Revisiting the 257 Ackley Improved

[No manches"]

^^^; yes please do tell

 

[Wild Bill IV]

It's been a while since I enjoyed the 257 AI in Varmint configuration, but I'm about to build another. over 20 years ago I found this to be the best Long Range Varmint rig I have had in my 40 years of shooting at that time. Today, I've had many other calibers in several different actions, but none have impressed me the way the old Bob Imp. did, and now some 30 years laters, I'm going to try and better that one that was so satisfying 30 years ago.

I'm starting with a Savage Axis action, with a special SSS trigger. Then I'll be dressing this rifle in a custom, Laminated Walnut stock, I talked Fred into building altering the layers by changing the direction of the grain 90 degrees every other layer. My thoughts were aimed at stiffness over beauty and keeping weight on the lighter side for a wood stock.

The Barrel is being rifled this week, a 1-10, for lighter bullets that will be throttled up, and open up,,, beyond 600 yards on varmints,,,, I'm not after pelts! It is already deep hole drilled, and is contoured in a Heavy Varmint configuration that is 28" long. The reamer is being modified with a .2495" pilot by Manson as I am typing. I plan on cutting this blank to a finished 27" 6 fluted design, fluting it 3" from the muzzle to 5" from the breech.

I am removing the 10-50x60 Sightron with it's 1/8 MOA dot, and replacing the scope on this rifle with an SIII 8-32x56 PLR w/MOA2 reticle. Perfect for field use for Varmints as far as I can reach out with this rifle.

Brass was being made from Lapua 30/06 brass, but as I have stated before, I prefer 8x57 IS Lapua brass for the XX x 57 cases the 6mm, 257, and 7mm AI chamberings. But I could not find any,,,,, till Saturday, I was able to secure an order for 1 box of 100 I found in Canada. But I found that Monday when it was status changed to shipped, with tracking,,,,,, Canadian Post went on strike Canada wide! Then Monday afternoon, USPS announced they were not taking any shipments to Canada till further notice, as all Canadian Postal is shut down due to this strike!

So I will for now work with the 20 cases I have formed and wait till I receive the 8x57 brass once the strike is settled. Or I will see if they can arrange another shipping method. But 100 cases is enough to wear this new barrel out loading it to the extreme, which is what I built this chambering for. It is the toughest brass I've used from Lapua. The last batch I used for 6mm AI was also the most uniform cases I've had from Lapua, which includes 6.5x47 and 220 Russian! That is saying a lot!

Pictures of components and build updates to come as I get closer to a completed rifle! The fun,,,,,, has begun,,,,

You are truly into an old, but very efficient cartridge!! PO ACKLEY had several very efficient designs! The most efficient 2 design were rimmed cartridges. His third most efficient AI design was the the 257 Roberts AI!!! But, I'm thinking that a 25-08 AI would be a touch more efficient!! That is my next build along with a 6mm International AI!!! A little more powder than 6mm CREED!!!

 

[wildcatter]

That stock is great looking, how does one come by a stock like that? very nice.

Thanks fer your approval,!! I love it, so tell me if you find another! I kinda talked Fred into making this one, but after all the work he said NO! I won't make you another!

He's made blanks before years ago, and had the vacuum chamber, drying room and everything to make it. But dealing with Walnut was a little messier than he thought. It also took 2 blanks to make one. Then ever laminated layer has to be planed on each side, then barrel sanded on each side, cleaning, gluing clamping and vacuum curing. With the standard laminated stocks he mainly used Luan or hardwood plywoods. This was ripped out of different blanks to get enough material for the 2 3/4" beavertail forearm. Plus cutting every other layer into 8" pieces to glue side by side for the length of the block.

I would have another in a heart beat. In fact I am building a new 338-06 lightweight big game rifle. I would love to have it on one of these in Walnut with the grain turned every other layer,then 3 or 4 vents cut in the forend. But like I said, his answer was NO! not maybee, but NO!

 

[ISS]

Where do we all here balance efficiency VS speed? Extended yardage 1st shot hit & kill is my goal. But, there's room for all of here at the table...

ISS

 

[SeabeeKen]

My savage 257 ackley is my favorite hunting rifle

 

[AA Ron]

Beautiful stock and great build, I reccomend trying the Sierra 90gr Blitzking.
Good luck,
Aaron

 

[wildcatter]

You are truly into an old, but very efficient cartridge!! PO ACKLEY had several very efficient designs! The most efficient 2 design were rimmed cartridges. His third most efficient AI design was the the 257 Roberts AI!!! But, I'm thinking that a 25-08 AI would be a touch more efficient!! That is my next build along with a 6mm International AI!!! A little more powder than 6mm CREED!!!

I'm not sure about the 308 case, it's not going to give you enough room for the slower powders you need to keep up with the 06 and the weatherby case in 25 cal. I think If I did a 08 case, i'd drop my barrel from 26" to 22" for those faster powders. I went with the 26" barrel this time, Last time I built one I went with a 27.5" barrel, planning on H4831. But found even the Roberts or in this case, the 8x57 case necked down, just can't get enough of the 4831 in the case to get to max pressures.

Which is what I'm after as it seems top pressure is where the accuracy and Extreme Spread seem to be the tightest. As long as accuray is shooting small moa's, I know where to hold,,,, as long as they leave the barrel at the same speed every time.

Where do we all here balance efficiency VS speed? Extended yardage 1st shot hit & kill is my goal. But, there's room for all of here at the table...

ISS

Long range is no problem! People worry to much about drop, when a rangefinder is all that's needed if you have the bullet leaving the same speed, the smallest extreme spreads and the smallest possible groups are all thats needed to know where this thing is hitting at what yardage. But like I said, I tried those bigger bullets at the same speed as the lighter bullets, and the bullets made more kills, out further, I just can't make those heavy bvullets shoot as accurate at the faster velocities!

Probably why 600 yard Benchrest is ruled by 6mm BR, XC, Dasher, 6x47L, etc. if they could drive those heavy bullets any faster and hold that minimum accuracy,,, trust me, they'd be shooting them in ^MM AI, ^mm Weatherby, 6MM ST Western, etc etc. There is one big reason they don't,,,, ACCURACY, they cant push em that fast and hold it. And small targets requier small groups first and foremost, then enough speed left to open up and do some damage, Just how I do it,,, efficiently.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I'm not sure about the 308 case, it's not going to give you enough room for the slower powders you need to keep up with the 06 and the weatherby case in 25 cal. I think If I did a 08 case, i'd drop my barrel from 26" to 22" for those faster powders. I went with the 26" barrel this time, Last time I built one I went with a 27.5" barrel, planning on H4831. But found even the Roberts or in this case, the 8x57 case necked down, just can't get enough of the 4831 in the case to get to max pressures.

Which is what I'm after as it seems top pressure is where the accuracy and Extreme Spread seem to be the tightest. As long as accuray is shooting small moa's, I know where to hold,,,, as long as they leave the barrel at the same speed every time.

Long range is no problem! People worry to much about drop, when a rangefinder is all that's needed if you have the bullet leaving the same speed, the smallest extreme spreads and the smallest possible groups are all thats needed to know where this thing is hitting at what yardage. But like I said, I tried those bigger bullets at the same speed as the lighter bullets, and the bullets made more kills, out further, I just can't make those heavy bvullets shoot as accurate at the faster velocities!

Probably why 600 yard Benchrest is ruled by 6mm BR, XC, Dasher, 6x47L, etc. if they could drive those heavy bullets any faster and hold that minimum accuracy,,, trust me, they'd be shooting them in ^MM AI, ^mm Weatherby, 6MM ST Western, etc etc. There is one big reason they don't,,,, ACCURACY, they cant push em that fast and hold it. And small targets requier small groups first and foremost, then enough speed left to open up and do some damage, Just how I do it,,, efficiently.

I have a 25-06 custom!! Shot and dropped a buck just shy of 600 with it! The 120SGK grenaded and blew the heart to pieces!! Yeah, A heart shot at 600! That was with near max REMINGTON IMR4831!! The 257Roberts AI has slightly less power capability!!! But it keeps up with the 06 25 Cal wildcat in speed!!!

According to PO Ackley, A ballistian and college professor who blew up rifles, on purpose, using duplex loads, and inside a college hall, there is a balance between cartridge capacity, boar diameter, and barrel life!! The terms he used was OVER BORE, UNDER BORE, and not stated in his books would be OPTIMUM BORE!!! The 257Roberts was slightly under bore, the 257 Roberts AI was ideal or OPTIMUM BORE, and the 25-06 was slightly over bore!

That being said, he really didn't see any gain in the 25-06AI which he described as way OVER BORE. He did mention in his books, that he was quite fond of the 25-06 and enjoyed shooting it!!! His 257 Roberts was a hit among the wildcat chaser, but he still preferred the 25-06!!!

 

[wildcatter]

I have a 25-06 custom!! Shot and dropped a buck just shy of 600 with it! The 120SGK grenaded and blew the heart to pieces!! Yeah, A heart shot at 600! That was with near max REMINGTON IMR4831!! The 257Roberts AI has slightly less power capability!!! But it keeps up with the 06 25 Cal wildcat in speed!!!

According to PO Ackley, A ballistian and college professor who blew up rifles, on purpose, using duplex loads, and inside a college hall, there is a balance between cartridge capacity, boar diameter, and barrel life!! The terms he used was OVER BORE, UNDER BORE, and not stated in his books would be OPTIMUM BORE!!! The 257Roberts was slightly under bore, the 257 Roberts AI was ideal or OPTIMUM BORE, and the 25-06 was slightly over bore!

That being said, he really didn't see any gain in the 25-06AI which he described as way OVER BORE. He did mention in his books, that he was quite fond of the 25-06 and enjoyed shooting it!!! His 257 Roberts was a hit among the wildcat chaser, but he still preferred the 25-06!!!

I agree, I found in my last 257 AI that the medium bullets up to 100 grain were best with the H4350 range of burning rate powders. Slight compressed it gave me better than advertised speeds. From 110 on up the H4831 burn range of powder was coming into its own. The 117 BT Hornady Interlock was at it's best for me with H4831, and slightly compressed giving me my best accuracy and speeds.

One thing I gave up on long ago was the Sierra GK's. Today, and I am planning later this year adding a 257 Roberts AI 1-9 twist #4 sporter barrel to a 338-06 AI build I am currently starting. Both those barrels will be loaded for big game, with Nosler's Accubond hunting bullets! The 338 with it's 22" barrel I'm planning a 180 grn load deer size game and black bear, as well as for elk or bigger with the 200 grain. For the 257's 24" barrel, I'm planning the 110 but may may choose the 120 grain for everything from Antelope to Elk. But today, I would not use the GK's, they've always been on the fragile side for me, even the 180's in the 30-06.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I agree, I found in my last 257 AI that the medium bullets up to 100 grain were best with the H4350 range of burning rate powders. Slight compressed it gave me better than advertised speeds. From 110 on up the H4831 burn range of powder was coming into its own. The 117 BT Hornady Interlock was at it's best for me with H4831, and slightly compressed giving me my best accuracy and speeds.

One thing I gave up on long ago was the Sierra GK's. Today, and I am planning later this year adding a 257 Roberts AI 1-9 twist #4 sporter barrel to a 338-06 AI build I am currently starting. Both those barrels will be loaded for big game, with Nosler's Accubond hunting bullets! The 338 with it's 22" barrel I'm planning a 180 grn load deer size game and black bear, as well as for elk or bigger with the 200 grain. For the 257's 24" barrel, I'm planning the 110 but may may choose the 120 grain for everything from Antelope to Elk. But today, I would not use the GK's, they've always been on the fragile side for me, even the 180's in the 30-06.

I really like the SGK that have the increasing BC as velocity drops!! The 160 SPBT in my 7-08 was awesome!! 7mm Mag shooting buddies were floored when I knocked down and rolled deer hard at 400 while their bullets zipped through them and the ran from the unpack are and died on the run!! I hit a Muley buck in the shoulder bone, past through 2 rib bones, and broke the other shoulder with that bullet at 20feet!!! The jacket in the 25 cal needs to be thicker!!!

 

[wildcatter]

Well it's a little nasty here, cold and been windy, but this afternoon the wind was tolerable so I took the opportunity to sight in the rifle, and check some loads for pressure. I had fired 2 shots and cleaned twice wed. and thur. So I had 4 cases formed. I decided to load one 1/2 grain over the Sierra book max, One at 1 grain over, and the las two at 1.5 grain over their listed Max. Sadly my Chronograph took hard hit in the back of the truck and was not working.


But three shots, and I was sighted in dead center at 100 yards, using 55.0 grains of H4831. I had 8 rounds, I rarely am not sighted in with 3 shots, and wanted to see what 5 shots of the fireforming load would do. I screwed up and shot the second shot out of those five at the wrong bull, but it shot same place on that target the other 4 did on holding same place on the record bull, about 3/4" group at 100 yards.


I took the last four 56.5 and 57.0 grains with the bibs 88 grain HPBT's loaded to barely touch the lands at the S emblem on the BR target with the 5 fireform shots, those two were just slightly over 1/2" apart. But then I had the 2 I loaded with 57.5 grains at a separate S on the opposite target I had hung. I was pretty happy. I am a realist and know that 2 shots from any gun don't mean anything, but it gives me hope knowing they were only .258" center to center just touching.


This where aI will start mynsearch for a load for this bullet. I now have 12 cases, so I will load 4 each with 57.5 grains, 58.0 and 58.5 of H4831 for my next trip next week to the range. I will also load the rest up and for fireforming, and get another 20 or 30 rounds fire formed. It is forming to perfection but I think I will switch to H4350 and the Nosler 85 BT's for the rest of these 50 cases. But man I need the chronograph to know anything about how consistent this load is. At long range ES is critical as we all know. Paper don't show that.

16 shots on this barrel now and after cleaning it from these 12 shots, I had very slight traces of copper that cleaned up with butches, and nothing more with about 6 wet patches. I then brushed, swabbed and dried the barrel. I always use a few drops of TSI 301 on a swab to treat the bore and leave it. I usually have a same POI on the first shot as the rest, or close enough for a good first shot hunting.

I'll report back when I get the first real test loads on paper next week. Hopefully I'll get my chrony working by then or at least find one that works to borrow.

 

[ISS]

Looking pretty good for a fire forming load to start. My 25-284 dies are enroute from CH4D, and my action, barrel, and the reamer are at my local gunsmith's. Conned Mamma into driving me over this afternoon in exchange for lunch at Chick Fil A. About two months before the snow melts up high, and my rehab from Spinal Cord Surgery will be done.

We wish each other luck!

ISS

 

[wildcatter]

Best of luck Rich on the rehab, and I'll up you one with prayers to make that happen, stay healthy my friend! I know what you mean about the weather, but it beats the monotony of one season year round. I have my new #4 contour 338 barrel in hand brass dies and magazine, just waiting on the new Stainless Remington 700 action and the new Peak44 stock, should be hear about the time I get this one dialed in,, Patience my friend, thats what I keep telling myself.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Well it's a little nasty here, cold and been windy, but this afternoon the wind was tolerable so I took the opportunity to sight in the rifle, and check some loads for pressure. I had fired 2 shots and cleaned twice wed. and thur. So I had 4 cases formed. I decided to load one 1/2 grain over the Sierra book max, One at 1 grain over, and the las two at 1.5 grain over their listed Max. Sadly my Chronograph took hard hit in the back of the truck and was not working.
View attachment 1626151View attachment 1626152

But three shots, and I was sighted in dead center at 100 yards, using 55.0 grains of H4831. I had 8 rounds, I rarely am not sighted in with 3 shots, and wanted to see what 5 shots of the fireforming load would do. I screwed up and shot the second shot out of those five at the wrong bull, but it shot same place on that target the other 4 did on holding same place on the record bull, about 3/4" group at 100 yards.
View attachment 1626162

I took the last four 56.5 and 57.0 grains with the bibs 88 grain HPBT's loaded to barely touch the lands at the S emblem on the BR target with the 5 fireform shots, those two were just slightly over 1/2" apart. But then I had the 2 I loaded with 57.5 grains at a separate S on the opposite target I had hung. I was pretty happy. I am a realist and know that 2 shots from any gun don't mean anything, but it gives me hope knowing they were only .258" center to center just touching.
View attachment 1626153

This where aI will start mynsearch for a load for this bullet. I now have 12 cases, so I will load 4 each with 57.5 grains, 58.0 and 58.5 of H4831 for my next trip next week to the range. I will also load the rest up and for fireforming, and get another 20 or 30 rounds fire formed. It is forming to perfection but I think I will switch to H4350 and the Nosler 85 BT's for the rest of these 50 cases. But man I need the chronograph to know anything about how consistent this load is. At long range ES is critical as we all know. Paper don't show that.

16 shots on this barrel now and after cleaning it from these 12 shots, I had very slight traces of copper that cleaned up with butches, and nothing more with about 6 wet patches. I then brushed, swabbed and dried the barrel. I always use a few drops of TSI 301 on a swab to treat the bore and leave it. I usually have a same POI on the first shot as the rest, or close enough for a good first shot hunting.

I'll report back when I get the first real test loads on paper next week. Hopefully I'll get my chrony working by then or at least find one that works to borrow.

great looking rifle you have there.

 

[wildcatter]

I got out today for the second time. Not exactly ready yet to load the fireformed cases, but I was able to try the first load using H4350 with the 88 grn. Bib Bullet, but the speed was a real surprise. No heavy bolt lift, and no head swelling on the brass. But I can't stress how tough this 8x57 Lapua brass is! I also bushed the bolt and am running the smaller dia firing pin, so no cratering with this load. It also showed less Extreme Spread than the H-4831 did @ just 25.4fps for the 3 shot group.


I now have a load to start with, this will be where i begin, and I'll see what .5 and 1 grain more both do. Then I'll start a seating depth test. right now I'm .005" in the lands. Even if this would be a freak and the best this bullet and powder will do, I'll take it. The 3 shots are in the mid .3's @ .376". with the average 3747 fps thats minute of ground hog at 800 yards. Hoping to cut that by .1" for 5 shot groups, anything around 1/4" at this speed is better than I had hoped for.

The other thing I will work with is, neck tension. Right now the Forester FL sizing die is all I have to get enough tension to hold a bullet. I have .287 bushing but with a .287" loaded neck dia. I am not able to use that, the .283" and 284" bushings will be here tomorrow. So these were loaded by FL sizing which leaves the neck at .279, way to tight for seating. So I then ran them thru the K&M Neck Mandrel to expand for turning. So I have barley got .001" neck tension, my thinking is very weak for this cartridge and powder.

I'll know soon, but will have this option. But now will try my original plan with the Redding body die for bumping the shoulder, and then the wilson bushing die for determining the neck tension. I think better days are ahead once I get all my dies in order.Starting cold with new everything takes time, but results like this, tell me it is worth it!

As soon as we get some decent weather again, I'll be back out.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Well it's a little nasty here, cold and been windy, but this afternoon the wind was tolerable so I took the opportunity to sight in the rifle, and check some loads for pressure. I had fired 2 shots and cleaned twice wed. and thur. So I had 4 cases formed. I decided to load one 1/2 grain over the Sierra book max, One at 1 grain over, and the las two at 1.5 grain over their listed Max. Sadly my Chronograph took hard hit in the back of the truck and was not working.
View attachment 1626151View attachment 1626152

But three shots, and I was sighted in dead center at 100 yards, using 55.0 grains of H4831. I had 8 rounds, I rarely am not sighted in with 3 shots, and wanted to see what 5 shots of the fireforming load would do. I screwed up and shot the second shot out of those five at the wrong bull, but it shot same place on that target the other 4 did on holding same place on the record bull, about 3/4" group at 100 yards.
View attachment 1626162

I took the last four 56.5 and 57.0 grains with the bibs 88 grain HPBT's loaded to barely touch the lands at the S emblem on the BR target with the 5 fireform shots, those two were just slightly over 1/2" apart. But then I had the 2 I loaded with 57.5 grains at a separate S on the opposite target I had hung. I was pretty happy. I am a realist and know that 2 shots from any gun don't mean anything, but it gives me hope knowing they were only .258" center to center just touching.
View attachment 1626153

This where aI will start mynsearch for a load for this bullet. I now have 12 cases, so I will load 4 each with 57.5 grains, 58.0 and 58.5 of H4831 for my next trip next week to the range. I will also load the rest up and for fireforming, and get another 20 or 30 rounds fire formed. It is forming to perfection but I think I will switch to H4350 and the Nosler 85 BT's for the rest of these 50 cases. But man I need the chronograph to know anything about how consistent this load is. At long range ES is critical as we all know. Paper don't show that.

16 shots on this barrel now and after cleaning it from these 12 shots, I had very slight traces of copper that cleaned up with butches, and nothing more with about 6 wet patches. I then brushed, swabbed and dried the barrel. I always use a few drops of TSI 301 on a swab to treat the bore and leave it. I usually have a same POI on the first shot as the rest, or close enough for a good first shot hunting.

I'll report back when I get the first real test loads on paper next week. Hopefully I'll get my chrony working by then or at least find one that works to borrow.

one of the prettiest rifles posted in a long time. and it appears to shoot too.