but use a swirl flame torch head instead of a pencil flame torch head as it tends to heat the necks up faster and I found I get a more consistent result around the full diameter of the neck and shoulder. Using two torches as you're about to, tends to give you that consistency too.

If you haven't already read through my thread where I did some actual hardness testing to see what works or not, you might want to take a read there. I got tired of guessing and hearing different takes of what annealing brass actually does. Here's a link to that thread:

Thread 'Flame Annealing - almost perfect'

Nov 23, 2024

As I mentioned in another thread, I recently bought a Webster Hardness Tester (it's a counterfeit) to get a better idea of what my annealing efforts were actually like. Am reporting back with what I've observed after doing some testing to see how this tester might help.

It's always been my objective to try and anneal my brass to a hardness at or close to what new brass is. . . like Lapua's brass. But I never had any way to take any kind of measurement and would just anneal to what I thought would be close enough. It was really nothing more than guess work. Now that I have this...

• Straightshooter1

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[Mike in Oregon]

Now I'm having trouble just lighting the tip or tips. I know propane doesn't go bad. I have a new dbl line with individual line shut offs. When it lights, it won't stay lit long. I'm also having troubles with the individual shut off on each line. I'm thinking the dbl line (new) is bad???

The torches are Bernzomatic for general use.

 

[kelbro]

Now I'm having trouble just lighting the tip or tips. I know propane doesn't go bad. I have a new dbl line with individual line shut offs. When it lights, it won't stay lit long. I'm also having troubles with the individual shut off on each line. I'm thinking the dbl line (new) is bad???

The torches are Bernzomatic for general use.

The tanks have a shutoff valve built in if there's a sudden rush of propane out like a hose break or similar situation. With those shut offs, you are going to need to open them one at a time and very slowly to keep from activating the protection valve. Then do the same on the second hose.

That's my guess. I have a propane cooker with a very similar setup and that's how I solved the same problem.