What distance for tuner testing?

[64Rambler]

Is there a preferred distance to run a barrel tuner test? I compete at 600 yd, but I don't always have prime conditions at that distance. Most targets I see posted on this topic appear to be done at 100 yds.
TIA

 

[Canuckienns]

I can usually hit the trash can at five yards with one. sorry.

 

[coldboreshot]

I do at 100yds. Distance which offers the least interference.

 

[R L U]

Is there a preferred distance to run a barrel tuner test? I compete at 600 yd, but I don't always have prime conditions at that distance. Most targets I see posted on this topic appear to be done at 100 yds.
TIA

Practice 100 yds. Get best load and tune then verify at 600 Also don’t be afraid of moving 1-2 numbers either way to test tune at distance. You should see it on the target

 

[F Class John]

I will tell you that I do most of tuner testing at 100yds and most of validation and possible additional testing at 300 then 600. To be fair 1000yds has too much noise so I mostly go with my data from 600 and then shoot 10-20rd groups at 1000 but it's not really testing as much as validation.

*Edit to say that when I do tuner testing, it's not to"tune the gun in" as much as it is to ensure that the load I've developed stays in tune through environmental changes.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I agree with the posters doing at least initial testing at 100 yards due to far less interference. What you learn there will carry over to longer ranges but will shorten the curve to success simply by being more reliable than at longer ranges. So, if tune changes for any reason and at any distance, you now have the reliable data to make the correct change to the tuner. The way I see it is that your initial 100 yard test becomes your owner's manual. It's up to you how clearly it reads or if ya tore a few pages out by short cutting the initial test.

 

[Mulligan]

From my experience


Testing at the distance you intend to compete at is critical.

I can say, with every rifle I have tested at both 100 and 600 yards, the tuner setting was different.

CW

 

[Ccrider]

Your best load at 100 may not be your best at 600, with or without a tuner. Once you tune at the distance you are shooting, take that load and work with the tuner at 100. The changes that the tuner shows with your 600 tuned load 100 will carry over to 600, most off the time.

 

[64Rambler]

From my experience


Testing at the distance you intend to compete at is critical.

I can say, with every rifle I have tested at both 100 and 600 yards, the tuner setting was different.

CW

Was the setting at 600within the window found at 100?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Was the setting at 600within the window found at 100?

This makes me scratch my head a little bit because I think "windows" is not the best term to use. But IME, when changing yardages, you'll either be dead nuts in tune or within a mark or maybe two, with my tuner and two marks is a pretty big swing at tune. Since tune can and does change for various reasons, I think it's very important to understand that you may or may not be in peak tune and how to recognize that, as well as know what you need to do to correct it. So, if we assume tune changes for whatever reason, it shouldn't be left to chance in how you address it. That being the case, in the words of a psychopath former 1st lady...What difference does it make? It changes for different reasons, so I think we should know very clearly how to fix it, regardless of why it changed. The reason I don't care for the term "window" is that I've never seen a gun that shot to it's full on potential over a range of tuner adjustments. We're changing a constant when we move a tuner, so, shouldn't we expect a change, be it either big or small? Granted, I have seen settings that have a few marks between DRASTIC changes. I guess I just don't think in terms of using a tune that leaves anything on the table but I can see some value to that logic at distances where tune changes that aren't clear as day might be usable at times. But I also think it's a bandaid for lack of testing and recognizing peak tune vs a tune that might shoot just well enough to lose with. That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

[Ccrider]

^^^^^^^^!!!!
And then he dropped the mic.

 

[64Rambler]

This makes me scratch my head a little bit because I think "windows" is not the best term to use. But IME, when changing yardages, you'll either be dead nuts in tune or within a mark or maybe two, with my tuner and two marks is a pretty big swing at tune. Since tune can and does change for various reasons, I think it's very important to understand that you may or may not be in peak tune and how to recognize that, as well as know what you need to do to correct it. So, if we assume tune changes for whatever reason, it shouldn't be left to chance in how you address it. That being the case, in the words of a psychopath former 1st lady...What difference does it make? It changes for different reasons, so I think we should know very clearly how to fix it, regardless of why it changed. The reason I don't care for the term "window" is that I've never seen a gun that shot to it's full on potential over a range of tuner adjustments. We're changing a constant when we move a tuner, so, shouldn't we expect a change, be it either big or small? Granted, I have seen settings that have a few marks between DRASTIC changes. I guess I just don't think in terms of using a tune that leaves anything on the table but I can see some value to that logic at distances where tune changes that aren't clear as day might be usable at times. But I also think it's a bandaid for lack of testing and recognizing peak tune vs a tune that might shoot just well enough to lose with. That's my 2 cents anyway.

OK, so "window" may be a poor term, but let me rephrase; Using the attached target as an example (not my target), I can't imagine that settings (at 100 yds) of 2-5 would be chosen over settings 9-12 (given that 4 and 11 have a bit of vertical to them), to go to 600 with. So the question is, would the 600 yd setting usually be found in the 9-12 range (+/- 1) ?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

OK, so "window" may be a poor term, but let me rephrase; Using the attached target as an example, I can't imagine that settings (at 100 yds) of 2-5 would be chosen over settings 9-12 (given that 4 and 11 have a bit of vertical to them), to go to 600 with. So the question is, would the 600 yd setting usually be found in the 9-12 range (+/- 1) ?

Your POI is climbing and not stable at 9-12. I'd try to tune to the top of bbl swing. Nothing big there, but with an unstable poi, I wouldn't trust it in that range. 15 might be it but would need to see 16 and 17 to know. Without knowing the conditions, it's tough to say but 5 6 and 7 show a lot of what I look for but with some wind being possible/likely. Each group being a 3 shot group, ya have to look at more to conclude a solid tune, IME.... like POI but also followed by a predictable progression of group shapes as it moves away from dead nutz in tune. 5 and 7 both have shots out to the same place which looks like wind to me..probably a 10-4 o clock or visa versa, but tough to say for sure. That's why good conditions and doing it at 100 are pretty significant factors. Did you have flags out to see what the wind was doing when those shots came out? A shot can come out and still give good info but that's only if it went where it should for the given condition change. That's why flags matter so much.

 

[Northridge]

600 yards works if that’s your intended yardage

Shawn Williams

 

[64Rambler]

Your POI is climbing and not stable at 9-12. I'd try to tune to the top of bbl swing. Nothing big there, but with an unstable poi, I wouldn't trust it in that range. 15 might be it but would need to see 16 and 17 to know. Without knowing the conditions, it's tough to say but 5 6 and 7 show a lot of what I look for but with some wind being possible/likely. Each group being a 3 shot group, ya have to look at more to conclude a solid tune, IME.... like POI but also followed by a predictable progression of group shapes as it moves away from dead nutz in tune. 5 and 7 both have shots out to the same place which looks like wind to me..probably a 10-4 o clock or visa versa, but tough to say for sure. That's why good conditions and doing it at 100 are pretty significant factors. Did you have flags out to see what the wind was doing when those shots came out? A shot can come out and still give good info but that's only if it went where it should for the given condition change. That's why flags matter so much.

To be clear - not my target - sorry for any confusion. I grabbed it from another tuning post here as an example for group pattern and shape. Agree on POI and would like to see what 16 and 17 would have been. I guess my point was, poi aside, I would not look at taking 2 or 3 to 600 when there are groups like 9 and 10.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Also, with my tuner, it's typically about 10 marks between top and bottom sweet spots on LR guns. You can use that to assume that 5 should be close and at bottom, if 15 is in tune at top. It's pretty amazing how predictable that is, as well.

edit...That was factored into my previous post and why I said what I did...fwiw. Just based on what I see in your test, I'd test say 14-17 or 18 some more. The progression of group shapes that I look for is dead nutz(dotting up), straight vertical(typically at least about a bullet hole of straight vertical) and then diagonal up and to the right(down and left is same thing). That cover 3 marks out of 5 between all the way in tune to all the way out.

ps...your rifle looks like a shooter!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

600 yards works if that’s your intended yardage

Shawn Williams

It can, especially once a person is comfortable at knowing what to look for, which I believe you are. But I also think it adds a lot of "noise" to interpreting a test, for anyone that hasn't become pretty proficient at it. I do suggest checking tune at whatever distance you'll shoot at but that initial testing, where someone is learning what to look for, I think is best done at shorter range. Again, just my 2 cents. You are not new to this. That matters a lot.

 

[Ccrider]

My 300 yard tune will hold at 600, so I would say test the tuner at 300 and expect similar results at 600.

At 100, you have to know what to look for when adjusting the tuner, not just group size. The better you get at it, the more likely your 100 yard tune will hold at 600.

When these experienced and vetted guys like Mike or Shawn say “tuned” remember, they are talking about something likely different than what you consider tuned.

Ultimately, You have to shoot and test to learn.

 

[Kendell Francis]

Yes, I use a turner on my 600 yard rifles, But really it's all about, good barrels,and great bullets

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yes, I use a turner on my 600 yard rifles, But really it's all about, good barrels,and great bullets

I've often said as much. In tune is in tune. That can be with good bullets/bbls, or bad. Not surprisingly, good stuff always out shoots crap...regardless of tuning method. Any tuning method can only give you the potential of the sum of the parts.