22 BR good bad ??

[Cbrown3020]

I have about a 1000 22-250 and 6XC brass that have been gathering dust for 15-20 years.

I'm gonna try to make 22 and 6mm BRs and Tall Dogs out of them via the cut off 22-250 die route. Primary use will be for PDn when the 20 VT, 222 and 223 just don't seem enough gun and because it's a challenge.

I've pushed back shoulders and turned necks on thousands of 223's, WSMs, 308s, and 6.5 Lapua's so this may not be cake walk but certainly appears doable.

In fact it may be easier than making a Tall Dog from 6 BR brass since the necks will not have the neck shoulder junction to contend with.

If the shoulder push back goes well I'll make the die into a Dillon cut off die....push and trim to length in one pull of the 650.

Please keep me informed on how your project progresses. I have a large amount of 22-250 brass collecting dust myself.

 

[ricco1949]

Please keep me informed on how your project progresses. I have a large amount of 22-250 brass collecting dust myself.

10-4...Will start a thread on the project.

 

[Woollybugger]

I would LOVE to See, an Accuracy Test, between the .22 BR and the .22 GT, w/ 12 Twists, 53 gr. V-Maxes,...
SAME Barrel Maker, bbl. length, etc. ! ( Best Powder Load against, Best Powder Load ! ).
I'm leaning towards, the .22 GT due to, the tiny bit of, Extra, "Speed",.. just in case.

Is there ANY, accuracy,.. "Difference" ???

I have a 26” 12T 22 GT (.060 FB) barrel from UrbanBrad and it is excellent with the 53 Vmax.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have a 26” 12T 22 GT (.060 FB) barrel from UrbanBrad and it is excellent with the 53 Vmax.

Man that's sweet.

I think I might need to make one of those for myself.

 

[Woollybugger]

Man that's sweet.

I think I might need to make one of those for myself.

My mistake, this is a 22” barrel.
I shot it again today. I had a couple hundred GAP (hornady) 6 GT brass that I necked down to 22 and ran 53gr Vmax with 36.5 gr of 8208xbr. It ran right at 3800 14sd into .45 groups. It does shoot better with Alpha brass, but for first firing on lesser brass it looks to be perfect for coyotes.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Anyone do load workups with h5350, IMR 4350 or R16?

 

[padom]

Not in 22BR but I did in 22GT with 88 ELD, 85.5 and 90smk. Numbers were good but accuracy wasnt the tightest after a bunch of tweaking and aesting depth tests. Took a lot of effort and found N550 and 4166 to be much better suited.

Not sure how it would do in 22BR

 

[Evan]

Anyone do load workups with h5350, IMR 4350 or R16?

Here are some links to work ups:

Post in thread 'My new 22BR!'

Jul 13, 2019

Updated chart:


I went out and ran a quick pressure ladder of Varget and IMR4320 today. They seem to be shooting better than the IMR4350 or RL17 at >3000fps. Have to do some careful loads with them now that I know where they top out at. Top loads all show the start of very faint ejector smears and some folks would probably forge ahead, but I like my loads on the more moderate side.

• Evan

• 

Post in thread 'My new 22BR!'

Aug 11, 2019

Went out today with the 95 SMK and 90 VLD. VERY high humidity (100%) at 6AM but cool at ~60degrees:

Light but gusty wind; weird stuff was afoot today and groups were large. No mirage made bullet holes crystal clear though! Target set at 300 yards.

I shot RL17, IMR 4350, and Varget. I tested bullet seating from touching to jumping 0.050" in 0.010" steps and I found a whole lotta blah groups. Best group of the day was 0.65" with 90 VLD and 0.040 jump with 29gns of RL17. Most groups were in the 1.2" range and I just don't know that I can trust any of these results...

• Evan

• 

Post in thread 'My new 22BR!'

Feb 16, 2020

Went out today and ran a ladder with the new 85.5gn Berger and IMR4350. It looks great!

33.2gns for 3190fps had a very clear ejector swipe. This was MAX. I came back and shot 3 at 33gns:

The dead center group is my 20 Vartarg with 55gn Bergers (http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/my-20-vartarg-custom.3969176/page-3). The upper left group is the 85.5 and it measures 0.214" at 125yards. I will report back when I do some seating tests and work at 300 yards, but this looks pretty good. I'll also have to see if I can get 10 in a row to go without blowing...

• Evan

• 

Post in thread 'My new 22BR!'

Mar 8, 2020

Went out today and got some good load data for the 85.5 Berger with RL16 and RL17:
RL17 is a speed demon! Unfortunately, a combination of bad wind today and a new folding table bench that bounced under recoil (I will not be using it again ), means that my 5 shot group looks awful and I don't know what the big 3300fps load can actually do:

RL16 is really bulky and the top load was compressed, which I don't care for. I only had 3 left to load after the two ladders and the 5 shot group I shot with RL17, so here's what I managed to get in a calm spot when the...

• Evan

• 

Post in thread 'My new 22BR!'

Jun 18, 2022

I went out with all my reloading equipment and worked up some data for the new TS15.5 powder from Alliant. You can see my rough powder ladder below:

I want to caution anyone thinking of trying this that I'm just a random guy on the internet and you can't assume this is safe. Based on speed alone, we all know there is a lot of pressure to those top loads.

Based on this ladder, I loaded up some 5 shot groups to see where a node might be at. The picture below also has my 6.5x47 groups too. I think I missed my 22BR node. I have a hunch that it is just above my 3 charge weights...

• Evan

 

[urbanrifleman]

Sierra loading manual shows R16 as accuracy powder for both 80s and 90s.

 

[Evan]

Sierra loading manual shows R16 as accuracy powder for both 80s and 90s.

View attachment 1675560View attachment 1675561

My COAL is a good bit longer than theirs but even still…. I must be really high pressure or their loads are only topping out at 50ish ksi. I mean, 25gns of Varget behind the 90gn SMK!? I am running 28gns in my 22 PPC and 30gns in my 22BRs. 32gns of H4350 is a go-to hot load that has worked in all my 22BR barrels. 28.2gns of H4350 doesn’t even max out my 22 PPC.

 

[ctrickett]

Built a 22BR, right now working with it for a MID RANGE prone gun. Using N140 (very close to Varget in performance) in my 6BR which I've been shooting for 12yrs my typical load is 29.0 Varget with 105hyb Bergers. So I used 29.0 N140 with 90smk, they do shoot good, but I'm not totally saying its great....been told to try jumping 90vld Bergers, which I will try soon

 

[padom]

Built a 22BR, right now working with it for a MID RANGE prone gun. Using N140 (very close to Varget in performance) in my 6BR which I've been shooting for 12yrs my typical load is 29.0 Varget with 105hyb Bergers. So I used 29.0 N140 with 90smk, they do shoot good, but I'm not totally saying its great....been told to try jumping 90vld Bergers, which I will try soon

What barrel/specs?

90smk hammer in all 5 of my 22BR barrels to date but took more effort/tuning in my first 7 twist. Switched to Bartlein 7.5 twist and they have straight hammered with very little effort.

Varget shot ok with heavies but 4166 and N550 shot tighter after doing load development and seating depth tests on all 3...

H4895 hammers with 80smk though! This is 80smk, 29.5gr H4895 @ 400yd. 3145 SD 6

https://imgur.com/a/3PL8bPA

 

[urbanrifleman]

What barrel/specs?

90smk hammer in all 5 of my 22BR barrels to date but took more effort/tuning in my first 7 twist. Switched to Bartlein 7.5 twist and they have straight hammered with very little effort.

Varget shot ok with heavies but 4166 and N550 shot tighter after doing load development and seating depth tests on all 3...

H4895 hammers with 80smk though! This is 80smk, 29.5gr H4895 @ 400yd. 3145 SD 6

https://imgur.com/a/3PL8bPA

I decided the 7 twist is for 90s and I shoot it under 3000 fps and I am super impressed.

Here's the thing. I don't think people are doing the math with those 90s and 88s. The bc of SMK 90 is .56 which is more than a 105 hybrid. The 88 ELDM is .54.

So, if you shoot that 2950-3000 node which is super mild with many powders, that's Dasher speed. That's the hot ticket.

Side note we are shooting the 223 ISSF 7 twist and it shoot literally everything good. Even 55 hp and 53 VMAX.

 

[ricco1949]

@urbanrifleman

Makes me wonder if 22 BR could agg under 2 inches at 600 yd?

You sure don't see any in the equipment lists..

 

[urbanrifleman]

@urbanrifleman

Makes me wonder if 22 BR could agg under 2 inches at 600 yd?

You sure don't see any in the equipment lists..

I was going to respond, but then I just realized its just the obligatory troll...

 

[Evan]

@urbanrifleman

Makes me wonder if 22 BR could agg under 2 inches at 600 yd?

You sure don't see any in the equipment lists..

Agg? Maybe. I am an average shot in the LRBR world, and I regularly get groups under 1” at 500yds, under 2” at 600yds, and under 4” at 1000, both in competition and in practice. Agging is a different beast though and I have big groups show up somewhat regularly. I would be curious how the 22 PPC (2940 fps) and 22 BR (3075 fps) would do if a standout, record setting shooter gave it their best effort.

I think the bullets are a limitation. A lot of iterations of 6mm have been tried to arrive where we are today and there has been a lot of collective knowledge that is not there for the 22. I can only recall JLK making a 90gn custom and both Sierra and Berger have made minimal changes to their 90s over the decades since their release. That said, I have the best luck with the 90 SMK once I’ve sorted them. The Bergers shoot the same and cost more. 88 ELD is a fine bullet but it aggs bigger.

Porting the throat and leade specifications developed for 223 FTR guns onto the 22 BR has been pretty successful for me, but I bet there is some performance still on the table to be discovered. Many of the really good gunsmiths can talk to how small changes result in big performance differences, and how some reamers made to the exact same print are just blessed and produce winning chambers. As far as I know, no one is cutting enough 22 BR chambers to play with this to the same degree as 6 BRA and 6 Dasher.

 

[ricco1949]

I was going to respond, but then I just realized its just the obligatory troll...

On the contrary...this is a legitimate question, not meant to be retorical.

 

[ricco1949]

Agg? Maybe. I am an average shot in the LRBR world, and I regularly get groups under 1” at 500yds, under 2” at 600yds, and under 4” at 1000, both in competition and in practice. Agging is a different beast though and I have big groups show up somewhat regularly. I would be curious how the 22 PPC (2940 fps) and 22 BR (3075 fps) would do if a standout, record setting shooter gave it their best effort.

I think the bullets are a limitation. A lot of iterations of 6mm have been tried to arrive where we are today and there has been a lot of collective knowledge that is not there for the 22. I can only recall JLK making a 90gn custom and both Sierra and Berger have made minimal changes to their 90s over the decades since their release. That said, I have the best luck with the 90 SMK once I’ve sorted them. The Bergers shoot the same and cost more. 88 ELD is a fine bullet but it aggs bigger.

Porting the throat and leade specifications developed for 223 FTR guns onto the 22 BR has been pretty successful for me, but I bet there is some performance still on the table to be discovered. Many of the really good gunsmiths can talk to how small changes result in big performance differences, and how some reamers made to the exact same print are just blessed and produce winning chambers. As far as I know, no one is cutting enough 22 BR chambers to play with this to the same degree as 6 BRA and 6 Dasher.

Evan....I've followed your small case LRBR testing. I figured if anybody's done it successfully, it might be you.

 

[Evan]

Evan....I've followed your small case LRBR testing. I figured if anybody's done it successfully, it might be you.

I have asked @Tom E of Vapor Trail about making a 90gn 22. I would be good for a couple thousand a year. I think there’s probably 223 FTR guys who would buy too. Also PRS seems like a great place for 22s to thrive. It’s expensive to start down that road, since there’s never a guarantee that the first dies produce stand-out bullets and it takes a while to amortize the costs of setting up, so I understand why Tom laughs and says “maybe”

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have asked @Tom E of Vapor Trail about making a 90gn 22. I would be good for a couple thousand a year. I think there’s probably 223 FTR guys who would buy too. Also PRS seems like a great place for 22s to thrive. It’s expensive to start down that road, since there’s never a guarantee that the first dies produce stand-out bullets and it takes a while to amortize the costs of setting up, so I understand why Tom laughs and says “maybe”

Here is the thing. (why I assume that "equipment list" comments are trolls)

Long range or short range benchrest, as a competition group, is a very small group of people who all pretty much shoot the exact same calibers, stocks, actions, etc with very little variation. Somebody going off on a wild hair and diving into 22 cal in long range BR is probably not ever going to happen.

Which is why concerning yourselves with "equipment lists" of benchrest matches will basically lead you to the observation that everyone pretty much shoots almost exactly the same thing in that group. And why bringing this into any discussion outside of that small group, will result in finding out that anything discussed must be "not as good" because its not there.

At least this is my experience discussing things on the forum. The old obligatory "well if XXXX was so good, then you would see it at the benchrest XXXX and so and so would be shooting it" is just a troll...

If that is not the case, my apologies.