Barrel life 800-1100 rounds!

[1shot]

Barrels are like tires on a race car, consumable items. Sure, if you aren't doing burnouts all the time they will last longer.

 

[AckleymanII]

STS, would you mind sharing the load or the powder that you shoot in your 22 Creed?

 

[L.Sherm]

So what?

Like I said you've obviously never done it.
Go back and read post 66 and 83 you made it about yourself.
I see why you go by Get Real look in the mirror.

 

[Dgd6mm]

It had 1217 rounds on it and would still shoot about 1 inch at 400 yards.

My guess was going to be over 1000 but under 1500. Since I couldn't come up with a closer number then that I figured I'd wait and see. 1217 and 1 inch at 400, excellent.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Was going to inquire with you about a prefit for my Savage. Then seeing this, maybe not.

I was not bad mouthing 22 arc. I asked for a discussion (maybe that was misunderstood). I simply don't see where it lies in the big scheme of things. In terms of a bolt gun at least. I know why it was developed for the gas gun.

I chamber 22 arcs. I did one this week. I ask the question to customers all the time. I don't see it as a big deal to ask why they like it. Also. I'm certainly entitled to my favorites just like everyone else.

In my mind, the 22arc requires a special bolt face, performs about the same as a 223 Ackley and doesn't do anything as good as a 22br. The brass supply for 22 arc is a shadow of either 223 or 22br. And both of those have Lapua brass available, which there is none better.

That's my take on it. But it's not pugilistic.

 

[drop_point]

Back when I used to go on prairie dog hunts all the time, we had a good method which included taking about six rifles a person. We'd roll up with .17 HMRs ready to go. They didn't spook all the close dogs back into their holes when they were fired. If you fired something like a .243 to start the day, you'd rarely see much pop out under 150 yards, so we used the little guns.

We'd kill all the dogs we could up to 150-200 yards. Then we would pick up our .17 Ackley Hornets and kill everything left out to 250-300 yards. Then it was time for .17 Remingtons, .204s, .223s, etc. before getting out bigger stuff.

For the really long shots, we'd have a couple of other rifles for reaching out. Swapping guns also meant cool barrels and more barrel life. My arsenal for prairie dog trips was .17 HMR, .17Ackley Hornet, .204 Ruger, .223 Rem, 6mm Rem AI, and 6.5-284. I would put the majority of the rounds on the .17s and the .204 Ruger. I never wore out a .17 but did go through a couple of .204 barrels. I would shoot maybe 100-200 rounds a trip of 6mm AI and 6.5-284. One shooting partner also put the bulk of his rounds on .17 Remington, .22-250, .223 WSSM, and .220 Swift--he wore out barrels and spent more money.

If I were going to do it again today, I'd shoot .17 Ackley Hornet, .204 Ruger, .223 Rem, 6 Dasher, and probably 6.5x47 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I would also shoot with suppressors as much as I could, too. I'd probably leave the .17 HMRs at home and anything really big.

 

[GetReal]

Smh.

 

[GetReal]

Swapping guns also meant cool barrels and more barrel life.

Same way I put 30 - 50 on a barrel over abt 10 - 15 minutes, then switch to another gun when killing paper and steel. Lets the 1st bbl cool.

Im told too hot a barrel both decreases accuracy as it heats up ( Ive seen that happen numerous times) and also decreases bbl life prematurely.

Im not a pro shooter or anything cool like that.

If the point of the exercise is to hit the PD, not understanding why anyone would put 800 - 1000 rds on a single bbl in an 8 hr day.

Maybe such overheating is why these bbls only last 1k.

 

[KMW 1954]

I was not bad mouthing 22 arc. I asked for a discussion (maybe that was misunderstood). I simply don't see where it lies in the big scheme of things. In terms of a bolt gun at least. I know why it was developed for the gas gun.

I chamber 22 arcs. I did one this week. I ask the question to customers all the time. I don't see it as a big deal to ask why they like it. Also. I'm certainly entitled to my favorites just like everyone else.

In my mind, the 22arc requires a special bolt face, performs about the same as a 223 Ackley and doesn't do anything as good as a 22br. The brass supply for 22 arc is a shadow of either 223 or 22br. And both of those have Lapua brass available, which there is none better.

That's my take on it. But it's not pugilistic.

I know, mine was more a friendly jestive poke at the comment than at you. It has been my contention for a long time that no one has to like or understand what or why I like or believe in something. Don't feel the need for anyone to validate my actions or desires.

Went through the same scenario when I was putting together my 28" 6arc Bolt rifle. Some of the comments I received from friends were very much comical! Today I am shooting that same rifle in a bench league and this year am fighting for the #1 place after normally being down in the middle of the pack. I just don't spend my time trying to understand what or why others are doing what they do.

Also, I know you are now chambering for the 22ARC. We talked about it a while ago, before you started cutting them. Besides, I have followed you on here enough to gain a great deal of respect for what you are doing.

As for the special bolt head. I shoot Savage rifles and a bolt head change for them only costs about $30.00. About the same cost as a box of 69gr Sierra Match Kings. They can be easily purchased from our friends at Gun Shake.

Doesn't do anything as good as a 22BR? Yet it is the same case as the 22PPC. Why isn't the 22PPC being used in the AR since it is such a spectacular target round? Why the 223 ISSF build?

 

[AckleymanII]

So you know, there is a 0.5g difference in case capacity between a 22/250 AI and the 22 Creed.

I have shot 22/250 AI on p. dog towns using Win 760 with 55g and 60g Bergers, and it is rough on barrels. Using IMR 4064 in the same case would consume a barrel in two days of shooting, if that!

I had two 22 PPC's that I alternated on p. dog trips. We shot a non-canister version of H335(WC844) with 50g bullets at 3650 and 55's at 3550 on 28" barrels. The barrel life was exceptional, and I would think that the 22 Arc would just be a better version of the 22 PPC due to perhaps another 150 fps.

I had a Hart 14 Twist 6 PPC that I retired at 10,000 documented rounds, shooting nothing but H335 with 60g at 3550. At 8000 rounds, I went from 300 round cleaning intervals to 600-round cleaning intervals as a test, knowing the barrel was at the end of its life. At a 10,000-round interval, high 2s and low 3s were normal, but getting the copper out was a horrific job, and looking down the bore was something that nightmares are made of. I had 2000 rounds of turn neck brass made from PMC 7.62x39 brass. Amazing how that large primer brass was so tough while every other 7.62x39 brass would lose the primer pockets in two firings.

Ferris Pendel told me that there was only a .035-.040 accuracy difference between the large rifle and small rifle primer cases when they were developing the PPC, and I proved that to be correct in both the 22 and 6 PPC. Large primer brass would kill you in a registered benchrest match, but for varmints, it is ok. Forming the brass is a job for guys who love to tinker.

 

[STS]

STS, would you mind sharing the load or the powder that you shoot in your 22 Creed?

VV N-560, VV N-160 and RL26. All 3 will tune in a 22CM if it's a well gunsmithed rifle. I use Lapua brass in one and Alpha in the other. RL26 in one and 560 in the other. There's no magic, any combo of those will shoot well if the rifle is capable and is tuned. If I get low on RL26 I just run down to the corner store and pick up a couple jugs of it. Actually, that's just a bunch of BS, I have enough of it to last a few more barrels. I consider it to be the gold standard in the 22CM. Which figures since it's about as easy to come by as unicorn eyelashes.

 

[Syncrowave]

Im told too hot a barrel both decreases accuracy as it heats up ( Ive seen that happen numerous times) and also decreases bbl life prematurely.

Somewhere along the line, I stumbled across a study done (IIRC) by some Swiss researchers who found that a moderately-hot barrel (i.e. not glowing yet, but not room temperature, either) actually holds up longer (i.e. degrades less, and slower) than a cold barrel.

This surprised me at first, until I remembered the (counterintuitive) fact that many if not all steels actually get stronger as they heat up, peaking in strength somewhere around 450°F ... so it makes sense that a 250° barrel would fire-crack less, and slower, than a 50°F barrel. Lord only knows what happens to the POI or the level of precision at those kinds of temperatures, but barrel resilience to fire cracking should increase.

 

[JSH]

Interesting thread for sure gents.
IMHO the bigger case capacity rigs are for the end of the day or spooked dogs that are at 300+.
I am also of the crowd that brings lot of rifles when I go, right tool for the job the way I see it.
The 22ARC, supposed to be a better mouse trap. The inherent accuracy and history of the PPC speaks for itself, which in turn is a selling point. Myself, I am still PO’d on the 6ARC. Built a 6TCU rifle the year before it was released. Couple of buddies knew about it and what it was, along with knowing I was going to do the 6TCU. Could have at least said hold off till this “new” cartridge is released. Would have been handy to just get brass rather than form stuff.

I am also of the opinion that there are several powders that are badged in different bottles. 296/H110 always comes to mind. Me and a shooting pard first met 30 some years ago, me noticed right off similarity in some data. Then tested it, no doubt the chrono and scale don’t lie.

Speed, yup I admit to being a speed freak. Good speed and good bullet, returns a satisfying “pop” and hopefully some air time.
So, I will pay up when need be.

Uh, if your gonna start looking at cost per shot, ya may want to take up a different hobby.

 

[wright brothers]

Back on page 2, post 37 by Joshb,
overbore chart.
What can I learn from this pertaining to this topic?
Is this telling the 50 is the fastest "barrel eater" on the chart? Thanks.

 

[L.Sherm]

Uh, if your gonna start looking at cost per shot, ya may want to take up a different hobby.

I can choose to spend 500.00 on a good day sage rat hunting or 250.00 for the same amount of rounds even way less in my small 17 stuff.

 

[M-61]

As always:
Barrel life is HIGHLY dependent upon rate of fire.

Very true.
That’s why open bolt automatic’s biggest plus is barrel life. Just that moment or two greatly adds to barrel life over closed bolt. Hard to believe but that fraction of a second is a big difference.
Once that rate of fire in a full auto winds up, amongst other reasons, you need multiple barrels. It’s high enough that quick change barrels are mandatory. But I’m talking about crazy high cyclic rate. Though much slower than what I work on , an MG-42 at about 1500 rounds per minute and an open bolt design needed a quick change barrel.

 

[joshb]

Back on page 2, post 37 by Joshb,
overbore chart.
What can I learn from this pertaining to this topic?
Is this telling the 50 is the fastest "barrel eater" on the chart? Thanks.

As I was reading thru the thread, it turned towards a discussion about barrel life. I thought Leo might want to see the chart for a reference.

 

[David Milisock]

No they don't, pick the appropriate caliber for the task at hand.

I would add that the shooter need's to pick the appropriate caliber, intended shooting conditions, range and rate of fire.

I have 2 bolt action varmint rifles the shoot extreme velocities a 223 at 3,900 FPS and a 6MM Remington at 3,900 FPS. Both barrels are well over 20 years old, because a slow rate of fire and a lower shot count.

I have a 35 year old 5.56 x 45 A2 Colt with a few thousand rounds through it. It's a Delta configuration but as a SPR/DMR the effective range and working ambient conditions were in my opinion to short.
I augmented my inventory with an Aero Precision M4E in 6MM ARC, this maintains a lower operating pressure and improves the reach and effectiveness in more varied ambient conditions.

Because of the case capacity and lower pressures both rifles can work with extended shot strings and rates of fire.

 

[JSH]

I can choose to spend 500.00 on a good day sage rat hunting or 250.00 for the same amount of rounds even way less in my small 17 stuff.

Agreed. It all depends on range and conditions of what I shoot. I know a lot of folks like 17HMR, I just never got impressed with it. Ended up I bought enough 17WSM to pretty much wear this ugly savage out. Got in on ammo for it when no one had any interest or wanted more than a box or two. It goes with me every trip.
Also like my 17FB and 20VT, I don’t stretch the limits on them as some do.

 

[David Milisock]

Why does someone need to explain it?
Are there rules against it?

Let me try to express some concepts of the 22ARC that you may not have thought of, much of which can also be said about the 6MM ARC.
1. Having 22ARC bolt loads and having both a bolt and gas gun can be a dubious condition.
I have an AR15 platform 6MM ARC and a Remington 700 in 6MM Remington loaded hot. The AR is a low pressure SPR/DMR general purpose rile, the Remington is a high pressure crow/chuck rifle, a true varmint grade rifle. Even in a bolt rifle I could never make the 6MM ARC perform like the 6MM Remington but I or one of my children or grandchildren could blow up my AR by mixing up the loads.
I have a similar condition with my A2 in 5.56 and my Howa 1500 in 223 and I'm not happy about it. HOWEVER the 5.56 does handle 60,000 PSI, the 6MM ARC in the AR will not.
2. The case capacity, ergo the performance of the 22ARC is readily available in many commercial cases. Many that can be loaded to out perform the 22ARC and components are more available and less expensive.
3. I have said this about the 6MM ARC and it fits equally with the 22 ARC, it was designed for the AR15 and when used there is an excellent cartridge.