Which custom action for shooting PDs beyond 500 yds?

[Lefty2506]

This is wise...

You're only saying that because you're the one who convinced me that the 22s were a better option

 

[urbanrifleman]

You're only saying that because you're the one who convinced me that the 22s were a better option

Right now, it's about components. Which will get WORSE. We will see what God thinks.

 

[B23]

With regard to cost and availability of top quality brass a Tikka action, plenty of places making pre fits for Tikka's so there's your switch barrel setup, and 22 Creedmoor using Alpha brass would be the easy button and do everything you need.

Custom actions are great I have some myself but you don't necessarily need a full custom build to shoot PD's. If you just have your heart set on a custom action and that's what you want it's your money spend it however you like but if something like a Tikka semi custom build gets you putting rounds downrange sooner, then I'd seriously consider going that route instead.

 

[AlNyhus]

I'll add this and you can take it for what it's worth.

A 22 Creedmoor, 22XC, 22-250AI, etc. all put a a lot of heat into a barrel. Even though you burn less powder with the longer/heavier bullets, the increased bearing surface contributes to additional heat. A 22BR or even better, a 6BR, would be wise to consider.

My 22 Creedmoor on a Mack Bros. single shot action:

My 22BR on a Kelbly Atlas coned bolt action:

For a day on the 'dog towns, it's a no brainer as to which I'll grab. If you choose poorly on a single shot action, every time you stick your finger into the loading port to flick a round into the chamber...instead of just pushing the bolt forward...remember the words "coned bolt" and this conversation.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[JSH]

I have seen or heard mention of Anshutz triggers for a 700.
Budget build, I did a fair bit of my last one on Black Friday events. Saved enough for dies or brass.
I played with 22-250 for a while, just a short throated slow twist 22CM. Didn’t like the use recoil, not on abusive side but the jump in the bags and miss the show.
I find myself reaching for the 22BR when things get stretched out there.
Finally working with the 20BR, time will tell with this one.
TL3( two-bolt heads)
TT Diamond
Shilen 1-9”
KRG Bravo
Arken 5x25

Put together basically from same thoughts of what’s next.

TT are good but not a Jewel.

 

[Lefty2506]

If you choose poorly on a single shot action, every time you stick your finger into the loading port to flick a round into the chamber...instead of just pushing the bolt forward...remember the words "coned bolt" and this conversation.

Good shootin' -Al

I use a Savage Model 12 in 223 a lot for PDs, and I often find myself feeding it singles when I'm shooting from a bench. If I glean nothing else from this thread, AT LEAST I will walk away knowing that there's a cure answer for that kind of insanity. A friend printed me an insert to use as a single round sled, and it helps, but there's still the occasional round that falls in crooked and the tip of the bullet gets wedged up in the corner so that the head is far enough in that I can't reach it to slide it back out. It's how I practice patience so I can go home and deal with my teenagers....

 

[powderbrake]

I shoot a Stiller PredatorV action in 6BR for prairie dogs.
The features it has that make it great for varmints are :

1 Benchrest fit and quality
2 right bolt, left load and eject (I don't use the ejector)
3 single shot
4 coned bolt.

Since they were sold, Stiller doesn't list this action anymore, so If I would replace it I would go to Borden or Bat, and get the same thing.
I would get a drop port, but that is because I am committed to the 6BR (or BRA or Dasher)
If you select a 308 bolt face there are a lot of rounds that you can shoot with it.

 

[L.Sherm]

Al has a good point on barrel heat when picking a cartridge unless you have 3 to rotate.
My next custom action is gonna be a Kauger even though it has a pinned recoil lug, I like the thought of being able to change the bolt head out also.

 

[muleystalker]

The Mountaineer is like the Alpine but does not have the fluted sides and has the more of the target cut on the port , doesn't have the top cut out like the hunting port on the alpine, so the Mountaineer will be stiffer. Both great actions he just made the Mountaineer for people that wanted a bit stiffer action body, for people using it for PRS or someone wanting to build one of the Rimrocks but wanting a 700 fooprint. It comes with the Alpine bolt or the "RR" rimrock bolt with Borden bumps. As far as the Heat treatment they are the same. Both great actions for sure! As far as the integral lug I would save my money, the pinned lug works just fine. But if I recall the price difference isn't all that much of a difference. I want to say that all Mountaineer now come with trigger hangers if I remember correctly. All Bordens single shots come with a coned boldface.

 

[B23]

BAT makes some of the finest actions money can buy and they're often more expensive then some of the others but BAT has their "Igniter" action that is still second to none BAT quality but at a price point that is extremely competitive.

I think most of the new BAT actions have modular bolts so you can change the bolt face size.

 

[muleystalker]

I'll add this and you can take it for what it's worth.

A 22 Creedmoor, 22XC, 22-250AI, etc. all put a a lot of heat into a barrel. Even though you burn less powder with the longer/heavier bullets, the increased bearing surface contributes to additional heat. A 22BR or even better, a 6BR, would be wise to consider.

My 22 Creedmoor on a Mack Bros. single shot action:

My 22BR on a Kelbly Atlas coned bolt action:

For a day on the 'dog towns, it's a no brainer as to which I'll grab. If you choose poorly on a single shot action, every time you stick your finger into the loading port to flick a round into the chamber...instead of just pushing the bolt forward...remember the words "coned bolt" and this conversation.

Good shootin' -Al

This Right Here /\ /\ /\. And for the OP, all the stats on wind and such on paper doesn't aways work out in real world environment. There is a reason you don't see people shooting .22 Dashers and such in long range comps such as 1000 yard F-Class and LR BR, but you do see plenty of 6 Dasher, 6BRA and 6 BRX. If the .22 shot inside the 6 at long range they would be using them in LR Comps. Not saying .22 cal isn't fun. Just food for thought.

 

[stavey]

The Mountaineer is like the Alpine but does not have the fluted sides and has the more of the target cut on the port , doesn't have the top cut out like the hunting port on the alpine, so the Mountaineer will be stiffer. Both great actions he just made the Mountaineer for people that wanted a bit stiffer action body, for people using it for PRS or someone wanting to build one of the Rimrocks but wanting a 700 fooprint. It comes with the Alpine bolt or the "RR" rimrock bolt with Borden bumps. As far as the Heat treatment they are the same. Both great actions for sure! As far as the integral lug I would save my money, the pinned lug works just fine. But if I recall the price difference isn't all that much of a difference. I want to say that all Mountaineer now come with trigger hangers if I remember correctly. All Bordens single shots come with a coned boldface.

Shot a .0105” group today with my Mountaineer. Benchrest accuracy in a repeater. What’s not to love.

 

[rebs]

Have you considered a 6-Dasher ?

 

[JSH]

I use a Savage Model 12 in 223 a lot for PDs, and I often find myself feeding it singles when I'm shooting from a bench. If I glean nothing else from this thread, AT LEAST I will walk away knowing that there's a cure answer for that kind of insanity. A friend printed me an insert to use as a single round sled, and it helps, but there's still the occasional round that falls in crooked and the tip of the bullet gets wedged up in the corner so that the head is far enough in that I can't reach it to slide it back out. It's how I practice patience so I can go home and deal with my teenagers....

If some one with a 3D printer came up with an AICS type sled with drop port hole in it, I would be in for a half dozen.
FYI I have some similar single shot followers and experienced what you mentioned. I heated up a piece of tooth brush handle and sanded and bent it to reach into the port when needed.

 

[Lefty2506]

If the .22 shot inside the 6 at long range they would be using them in LR Comps.

Since this conversation keeps drifting to cartridge selection, I guess I'll bite.

My experience in competitive shooting leads me to believe the opposite. Top level competitors use what they've always used and it takes an act of God to get them to make major changes. To their credit, there's a good reason for this. What they have works really well, and their are more points to be gained by spending time at the range than by spending time at the loading bench. If Tubb hadn't been so successful with the 6mm, I seriously doubt many people would be shooting them today. I'm not saying that a 22-250AI or 22 Creed would make a great F Class or BR rifle. There's more that goes into that decision than just the external ballistics, and the mfg advertised BC is RARELY correct in application. Then there's the fact that what works best for something like BR or F class where the distance is known, doesn't necessarily work well for varmints where the distances are both unknown, and inconsistent.

As I've mentioned before, I plan on having multiple barrels for this action before its all said and done. In fact, I'll probably buy 2 right off the bat. One of those barrels will be in something like a 22-250AI or 22 creed. If for no other reason, I have several hundred 75gr projectiles that have been sitting on my shelf for over a decade, and they need to find themselves some fur to poke holes in. Will I find that such a cartridge heats my barrel up to fast? Yeah, most likely. That means the 2nd barrel will probably be something like a 22BR or 223AI, and I'm leaning towards the 223AI because I already get a 75gr up to 2950 with the standard .223, the .223AI is cheap to load for, and I can still cram the ammo into AR mags and drop them in my backpack if I want to go on a walkabout. A PPC or BR cartridge would gain me another 50-100 fps, but the real world advantage of that extra speed is negligible at best. If I were interested in a PPC or BR based case, I'd likely wait and go with a 22 ARC or 224 Valkyrie once better brass becomes available. While I absolutely love the idea of something like a 6x47, for my applications, ALL 6mm options gain me more recoil (hard to spot for myself), burn more powder, and shoot more expensive projectiles while gaining me little to no practical benefit in application. Would a 105gr 6mm ACTUALLY drift less at 1000yds? Probably. Would the difference be enough for even a very experienced shooter to know whether it was the bullet or a slight shift in the wind half way to the target? Probably not, at least not unless I'm pushing it from a case big enough to heat my barrel up almost as fast as a 22 creedmoor. The point is that its a compromise. If you want less wind drift at distance, you're going to be pushing heavier bullets with more powder, its going to heat the barrel faster, and it's going to shorten the barrels life. The reality is that even in September, the majority of my shots will be in the 200 to 400 yd range, and at 400 yds a 75gr ELD at 3050fps from a 223 AI is hitting within about 1-1/2" of a 105gr 6mm that was launched at 3100 fps. When the distance extends to 600 yds, the 6mm does about 3.5" better in the wind, but doesn't have nearly as much drop. The problem for me is that if I'm shooting past 400 yds, then I'm just trying to see how far away I can hit something and in that case, I might as well be shooting a screamer.

 

[JSH]

Point taken. I am in agreement with the 223 vs 22BR.
Mine was 22BR vs 22-250.
I sometimes wonder about the 223AI loads I read/hear about.
I built a bolt gun in 22Nosler to cover that area, feeds fine from 6.5G and 7.62x39 mags. It is in no way a 22-250 or was ever meant to be. I react to it like a 222mag.

I have fooled with 223 a bunch, more than some but not a lot less than others, various platforms.
I have yet to meet a 223 that is as well mannered all the way around as the 22BR. In no way going away from the 223, there will always be a place in my stable for several.

One of my thoughts on handguns, if I had shot a 41mag before a 44mag, I would never have owned so many 44’s. Same line of thought for me on 22BR, probably would have been no more than one 22-250 and a lot less 223’s.

Lol, may be a late bloomer for an old fart, lol.

 

[Lefty2506]

I get that. My initial use for 223/5.56 was local varmints (coyotes and groundhogs), plinking small groups at 100yds at the range, and then NRA Service Rifle which I did quite well in. Then I got married, bought a house, and started a family and no longer had time to compete. As much as I love to shoot (and I DO LOVE to shoot), I've enjoyed raising kids a lot more so there's no regrets on my end. I've tinkered around with some things since then, but now that the kids are teenagers, I'm enjoying the chance to get behind the trigger more. In the mean time, I've added several ARs (most of which are in 223 Wylde), and a Savage Model 12 in .223 which has been serving as my initial and primary PD tool these past few years. I agree that the .223/ .223Wylde/5.56 can be a little more picky on accuracy than some of the other options. Its not hard to get under 1 MOA, but it can be challenging to get every bullet/powder combination under 1/2 moa. I've met a handful of people who really enjoy the .223AI and I'm hopeful that it will be a little more forgiving than it's parent cartridge. Ballisticly, it gets me about 90% of the way to where I'd like to be for shooting 500 yds and the cost of gaining that last 10% isn't worth it to me... YET! If the .223AI can perform for me, I can see myself putting a fair number of rounds down range every season with that barrel. It would likely be enough to make me want to have a lighter stock or chassis for walking around, and something bigger and heavier for shooting from the bench.

 

[Hotshot]

Lefty, do you know that 6mm cartridges can shoot bullets lighter than 105grains? I would rather shoot my 6Creed with 75vmax at 500 yards than any of the cartridges you have been discussing. Run a ballistic chart to see for yourself. I actually shoot mine at 600-800 yards mostly. My 204Ruger handles everything closer quite well.

 

[Rook 6]

I use a Borden Mountaineer. I would personally stay away from the Rim Rock unless you plan on shooting in austere (read clean) conditions. Blowing dirt doesn’t mix well with a Rimrock. It will bind. Ask me how I know. All Borden actions are outstanding. Rim rocks are simply too tight in tolerance to handle dirt and dust.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I am definitely a single shot guy for varmints. If your set on an integral lug then look at the Defiance deviant, Bat VR and Borden Alpine or Mountaineer. The Defiance and Bat can be had with integral rail as well. I like a right bolt, left port no eject best. I tried the 22s and came back to my 6mm. Easier on the barrel and much less finicky. A 55-60 grain bullet pushing 4000 fps really opens up well. The larger slower bullets just poke a hole in small targets. Not enough meat for them to start to expand. Thats kind of the problem with long range varmint shooting. Hard to maintain that speed on the kind of bullets that will actually expand on small targets.