Powder price increase

[Ccrider]

your actually and factually wrong the dems have held power 3-1 historically over the repubs

Am I factually wrong? I said: Since 1969, republicans have held the presidency more than twice as many years as the dems if I had to count it. Tell me how I am factually wrong:

1973	Richard M. Nixon	Pat Nixon	Spiro T. Agnew
1973-1974	Richard M. Nixon	Pat Nixon	Gerald R. Ford
1974-1977	Gerald R. Ford	Betty Ford	Nelson Rockefeller
1977-1981	Jimmy Carter	Rosalynn Carter	Walter F. Mondale
1981-1989	Ronald Reagan	Nancy Reagan	George Bush
1989-1993	George Bush	Barbara Bush	Dan Quayle
1993-2001	Bill Clinton	Hillary Rodham Clinton	Albert Gore
2001-2009	George W. Bush	Laura Bush	Richard Cheney
2009-2017	Barack Obama	Michelle Obama	Joseph R. Biden
2017-2021	Donald J. Trump	Melania Trump	Mike Pence
2021-	Joseph R. Biden	Jill Biden

 

[Dolomite]

Didn't the prices go up during the start of the Iraq war but then it dropped back to normal after a year?

Powder and Primer pricing is so high that people won't buy it or can't afford it the stores don't make money and sit on inventory which eats into their margin.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Powder and Primer pricing is so high that people won't buy it or can't afford it the stores don't make money and sit on inventory which eats into their margin.

The End!

 

[wildcatter]

Sell everything you use boys, cars, gas, pop, beer, clothes, tires, tools, shoes, shooting accessories, a you name it. Because if you think anything is going to stay the same price, your living in a dream. Been going up for 70 years and will continue.

In times of war, a word of advice,,,, expect limited supplies, of powders bullets, primers, cases, etc, and higher price increases under those conditions.

Been that way for 70 years, not just the past couple. You wanna change it, start fighting to lower your income, about the only thing that might change price increases over time on everything we buy! But when you make more, it cost more, common sense.

 

[Old Navy]

The only canister powder grades on sale in the US that Vista Outdoor controls is Alliant whose extruded rifle powders are made in Europe and imported into the US. Ball type Alliant powders such as the Power Pro types are made in the US by General Dynamics St. Marks Powder Co. in Florida.

Vista is asking silly money for Alliant powders because it can't get enough from the manufacturers to meet demand at competitive prices. This is because its suppliers - Eurenco Bofors in Sweden and Nitrochemie Wimmis a.g. in Switzerland - have pretty well stopped supplying the handloading canister market, nearly all of their production going into military ammo right now. (This also applies to Norma grades which likewise come from Bofors in Sweden.) Despite being European companies, we in the UK and Europe aren't getting any either - and Nitrochemie normally provides us with a very much larger range than the few grades that are rebranded as Alliant. It has nothing to do with the future Czech owners.

Vista companies currently dominate US primer manufacturing business though.

My local shop has Varget, H4350 and H4831SC at $50 and some Reloader 16 at $65. That is a big difference.

 

[Dolomite]

What I mean is that what goes up must come down some, maybe not to exactly where it was years ago but lower than what the increase is. Didn't that happen over the last 10 years or so with primers? Or am I just dreaming?

 

[6.5 forever]

What I mean is that what goes up must come down some, maybe not to exactly where it was years ago but lower than what the increase is. Didn't that happen over the last 10 years or so with primers? Or am I just dreaming? View attachment 1513082not only are you dreaming but it's a NIGHTMARE...

not only are you dreaming but it's a NIGHTMARE

 

[Kracken McGraw]

For those of us that have a good supply of powder and would buy a little more when funds were available, this is going to stop now at these new prices. It will be when I run out of something now before purchasing again.

 

[dantiff2]

For those of us that have a good supply of powder and would buy a little more when funds were available, this is going to stop now at these new prices. It will be when I run out of something now before purchasing again.

Don't ever run out! That's the worst case scenario because you will be forced to buy under the most extreme of circumstances. Always try to stay ahead, even if it's just one pound.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Don't ever run out! That's the worst case scenario because you will be forced to buy under the most extreme of circumstances. Always try to stay ahead, even if it's just one pound.

That’s for sure, but I think you know what I meant by some of this powder is going to sit on the shelves at new elevated prices.

 

[dantiff2]

What I mean is that what goes up must come down some, maybe not to exactly where it was years ago but lower than what the increase is. Didn't that happen over the last 10 years or so with primers? Or am I just dreaming? View attachment 1513082

Inflation and cost of living are not Gravity.. This is wrong and no, primers have not gone down. I used to buy them for 25$/1000 15 years ago. They have not and WILL NOT ever be that price again. Gas used to be .95$ gallon when I got my first car/job. Won't ever happen again! Buy now, what you can and when you can afford it. Don't hold out or you will be the one without!

 

[dantiff2]

That’s for sure, but I think you know what I meant by some of this powder is going to sit on the shelves at new elevated prices.

Think about that for a second. The store isn't making that much profit on it to begin with. It's not their fault the middle man raised the price. If they (mom pop shop) don't sell it, that means they won't be buyin gmore from their supplier. If they don't purchase more, than the supplier isn't buying more from the powder manufacturer. If they don't buy more powder, the manufacturer will simply stop making it. Want proof? Just look at the amount of different powders that is no longer being produced in the last five years...
Dan

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Think about that for a second. The store isn't making that much profit on it to begin with. It's not their fault the middle man raised the price. If they (mom pop shop) don't sell it, that means they won't be buyin gmore from their supplier. If they don't purchase more, than the supplier isn't buying more from the powder manufacturer. If they don't buy more powder, the manufacturer will simply stop making it. Want proof? Just look at the amount of different powders that is no longer being produced in the last five years...
Dan

Well Hodgdon has cut their own throat now then, is about where I stand now.

 

[davidjoe]

I think we’re just gravy on top of the military contracts and they wouldn’t even care if we stopped.

I think you’re right and I’ll add on to that. We hand loaders are actually a tiny market, but we are like the priests of this hallowed tradition that live off in a convent, unable to make quite everything they need, which the grocers, truckers and farmers near town aren’t going to let starve, out of the goodness of their hearts.

You cannot punish this industry by holding on to your dollars. You can only make it easier for some gun neutral business grad to make the case for closing down a division.

Let’s take the example of Nammo, of which Lapua is a (sporting) division, the small one. We’d have to be tone deaf to think their business model relies on our hobby. Is it not evident they are ringing the register and paying the cashier for our sporadic .04 cent purchases? Bofors and General Dynamics probably don’t want to mess with powder at all, let alone 25 different gradations of the lowest margin product they spend time on. You guys do know what one cannon on one Stryker fetches, GD rolls out these SUV’s for the cost of an Abrams. They make money on our hobby like we make money on it.

We aren’t important to the steel industry either, which shouldn’t be news. We are probably the pickiest, most troublesome, unprofitable customers of steel bar stock they deal with. Us and the knife guys.

Our problem with powder worldwide as hobbyists is that we watched this get centralized. Fellas, this stuff starts as cellulose. Chinese chemists got it working thousands of years ago. Some people can turn plant fibers and pulp into a passable $100 super note, in a garage. We seem stumped to make something that wants to burn by its very nature, useful, for the activity we care more about than eating.

Our powder producers make the most expensive objects known to man and governments alike, of every stripe and color. We don’t source our competition barrels from Remington, why rely on powder from an even bigger, less specialized source. Our powder is like using a 6 star kitchen and master chef to spend time snapping the stems off beans, boil eggs and steam rice. I’m not saying it’s easy to do as stirring stew, but it’s not harder than making an action, perfect barrels and bullets that shoot through the same hole, is it?

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I think you’re right and I’ll add on to that. We hand loaders are actually a tiny market, but we are like the priests of this hallowed tradition that live off in a convent, unable to make quite everything they need, which the grocers, truckers and farmers near town aren’t going to let starve, out of the goodness of their hearts.

You cannot punish this industry by holding on to your dollars. You can only make it easier for some gun neutral business grad to make the case for closing down a division.

Let’s take the example of Nammo, of which Lapua is a (sporting) division, the small one. We’d have to be tone deaf to think their business model relies on our hobby. Is it not evident they are ringing the register and paying the cashier for our sporadic .04 cent purchases? Bofors and General Dynamics probably don’t want to mess with powder at all, let alone 25 different gradations of the lowest margin product they spend time on. You guys do know what one cannon on one Stryker fetches, GD rolls out these SUV’s for the cost of an Abrams. They make money on our hobby like we make money on it.

We aren’t important to the steel industry either, which shouldn’t be news. We are probably the pickiest, most troublesome, unprofitable customers of steel bar stock they deal with. Us and the knife guys.

Our problem with powder worldwide as hobbyists is that we watched this get centralized. Fellas, this stuff starts as cellulose. Chinese chemists got it working thousands of years ago. Some people can turn plant fibers and pulp into a passable $100 super note, in a garage. We seem stumped to make something that wants to burn by its very nature, useful, for the activity we care more about than eating.

Our powder producers make the most expensive objects known to man and governments alike, of every stripe and color. We don’t source our competition barrels from Remington, why rely on powder from an even bigger, less specialized source. Our powder is like using a 6 star kitchen and master chef to spend time snapping the stems off beans, boil eggs and steam rice. I’m not saying it’s easy to do as stirring stew, but it’s not harder than making an action, perfect barrels and bullets that shoot through the same hole, is it?

David, I’m having a hard time understanding if your saying if we just need to pony on up and pay the new prices or someone else should be able to produce powder too?

 

[dantiff2]

Well Hodgdon has cut their own throat now then, is about where I stand now.

Agree 100% but we'll bare the consequences

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Agree 100% but we'll bare the consequences

Now I understand better when I saw old timers corresponding with each other in written form and ending with, War is Hell.

 

[6.5 forever]

My local shop has Varget, H4350 and H4831SC at $50 and some Reloader 16 at $65. That is a big difference.

That will go up on their next delivery.

 

[Larry Koch]

It all may be moat, gun ranges will close if no one is there to shoot.
Unless you live in Chicago.

 

[davidjoe]

David, I’m having a hard time understanding if your saying if we just need to pony on up and pay the new prices or someone else should be able to produce powder too?

We sure can’t afford to lose them before we have a proven source domestically, preferably several. I know many guys remember when Walt Berger was a small bullet maker, for his, then recreational use products. Its wasn’t that long ago. Have to think that’s a good model.